Leica Taking Severe Financial Blow for 2005

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by 35mmdelux, Apr 5, 2005.

  1. As a follow-up to my previous communication about Leica's financial
    woes, it has come to my attention that the fiscal year 2005 financial
    blow is severe. While the company remains solvent - with assets
    exceeding liabilities, worldwide sales have declined to the point
    where Leica management has pointed out that such losses will lead to
    a loss in the amount of half of the registered share capital of Leica
    Camera AG. For non-accountants, this means that the company will lose
    half its value in the stock market. Not a good thing.

    Because of the poor performance and lack of management credibility on
    the part of financiers, as of several weeks ago bank credit lines
    were terminated. Generally, the termination of credit lines is the
    first step in a bankruptcy. Thus, a shareholder Extraordinary General
    Meeting is scheduled for May 31, 2005, to decide on what financial
    measures can be implemented to try to turn the company around.

    What stuns me most is that this small elite branded company can be
    brought to the brink of financial disaster. For starters, in order to
    turn the company around I would recommend the board immediately fire
    Leicas vice-president of finance and the vice-president of marketing.

    Paul Angulo, CPA
     
  2. Long nap, Paul?
     
  3. Liberace was gay! I never saw that one coming...
     
  4. rj

    rj

    He's not gay, just really really happy.
     
  5. I had no idea... I double checked these figures on my Bowmar Brain -- astounding!
     
  6. Thanks, Paul. Now go back to sleep and contact us again next year.
     
  7. I'd say that if they survived over the last hundred years or so, then they'll go on for another year or two to come...
     
  8. "What stuns me most is that this small elite branded company can be brought to the brink of financial disaster" - their whole company is/was based upon a product which used 35mm film - a now or soon to be osolete medium for image capture for the mass market.
     
  9. You are NOT doing my taxes.
     
  10. "For non-accountants, this means that the company will lose half its value in the stock market."

    Rubbish. Losing half (or any other portion) of its net worth does not have any direct effect on a company's share price. Share prices are set by the willingness of an investor to pay. A few years back there were any number of internet-related companies with only nominal shareholder equity whose shares nonetheless were valued, briefly, in the stratosphere.
     
  11. what this thread needs (at least for the purposes of ensuring deletion)is a fuller inquiry into precisely what that "CPA" at the end of paul's name REALLY stands for.
     
  12. is that it is at least theoretically possible some day that I might be able to afford to buy the
    whole Leica company (via purchase of 100% of its common equity) but I will never again be
    able to afford to buy a new one of its M cameras.
     
  13. Before you ridicule you might want to analyze the financials and know what you're talking about. One of the worst financial cases I've ever seen, ever.
    Leica AG is puny compared to the finances I work on daily.
    I didn't realize ignorance ws so pervasive.

    Get the facts before you put hoof in mouth.

    As for me, I'm more interested in taking pictures. See ya!
     
  14. Paul, FYI, Leica periodically sends out e-mail announcements to its fans and customers. I received the very same information you have conveyed in this thread approximately 2 months ago. I'm sure most of the members of this forum have already received the information as well. Those of us on Leicas' mailing list also received this news by postal mail, long ago. The problem has also been cited in Leicas' LFI publication, I'm told. Best regards, Bill
     
  15. rj

    rj

    Paul, if you are so interested in taking photos, than why are you starting a thread on a forum that essentially repeats an issue that has been beaten to death, and then in turn attacking others. Shouldn't you be out taking photos instead.
     
  16. What is the current market capitalization of Leica AG?
    (I think this is determined by current price per share X number of shares outstanding.)
     
  17. Well, I don?t think anyone here on the Leica Forum could accuse Paul of ?Insider Trading? like ol? Marta Stewart huh? ;-)) Lar
     
  18. Give the guy a break ;-)

    He's been doing taxes since January until now...
     
  19. Does this decrease the resale value of the "Ein Stuck" models to like $1,500 USD?
     
  20. This ridicule of a post indicating earnest concern (however delayed) for Leica's survival is nothing short of childish. So what if Paul didn't consult the archives before posting? He's hardly the first such sinner in the history of this forum.
     
  21. I've been waiting eagerly, for the Charles/Camilla... M7 "Royal Wedding Commemorative"!
     
  22. A Charles/Camilla commemorative model would need a 'stealth' mode.
     
  23. Thank you for your kind and noble words. I am surprised by the level of attack towards me from this community of photographers, especially by those labeled as heroes by the Forum.

    I was not aware of the archives since I am new here. The attacks are intended to silence the individual. The very thing Americans fight against in IRAQ and worldwide.

    I have worked with many photographers mostly in Hollywood and I have always done so with mutual respect as an artist and a professional.

