Leica or Leica copy?

Can anyone tell me the identity of this camera, I can't find an exact photo or information on it anywhere, I found photos of the Leica cameras in the 4 digit serial no. but none match this camera, I suspect it is a copy. Can anybody help me?

The markings on the camera - the top Leica D.R.P. Ermst Leitz Wetzlar No. 3371 The body is black leather and the metal parts are a tarnished looking brassed/black

Amanda

 

 

 

No Leica has a threaded shutter release - it's a fake, probably a FED, dressed up.

John, thank you so much I looked through all the Russian copies and couldn't find a look alike.

Regards

Amanda

Yep a Soviet-era copy of the Leica II dressed up to look like a real Leica.

 

FED or very early ZORKI.

 

The reason it looks so tarnished is because they've stripped off the chrome finish down to the brass, to make it resemble the rare gold-plated Leicas.

Hi Rick, thanks for the info. It is the brass look that made it so hard to find on any web site I have looked at, even the leather or leatherette has a gold black finish up close up, now that you mention the stripping down of the chrome maybe the original camera was black all over because there are light and dark blackish marks all over the metal?? Do they fake the no.? as this has a relatively low no. ?

They made these to sell them as Leicas to unsuspecting tourist.

 

The original name/logo is sanded off and re-engraved with the new "Leica" logo and information. Presumably the same goes with the serial number.

Before the sanding process could start, the chrome has to come off and afterwards the brass is re-chromed.

As far as I know all original factory fresh Zorki & FED cameras were always sold with chrome finish.

 

The fakes are sold in all kinds of fancy paint schemes and/or engravings. Some folks like to collect those for their outrageous looks alone.

 

I'm partial to the ones painted in Russian/Ukrainian folk art myself.

But I would be hard pressed to spend more than $50 on one.

Thanks again, I find the history of all vintage cameras from this era very interesting from all aspects. Wish I had all your knowledge!

As a general rule, if you have to ask whether it's faked, it is. :rolleyes:

 

Mind you , some of the false ones can be decent user cameras and the lenses are often good, even if their markings are bogus

Some time about 6 years ago a friend "allowed" me 5 minutes with his M-3. Hooked I was on RF cameras after 4 decades of SLRs & view cameras. My retirement income did not allow a real Leica G.A.S. attack, so I started with the Russian Leica based cameras. As JD mentioned above, some of their III copies are good knock-offs. The Fed-2 &3 and Zorki-4s are M stylings & give me great service on a pensioners budget. Just be sure any purchase has had a good CLA. Aloha, Bill

As a general rule, if you have to ask whether it's faked, it is. :rolleyes:

 

Mind you , some of the false ones can be decent user cameras and the lenses are often good, even if their markings are bogus

Some time about 6 years ago a friend "allowed" me 5 minutes with his M-3. Hooked I was on RF cameras after 4 decades of SLRs & view cameras. My retirement income did not allow a real Leica G.A.S. attack, so I started with the Russian Leica based cameras. As JD mentioned above, some of their III copies are good knock-offs. The Fed-2 &3 and Zorki-4s are M stylings & give me great service on a pensioners budget. Just be sure any purchase has had a good CLA. Aloha, Bill

Thanks Bill, I am just learning and you will get a laugh but what is a CLA?

Fortunately I didn't pay anything for the camera, so nothing to loose and I am much wiser just from the input on this thread.

Can anyone tell me the identity of this camera, I can't find an exact photo or information on it anywhere, I found photos of the Leica cameras in the 4 digit serial no. but none match this camera, I suspect it is a copy. Can anybody help me?

The markings on the camera - the top Leica D.R.P. Ermst Leitz Wetzlar No. 3371 The body is black leather and the metal parts are a tarnished looking brassed/black

Amanda

 

 

Mein Gott, You've got a SEVEN Million Euro camera.

Er, never Mind....

CLA is the initials for CLEAN LUBE ADJUST. This is the process of checking your camera for near factory new condition. Any camera with +5 years of operations is a good choice for a CLA. Even Nikons & Leicas wear the internal machinery. In the case of my Former Soviet Union (FSU) cameras, the questionable build quality, even new, compared to Wester & Eastern standards, makes the purchase of these cameras questionable to future reliability. I only buy these cameras from one source (Ukraine) & all have had a CLA, actually a rebuild. Of 8 cameras over the last 5 years, 7 are still alive. . .the other was destroyed by me in a fall around a building site. Private mail me if you are interested in the mans Ebay site name. Aloha, Bill

I really think your camera will not be in functional mode, nor worth a CLA to get it there, but if you could take the time to get all the grime off it and buff it up to a shinny condition, you would have a nice item to show next to the Leica you will most likely get if you continue to associate with Range Finder freaks like us. . . Yes, this is your only warning ! Enjoy & Aloha, Bill

HI Bill I already tried to clean it up, spent so long on the camera but the blackish haze over the brass just won't budge. I did read an article somewhere that mentioned that there were a few of the early Russian cameras made with this look but I can't even remember where I read this, it might have been on the Soviet Cams site. I will look it up again, I think it will go in my too hard basket. I just don't know how you get all this knowledge, it just does my head in!! Thanks again

