Leica's "permanent solution" to the M8 problems? Buy IR filters!

Apparently, word came out that the only permanent solution Leica is offering to the magenta cast of the

M8 is to use IR filters. Just like many of us apprehended. Also, that it might require the use of coded

lenses.

 

I just can't believe this. If this is true - and I'm afraid it is because it is so much in the logic

of the past weeks - now we will have to BUY THEIR filters, BUY THEIR coded lenses, or

have our lenses coded BY THEM. AT A COST, of course.

 

Don't tell me they discovered they couldn't find a hardware or software fix in the course of last week?

So, the truth is that they just pretended they were looking for a fix. In fact, they knew for a long time

the filters

were the only permanent solution. They just waited until as many orders as possible would

come in before being forced to finally tell us the truth. Remember their hypocritical

"message to customers" of a week ago? They were not even supposed to say anything until

next week, and then announce some "plan for a fix". In the meantime they assured us that they were

working on a permanent fix,

that they would make sure our "investment would be protected", and they thanked us for

our "support". What BS!

 

Leica lied to their customers. Plain and simple.

 

Harsh words? You bet. They scr... me!

 

It's not the M8's defects I can't stand, it's the darn lies. This M8 saga is going to turn into

a real disaster.

wow. We have all expressed our concerns and disapointment in the way things are being handled by Leica. However, should we wait for an offical statemnt before jumping to conclusions? Did you get this information from Leica or is it just a rumor?

I think your use of the words "apparently" and "if this is true" says it all. It's better to not speculate on an answer that everyone will soon have. I agree that they may have been deceptive, but for now it's unwise to fuel the fires with non-information.

I've read of this as well, but can you point us to an official announcement of any sort from

Leica to this effect?

 

Frustration is understandable. But accusations of institutional lying and what amounts to

conspiracy

theory really aren't helping anyone except the individuals venting.

 

One way or the other, you got to where you could afford this camera without having one;

you can probably live a while longer without it. The current problematic M8 release is

nothing more than a false start. If it doesn't kill Leica, we'll all be better for it.

 

All of us, save those who swear off the brand altogether because of their anger over the

M8's early release issues.

Bernard, just out of curiosity, if Leica had announced before the M8 was introduced that the best way to use M lenses on a digital body involved using an IR cut filter in front of the lens, would you have been this angry?

 

To clarify my question, if the combination of M8 + M lens + Filter produces files at least as good as any other combination involving legacy lenses designed for the 35mm format, will you still be angry?

 

I'm as perplexed as you are by Leica's handling of this situation, but after taking a few deep breaths and reading the reports of initial users who have tried the filter solution, I'm fairly hopeful about the prospects of the M8's success.

What's the big deal with magenta? I saw some M8 samples and they look great

<s>Bernard</s> Potential canon 7D purchasers, just out of curiosity, if <s>Leica</s>

canon had announced before the <s>M8</s> 7D was introduced that the best way to use

<s>M</s> canon lenses on a digital body involved using an IR cut filter in front of the lens,

would you have been this angry?<P>

 

I suspect the uproar would be deafening and few would choose to subsidize such a foolish

product introduction...

I really doubt a Leica rangefinder user would care very much what canon did or said.

<I>I really doubt a Leica rangefinder user would care very much what canon did or said.

</i><P>

 

But apparently they do, many citing canon/nikon past goofs to justify leica's flawed

introduction.

Nobody is saying Leica doesn't have to fix the problems, they do. Its just not the end of the world that some internet users seem to think it is.

 

Using Canon or Nikon camera faults do not justify the M8's problems, they just show by example that a flawed camera at its introduction can be fixed to be pretty darn good.

"I really doubt a Leica rangefinder user would care very much what canon did or said." <p>Yes, because as we all know those user groups are mutually exclusive of course!

"But apparently they do, many citing canon/nikon past goofs to justify leica's flawed introduction."

 

How can that be? Canon and Nikon never make mistakes. Just ask Brad. Come to think of it, why don't you go haunt the Canon and Nikon forums. You obviously don't have any experience or knowledge about Leica products. You just come here to bash Leica. And then get incensed when someone calls you for bashing Leica. Go in peace.

Bernard, where did this word come out? If it was from Leica, this is news to me. Why can't you just wait a week for Leica's announcement. You really sound like a chicken without its head.

Here's the deal: on another Leica forum, a guy says he was told the sad news at a Leica

event in Paris. Granted, he says "To be confirmed".There is also this other guy who says he

talked to a Leica customer service

representative in Solms, who said that they will start fixing the already sold bodies FOR

BANDING on Monday, provided customers return them. He apparently said nothing about

the magenta cast, which, I'm afraid, is indicative of the absence of a definitive hardware

solution.

 

Come on, guys, we all know this has all the chances of being unfortunately true. Stop

putting

your head in the sand. I have asked several times, here and elsewhere, why Leica hadn't

halted all shipments of the M8 to fix the magenta cast problem. I think the answer is

pretty obvious:

because it would have served no purpose, the solution being to add filters.

 

Now, Jonhatan, to answer your question, of course I wouldn't have been that angry if I had

known in advance that I needed to add IR filters to exploit the maximum capabilities of the

M8. At least, I would have made an informed decision to buy or not to buy. Would I have

bought the M8 knowing that? If I didn't have to buy coded lenses, or if I did't have to have

my actual lenses coded (which remains to be clarified), I guess I would have, yes. Maybe.