    Again, thank you Sir, and I thank those who have contributed so positively during my week on this site. Semper Fi. Paul Angulo, CPA
     
  24. Paul,

    I hope you will hang around the forum for a while. There are a lot of personal attacks and some "harmless" sarcasm. But there is also a lot of information here as well as some great Leica gear to be sold.

    Try to ignore the bad comments...it's easy just to scroll over them and if they get TOO bad, the poster gets banned. That cools things down pretty quickly.
     
  25. Now is not a time to worry. So many Leica gearheads have 4 or more bodies. With so many being sold to buy digital gear and the aging domographic of the owners myself included in a few years there will be no need to produce any more $3,000 manual camera bodies.
     
  26. Nice job guys. You probably just drove off another well intentioned leica photographer who was new to the forum. His post was well intentioned and received rudely. What happened to giving people the benifit of the doubt and treating people with respect. No wonder this forum has the reputation of being the nastiest forum on the net. I am really surprised at some of you. You owe this guy an apology. Lets see how many of you step up to the plate and publicly set it right.
     
  27. Paul,Welcome to the forum. Sorry if we offended you. It wasn't really personal. Just a little fun. If we went over the line for you then I apologize.
     
  28. I made the mistake of commenting on waht a nice reserved forum this is. Won't do that again. Leica is in a pinch. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. The M5 is a case in point. Personally, I think they will survive. They have returned from the grave B4.
     
  29. jtk

    jtk

    Being brought to the brink of bancrupcy isn't as rewarding as actually becoming bancrupt for interested predators, such as certain managers who work as agents for venture capitalists and investment bankers.

    The "brink" isn't the point, though it does often drive stock prices down to attractive levels. When acquired, the new management cleans house. Obviously anybody with a management title, especially in marketing, is toast.

    More intentionally and in more modern fashion, sometimes the company actually files bancruptcy, in other words stiffs good people who have foolishly extended them credit (with side deals favoring certain creditors). THEN, after they've "discharged their debt" or otherwise backed away from obligations, insider/outsider combinations make out like the bandits that they are. Watch for new leadership and hold on to your wallets.
     
  30. John Elder wrote:

    "... No wonder this forum has the reputation of being the nastiest forum on the net ..."

    You got that right! :)
     
  31. gib

    gib

    If your news and commentary were a little fresher than they might have smelled a little sweeter to this bunch who keenly appreciate the Leica manufactured products both old and new and future. When I read your "Question", I laughed out loud. Later this week I will finish a roll of FP4 in my IIIf shot mainly with my Elmar 50mm f3.5. I wish I could afford an M7 and current 35mm lens. But I can't. I hope you get a chance to shoot your Leica or Leica-like rangefinder camera and show us some photos...regards from Ontario, slowly emerging from that high contrast white covering, often called snow.
     
  32. Paul:

    I think your problem is that you are taking a myopic look at Leica's financial statements, and have concluded that the sky is falling! Leica's financial problems are not new. Almost every year or so over the past 30 years we have read about Leica's woes and how they have barely managed to stay solvent and out of bankruptcy court. Your recommendations to fire the VPs of Marketing and Finance are laughable! Leica's problems are not caused by those two people! Leica's problems and possible soultions have been debated by Leica users ad nauseum in this and other forums. P.S. I have a PhD in Finance and analyze companies for a living (among other things!) :)
     
  33. Financial problems are not new to Leica. The company has survived the WW2 and more seriously the crisis of M5/ SL2 era 1975, when the Leitz family lost control. They have to finish the R line and concentrate on M range . They should consider outsourcing MP / M7 production to Far East to reduce the body prices . Then people could have some spare change to splurge on the 'best lenses' made by anyone.
     
  34. I agree with the decision to fire some incompetence people. What they need is to hire somebody like Lee Iacocca to heads up the company. Or somebody like Kobayashi at Cosina for steering Leica towards consumer needs.
     
  35. "They should consider outsourcing MP / M7 production to Far East to reduce the body prices.
    Is this what you have in mind, Imran?
    00BkVy-22721284.jpg
     
  36. Yep, there are some seriously nasty people on this forum, things have not changed. I think I know why, but I'd rather not mention the reason. It's a good thing I no longer post any messages, it's just not worth it.
     
  37. Paul, your only 'sin' was posting information that was already old news here on the forum. But what earned you real scorn was speaking from a position of some expertise. Since, on the internet, all opinions are equal, nothing is more threatening to the self-esteem of the hive-mind than real experience or knowledge. So out it goes.
     
  38. A bit late into this one, but......

    Chiswick John wrote above

    >their whole company is/was based upon a product which used 35mm film - a now or
    soon to be osolete medium for image capture for the mass market.