I am 76 yy & have been a grey cell sponge for about 70 of those. Aloha, Bill

HI Bill I already tried to clean it up, spent so long on the camera but the blackish haze over the brass just won't budge. I did read an article somewhere that mentioned that there were a few of the early Russian cameras made with this look but I can't even remember where I read this, it might have been on the Soviet Cams site. I will look it up again, I think it will go in my too hard basket. I just don't know how you get all this knowledge, it just does my head in!! Thanks again

If there were any original brass-finish Feds or Zorkis I imagine they are now very rare. Leica also apparently shipped cameras with a brass finish on occasion to special order (someone posted about one here a while back, a sort of 'poor man's Luxus'). But Soviet cameras with the chrome removed by forgers are very common. As Rick notes above, this is going to happen anyway if you grind off the original engravings. The forger can either strip off all the chrome to match, and hope the camera is mistaken for a rare gold-plated Leica Luxus model, or re-plate in chrome. Some of the more attractive fakes have highly polished brass, but whoever did this one hasn't bothered - either they concluded it wasn't worth the effort, or thought an 'antique' finish would look more 'authentic'. It might be fun to go through the various Fed and Zorki models on sovietcams to see if you can tell exactly which version this one started out as:

 

Soviet and Russian Cameras - Fed

Soviet and Russian Cameras - Zorki

 

Unfortunately the fake engravings won't help!

Untouched versions generally are in better working condition than the modified ones in my experience.

Usually the shutter curtains are in poor condition and they tend to overwind the roller springs to make the shutter sound snappy.

 

Of course a freshly serviced one can operate perfectly fine. I love my Zorki and FED-NKVD cameras :)

 

A polish with good ol' Brasso should definitely bring out the shine. But to get in all the nooks and crannies it would require a partial tear-down of the camera.

If there were any original brass-finish Feds or Zorkis I imagine they are now very rare. Leica also apparently shipped cameras with a brass finish on occasion to special order (someone posted about one here a while back, a sort of 'poor man's Luxus'). But Soviet cameras with the chrome removed by forgers are very common. As Rick notes above, this is going to happen anyway if you grind off the original engravings. The forger can either strip off all the chrome to match, and hope the camera is mistaken for a rare gold-plated Leica Luxus model, or re-plate in chrome. Some of the more attractive fakes have highly polished brass, but whoever did this one hasn't bothered - either they concluded it wasn't worth the effort, or thought an 'antique' finish would look more 'authentic'. It might be fun to go through the various Fed and Zorki models on sovietcams to see if you can tell exactly which version this one started out as:

 

Soviet and Russian Cameras - Fed

Soviet and Russian Cameras - Zorki

 

Unfortunately the fake engravings won't help!

I wi

Thanks Richard, yes I will go through the Soviet Cam sight and try to identify the original model of the dirty black/brass camera. I find that site very helpful. I have many of these FED, Zorki and Leica Copies to identify, it is doing my head in!! I spent 3 hours on research tonight to finally identify a 1 FED type 2 When putting them up for sale I guess you would have to be absolutely positive about what you are advertising. The listed prices are all over the place, the one I did identify prices on eBay ranged from $200 to $2500 why is that?

Probably someone is wanting to milk another who is not knowledgeable about these FSU cameras. I did see the Ebay ads & deem them a rip off. If you do an Ebay search for "Fed-1 CLA" you will see (3) Fed-1's with the -10 collapsible lenses for just under $120 (USD) delivered (US). These cameras have been CLA'd & are offered by the same Ukrainian fellow from whom I have purchased all 8 of my Fed & Zorki "collection". They work. Any one who knows a Leica always stops me when my Fed-2 is around my neck. . .the Fed-1 would probably be a show stopper. Aloha, Bill

Probably someone is wanting to milk another who is not knowledgeable about these FSU cameras. I did see the Ebay ads & deem them a rip off. If you do an Ebay search for "Fed-1 CLA" you will see (3) Fed-1's with the -10 collapsible lenses for just under $120 (USD) delivered (US). These cameras have been CLA'd & are offered by the same Ukrainian fellow from whom I have purchased all 8 of my Fed & Zorki "collection". They work. Any one who knows a Leica always stops me when my Fed-2 is around my neck. . .the Fed-1 would probably be a show stopper. Aloha, Bill

Thanks

Thanks Bill All info helps, but to a novice it is very daunting.

I imagine Bill is right about some of the high prices on ebay, though perhaps particularly rare FED and Zorki variants are worth a premium to specialised collectors. If your aim is to sell the cameras on, then it probably doesn't matter too much which camera the fakes are based on, since the process of making them look like Leicas will generally destroy most of their value to serious collectors of Soviet cameras. It's very likely they are just based on common variants, anyway. The main thing is to make it really clear they aren't genuine Leicas. If you have other Soviet cameras in original condition, it might be worth taking a bit more time to find out exactly what they are, though the odds are you won't have anything valuable.