Leica M8 issues revisited

It was to be expected that some issues would pop up, they always do on ew model cameras, but these are

major issues.

 

What surprises me is thta "the great reviewer" who has danced a merry and profitable dance around every

Leica Forum on the web hasen't come to this conclusion at the end of his review series.....

 

And compared to the amount of post he posted (pre-introduction) compared to the amount of posts he

posts now the critique on the M8 is getting bigger.

 

Where is he ?

 

What are his views?

 

Why weren't these issues "touched" in his review?

 

Noblesse Noblige ... ohh almighty one !

 

 

Or are we going to have to pay a $19,95 surcharge for the end part of the review?

 

 

And last but not least, what value is a lenghty "nicely" written review if it doesn't review? From a literarry

point of view there are better thing to be got at regular books stores, they are called Novels, they are

mostly fictional.... just like your review....

Jonathan,

would it not be appropriate to name the "major issues" so that we know what your lengthy complain is about?

 

Ulrik

Ukrik:

<p>

Why would you care what such a vicious personal attach is about? You may have noticed

that

there has been little discussion of M8 problems on the photo.net Leica Forum, while

there is extensive and serious dialogue on the Leica Users' Forum, for example in this: <a

href="http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/8937-official-leica-

statements.html"><u>thread</u>.</a> LUF is much better moderated and personal

attacks and ad hominem arguments are quickly nippped in the bud: the result is a much

better and more interesting level of discussion.

<p>

--Mitch/Bangkok

Thank you Mitch.

 

Ulrik

LUF is much better

 

Then why do you hang around here if you have found your little paradise? or do you just like complaining about everything and everyone.

 

If someone is charging for a review and it proves to be biased they should be expected to be challenged.

I don't "hang around here", as you so nicely put it: I only came back to see whether the forum

has improved ? and the answer to that is obvious. And I'm responding to your posting

because I put in an e-mail notification.

 

Yes, reviewers can, and should, be challenged; but it can be done with some grace and

substance, rather than a viciuos personal attack.

 

--Mitch/Bangkok

Vicious ?

 

you must have a warbled view of the world you live in ....

 

Upset... Over reacted ? Perhaps.

 

When somebody reviews a product for which one has to pay, one can at least expect a

serious in depth review, especially since the reviewer directly and indirectly blows his own

trumpet so widely. When one buys the product, partly based on the outcome of the review

only to dicover that low-light/night photography is a miss or you are not sure that when

you press the shutter button the camera will actually take a picture or turn off, you can

think "maybe it's me or my camera, maybe it's Monday Morning production camera and I

can return it and claim a better one" these things happen. But when you read the amount

of complaints you know at that point that it's a structural problem.... something an in-

depth reviewer should of noticed and noted to say the least.

 

If the review would of read something like: it's a great camera, takes great shots, etc. etc.

but it will blackout once every 500 shots, it will have a fringe of whatever it's called when

shot a t night ever 3rd shot, but for the rest it's great ..... I honestly think I would of waited

with the purchase until these problems were resolved.

 

The leica quality issue is not a problem here, I trust leica to solve it.

 

The problem is the review, a paid review for that.... and when push comes to shove the

review is more than worthless...

Jonathan:

 

At least you've now come back with something substantive. However, I don't agree with

your opinion and think that Sean Reid's reveiws are excellent and informative, and much

better than anything available free on the web, such as dpreview, and well worth the $20-

odd subscription fee.

 

Now, as for the M8 banding (or light-streaking) and the magent/IR color problem in the

blacks: these are not problems that will necessarily surface in testing a camera -- of

course hindsight has 20/20 vision and any reviewer would now test any new Leica digital

camera for these problems. These are problems that are bound emerge when a lot of

people start using the camera.

 

On the LUF thread that I linked above there is a through discussion of these issues, as well

as of Sean Reid's review; and he responds on all these points. The LUF has also several

other thread on these issues that people interested in buying an M8 would do well to read.

Some people have returned the camera; others have cancelled their orders; while others

are still buying or planning to buy, as people have different perceptions of the relevance of

these issues to them, according to the nature of their photography.

 

--Mitch/Bangkok

I have no idea who you're talking about. Why don't you just name them?

 

<p><i>would of waited</i><p>Try "would've" or "would have" "ohh almighty one!"