    Since when has Leica ever been "mass market"? Even in the company's hayday, that label
    isn't one that could have been seriously applied. I do have my own pet theory as to why
    the sales of Leica film cameras have declined so markedly (those of Leica digital items
    have, according to the BJP IIRC, risen by a similar percentage), but this thread isn't the
    place.
     
  39. Paul, If you scroll down the page which comes up when you click on the Leica Forum link, you will find the archive of Leica Company Information, which contains a number of discussions of exactly the information your post covers.
    It's customary to search the archives before posting a new question to determine whether the same thing has been beaten to death previously.
    Forum Guideline #7 spells all this out.
     
  40. a simple "ring ring" would have sufficed =)
     
  41. "nothing is more threatening to the self-esteem of the hive-mind than real
    experience or knowledge..."<p>
    aw c'mon Kevin, lighten up. Paul got some gentle ribbing. It would happen in
    most other forums if anyone used rather officious language such as "my
    previous communication..." and "it has come to my attention." I'm sure Paul is
    a great accountant, but that tone sounds pompous when it delivers news
    that's a couple of months old, combined with qualifications placed after one's
    name. I certainly regret my "witticism' in that it was the start of a deluge, but in
    real life you'll encounter worse.
    <p> Paul, sorry for any offence, but if you consider that this issue has been
    discussed here for weeks, if not months, with endless debating what the
    company should do, you might find the reaction explicable...
     
  42. I disagree with your assertion that the Forum's mob mentality is explicable. If it is, then I'm definitely in the wrong place. The mob, including the so-called hero of the group Roger Michel, might want to read your own Rule #6 - Treat others with respect. If its old news to you, then just blow it off man. Why slander the individual and their integrity?

    Your comment - "The real world" - Growing up in San Francisco's Mission District I know a little about the real world, Sir. I had to learn to fight when I was a little kid and deal with the police, predators, and drunk bastards, among others. After the Viet Nam War I lived in my car because I could barely afford college. I got lucky and became a CPA for a major multi-billion dollar conglomerate ? from the slums of America to the boardroom. Does that make me pompous?

    I?m not the one that should be embarrassed by yesterday?s spew. Your Leica mob can take that credit.

    Nevertheless, there are a few good people on the Forum who demonstrated their decency and have contributed to my knowledge. I am a dedicated photographer and if I have to step in the gutter once in a while to get the shot, then I?ll just have to wipe it off afterwards.

    Semper Fi.
     
  43. aw c'mon Kevin, lighten up. Paul got some gentle ribbing.
    Or a hazing from the sorority girls, take your pick.
     
  44. Paul, I didn't attack your character, nor did I say you were a pompous person. I
    suggested the tone of your language was pompous, in this context. I'm glad
    you've achieved such a successful career; to have done so, you must
    understand about tailoring your message, and its delivery, to the audience,
    and I'm suggesting you didn't do so here. I look forward to seeing your
    financial analyses of genuine news from Leica, and your photos also.
     
  45. would recommend the board immediately fire Leicas vice-president of finance and the vice-president of marketing.

    Cool or what. Hey, i'm up for offers.
     
  46. lets move on, take some fotos, and work that camera.

    Regards, PAA
     
  47. i just love when new people post here, specially the ones trying to understand the twisted mind and motivations of Leica management and creditors.

    welcome Paul, I still get creamed every time !! :)
     
  48. Well, stupid companies don't last forever. The MP should be Zeiss Icon priced or even less. Who's going to spend all that money? I almost did, but then I found that I'd have to spend twice that for a 50mm lens to go with it. BMW got rid of their twins sometime back. Then they had to bring them back fast because people didn't like their 3 and 4 cylinder motorcycles. Why not bring back the CL but make it better and for cheaper? China would be happy to build it for Leica.
     
  49. With a user base composed of the likes of some who post here it's no surprise really that Leica is going belly up.

    If I owned the company and knew it was being used by some of those here I'd close shop and run the other way... fast.

    Leica users - the lovers of second hand gear, and second hand sarcasm.
     
  50. Re: "Leica users - the lovers of second hand gear, and second hand sarcasm."

    Second hand gear because the new Leica stuff is so very expensive. That's one of the reasons why I suggested China. The second hand sarcasm is actually irony and not meant for the ironically challenged. Posting our woes solves the problem of having to go out to buy a new one; and with forums members always selling something Leica, why throw out good money for the new? ;*)
     
  51. Oben - aka the pot that calls the kettle black - you are one peculiar character.
     
  52. "... I got lucky and became a CPA for a major multi-billion dollar conglomerate ..."
    As you sit in your plush office and contemplate billions and billions of dollars, can you spare $25 for photo.net?
     
  53. Now that would be a pretty poor investment by anyone's standards.
     

Share This Page