But it's a hypothetical and entirely different situation. Here, I have commited to buying the

M8 on false pretense by Leica.

 

Again, it's the lies I can't stomach. Lies that Leica maintained even as the public started to

voice its concerns, and then straight out expressed outrage.

 

And, even if they did find a permanent hardware cure to the magenta cast (which I totally

doubt) they have already lied the day the first M8 hit the market with banding and color

cast that Leica were perfectly aware of.

Sure, Eliot, sure. Call me names. That is certainly proof of your being right.

 

Yes, we'll talk again in a week, after Leica big announcement.

Oh, and BTW, there is also this forumer here, who says in another thread:

 

" I heard exactly the same news today directly from Leica (tele call) in Solms.

Namely that IR Cut filters is the permanent solution to the magenta issue, and that

banding will be solved by hardware change in about 3 mths time, cameras need to be sent

to Solms for this.

 

Again not official but from a Leica product person... "

<b>Bernard</b><i> Come on, guys, we all know this has all the chances of being unfortunately true. </i><p>

Well, is it worth a gentleman's bet? Lay it out in plain words, and a fixed finish date and I will seriously consider it. <p>

That said, I'll bet you can sell your M8 straight from the unopened box if you get it soon enough. One sold on the auction site last week for something like $5700 plus shipping.

<p>

I do understand the feeling of being betrayed, lied to. My sympathies.<p>

Now, about that bet...

IF the "solution" is filters and obligatory coded lenses, there can be arguments over many aspects except one: it will cost Leica many, many M8 sales. Some people are anti-filter. Some people expected to use their older non-codable lenses. Some people expected to use CV and/or Zeiss lenses. Some people barely have the finances for an M8 but not for coding and buying filters to the tune of >$200 per each one of their lenses...and that is IF all their lenses can be coded. Some people expected to be able to use lenses with effective FOV of 21mm without shelling out >$3000 for the new wide Tri-Elmar. Some people are just PO'd on principle and ethics issues.

 

Some people will stick with an M8 no matter the sacrifice, but many, many will not. IF this is Leica's solution, the M8 may hobble along making great pictures for those people, but in terms of its sales performance Leica is in DEEP trouble.

 

As for Nikon and Canon, even if their next model were to be as big a dud as the M8, people with a set of lenses have other choices besides shooting film or switching brands, so a dud would not likely drive them into bankruptcy. This was Leica's one and only shot.

 

Those are the facts as dispassionately as I can put them. I am sad and to a degree astonished, as a long-time Leica fan and collector, to see them keep sinking deeper and deeper into this quagmire. I'm not quite as livid as Bernard, though, because I easly cancelled my order, I'm not being stiffed by my dealer.

So how long before they go under? I give em another year or so to swirl the drain before some Asian company buys up the tradmark and starts slapping "Leica" on mass produced digi-cams. Oh well, give them credit for trying. I think Leica just foud out why small time photo manufacturers with limited R+D dollars can't compete with the likes of Canon or Nikon either financially or on a quality basis. The digital road is a tough one to hoe and Leica's product was very much an expensive niche item to begin with, never mind the fact it came complete with a host of apparently serious defects. Truly a camera only a collector could love.

In September Leica appointed a new Director for Corporate Planning and Strategy (new department).

 

I am speculating that he is probably responsible for the rather un-characteristic behaviour of Leica in the M8 launch.

"I give em another year or so to swirl the drain before some Asian company buys up the tradmark and starts slapping "Leica" on mass produced digi-cams."

 

You mean, instead of Leica paying some Asian company to slap their trademark on mass produced digi-cams :-)

 

"Truly a camera only a collector could love."

 

Take it from a collector, that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Recall the flare flame wars on the M7 on this forum a few years back? I have an M7.

Bought it cheap during the frequent flare wars. Still a workhorse for me. Love that AE

thing too over some of the "manual" Leicas I have.

 

The Nikon DSLR brick is trouble free. Read this if your're frustrated with some

Kodachrome like magenta cast. :) )))) )))

 

http://www.digitaldarrell.com/DDBlog-DDsTakeOnD2xAFProblems.asp

In spite of my misgivings about Leica, I was about to treat myself to a new CM in burgandy that I've been lusting after for a while. An important factor was the 3 year warranty being offered. Now I'm wondering if they will be in business in 3 years. I think I will pass on the CM.

 

I hear a hammering noise, the sound of the last nail being driven into Leica's coffin.

What matters for Leica is to sell camera outside the circle of Leica aficionados. Leica has to bring in and convince existing users of Canon or Nikon DSLR that the M8 is a better alternative. Now imagine a DSLR user ready to sweep her plastic card for an M8 being told that, by the way, to get the best out of the camera you need to get an Infra Red filter, otherwise you might encounter some magenta or purple colors on some fabrics...the filter is $100. How many will run away? Most of them have used DSLR or SLR and have never encountered such a problem and never heard anyone with such problems, even on their $300 digicam. Even though this would be the best solution to get the best picture in the world, it would need a lot of convincing and marketing to bring in customers by the thousands.

 

I was on the line for a M8, but last week I decided I ll wait a few more months, whatever the solution is. I canceled my order and got my downpayment back. In the meantime....films have never been so good!

If it's a credible camera, honestly intended, the real professionals will use it, just like they once used M3. If it isn't, they'll use Nikons and Canons, as always. Don't prejudge, just look at the sales in three months. Three.