Sean Reid's new site might be subscription only, but I've found he's contributed a huge

amount of valuable information about the R-D1 etc that I've accessed for free. And I respect

him far more than I would someone who posts a thread merely to attack another in such

pompous terms.

Ray,

 

sorry for my "not acceptable" spelling. Shall we continue in my mother-tongue? perhaps my

use of that language will suit you better !

I don't "hang around here", as you so nicely put it:

 

You must live a very sheltered life if a few words are so upsetting to you. Perhaps you are an academic living in cloistered hallowed halls.

And Ray, it'll be "whome your talking about" not "who"

I read Sean Reid's review. I also read Sean and Seal going at it on rfforum. The M8 is only a camera for chr*st's sake.

The M8 is only a camera, yes true, it' also a $8000+ investment (#28mm 2,8)

 

 

(and Ray I hope this passed your spelling standards)

;)

I wanted to weigh in to this wonderful discussion ;-)

 

It's 'whom' not 'whome'

 

LOL

and Ray got the "you're" bit right ...

 

;-)

Without commenting one way or the other on the plausibility of all the "professional" preproduction reviewers missing what a few mere mortals noticed five minutes after their M8's battery was charged up, the issues have been identified so this is water under the bridge. The main problem now, at least as I see it, are the number of people who are "not seeing" the issues, or convincing themselves they will only show up in a small percentage of shots and therefore not worth sending the camera back for a refund. Eventually, aside from the fictional stereotyped "rich collector" who will just keep the M8 on a glass shelf, I believe most of the deny-ers will get frustrated with streaks and purple colour casts and baulk at buying filters for all their lenses and using only coded lenses. The sooner that happens the quicker and the better the fix will be forthcoming from Leica.

Hmmm... Seems Vinay is engaging in some now-fashionable leica bashing...

Hey I stood up for them on faith alone and now I've got a whole crate of eggs on my face. But I don't call my attitude bashing, any more than it's bashing to boo the coach of your favourite team when he calls a lousy play that costs the game.

Did early Barnacks have problems? I understood they were flat-out revolutionary, like M3. Is M8 in that league?

Vinay is right, not bashing, neither am I for a matter of fact.

Look at Leica's history and electronics..... now not good is it?

 

I was quite aware of problems arising and also aware of the fact that leica would solve them eventually, they always do, thats good about a reputable firm as leica is.

 

I'm just peeded of by the hoard of reviewers, especially the ones that charge for reviews and just review the camera in the 80% zone and calling it perfect. Every camera has it's zone in which it performs really well, this is not the zone "professional" reviewers should be concentrating upon, everybody can understand that a leica m( has a high level satisfaction zone, it the unsatisfactory zone I am interested in, but no they just go ahead and show us pictures within the 80% zone and keep on telling us how good it is ... this is not reviewing, not under my terms anyway....

 

This coincides with Vinay's post, you have all the owners whom (!) have bought the M8 and are willing to defend their purchase up until higher heaven by claiming this, that and of course... the other.

I think its a fair call to question how no reviewer of the camera picked up the IR issue. The photos that it are showing up are not rare and unique picture taking conditions they are from all over, the studio, the street, in concerts, at restaurants. What did the testers actually photograph? The basic response so far has been "oh we only had the pre-production firmware" but this problem has nothing to do with that. It so too is fair to be upset paying for a review that should have easily spotted this fault. Given that alot of these testers also provided feedback to Leica, they could have saved alot of this from even being released.

The problem with the M8 is really a corporate issues. A bunch of talented engineers get

together and develop a new, ground-breaking product. The marketing, corporate types

push to rush it to market before all of the kinks are worked out. When problems that the

engineers warned about surface, the corporation pushes those same engineers to develop

a fix that doesn't cost money, while the bosses refuse to publicly admit their is a problem.

What Leica should do first is apologize--say they are sorry for not making sure all of the

bugs were out of their $5000 camera before shipping them. Second, develop a fix that is

built into the software or hardware of the M8 and announce when the fixed models will

begin shipping. Third, offer any person who purchased a "new and improved m8" in

exchange for their old one. Finally, retrofit the exchanged M8s and sell at a slight

discount, say $3000. This would solve the problem without it getting worse. But, alas,

Leica will waste time until lawyers in the US file a class action suit and then phtotographers

won't get what they want and Leica will insist their is no problem and spend more on

lawsuits then it would have cost to fix the problem.