Leica M6 TTL or not TTL?

Hi,

 

I'm moving my first steps in the Leica world and I would buy an M6

body but I'm not sure to buy a M6 0.72 or an M6 TTL even if I belive

that I don't use the flash frequently. Further, wich body to buy, a

Chrome model o a Black model.

 

Anyone know where I can read reviews and opinions? And give me an

opinion? I found that M6 it's around EUR 1200 and M6 TTL 1500 EUR.

 

Regarding the lens I would like to buy a Leica-M 35/2 Summicron but

probably I'm going to buy, at the moment and for badget problems, a

Leica-M 50/2.8 Elmar: is it a good lens anyway (sharp, contrast)?

I would answer all of your questions with a simple yes.

 

Both the Classic M6 and TTL model are excellent cameras with very accurate meters. Shutter speed dials spin in opposite directions, the TTL is slightly taller to make room for the electronics, no real substantial other differences. The TTL will generally be newer, and therefor you should have not need to have it serviced as quickly as you would a Classic. Remember, preventative maintenance will keep your camera purring.

 

Black or Chrome, cosmetic, pick the one you like. Lenes, all excellent, consider a used 50/2 Summicron for not much more than the Elmar too.

 

Find a good one, buy it and enjoy.

Domenico,

The biggest visible difference between the M6 and M6TTL is the shutter speed dial. The one on the TTL is larger and it turns in the oposite direction of that of the M6 and older Ms. Some think this is better as it turns the same ways the meter arrows in the viewfinder points. The meter in the TTL is said to be a little more sensitive and of cause there is the TTL flash metering from which it gets the "TTL" designation. Outside of that the cameras are more or less identical. I can't remember, but the TTL may be available in diffrent viewfinder mags, but since you are opting for a .72 that dosen't matter.

 

Crome or black is a matter of taste, my M6 is black and that is what I preferr. Crome bodys are said to be more scratch resistant, but that will also depend on how you take care of her. IMHO chrome lenses look better on a chrome body than black one, but that is apairances only.

 

The 50mm Elmar-M is widely appreciated by many. Some say it is the best 50 available. I have no personal experience, but the colapsing lens gives you an ultra compact camera and that appeals to me. Finding an older Elmar f2.8 second hand shouldn't be a problem, the current version might be harder to find (unless off cause you plan to by the lens new). A second hand Summicron 50mm would be more reasonably priced than a 35mm 'cron.

 

In the end, only you can decide what is right for you.

Get either model it really makes no difference unless you are wedded to doing lots of flash work.

 

The 35/2 Summicron (pre-asph) prices are going stratospheric because of all the 'Bokeh King' hype on forums like this and also because new Leica prices have gone up about 30 percent in the last few years.

 

The last decent E++ 35/2 I saw listed a few days ago was 700 GBP. Just a few years ago it would have been about 400 GBP.

Same shameless marketing here. I'm selling my M6 Classic .72 Chrome. I'm in the UK so

shipping's a breeze and no import taxes and i'm asking for less than the 1200EU u quoted.

Do email me szekiat@gmail.com I think some of the guys i've bought/sold stuff with can

probably vouch that i'm the real deal...(i'll dig up specific emails if u want)

For instance if you want to read up on the M6(TTL):

<a href="http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica_m6.shtml">Luminous Lanscape M6</a>

 

or

<a href="http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=354&print_page=y">Popular photography review M6</a>

 

or

<a href="http://www.thevooner.com/feature/2000/11/24/leica/leica.htm">The Vooner M6</a>

 

and I'm sure you already <a href="http://www.photo.net/equipment/leica/m6">This M6</a> review.

For instance if you want to read up on the M6(TTL):

<a href="http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica_m6.shtml">Luminous Lanscape M6</a>

 

or

<a href="http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=354&print_page=y">Popular photography review M6</a>

 

or

<a href="http://www.thevooner.com/feature/2000/11/24/leica/leica.htm">The Vooner M6</a>

 

and I'm sure you already found <a href="http://www.photo.net/equipment/leica/m6">This M6</a> review.

<i>"the TTL is slightly taller to make room for the electronics"</i><p>

 

I think I read it's not the electronics but the additional gear required to make the shutter knob turn in the opposite direction.

<p>

Apart from this (which might be important if you eventually have several M cameras), a TTL will be more recent than a non TTL. I don't know if it really matters given the durability of the beasts.

A difference between the two models which has some practical significance is the meter readout information.

Get the TTL.

 

1. The shutter speed dial turns the the same way as the meter diodes in the viewfinder, so

it's quite intuitive to use. (the M6 classic turns the opposite way.) Plus, it's right at the

edge of the top plate, making it easier to turn with your eye on the finder than the classic's

dime-sized knob.

 

2. There are three diodes in the finder, which makes the metering a bit more subtle and

accurate.

 

3. You often hear that the M is an 'available light only' camera, but the TTL is a fine flash

body for indoor work, and the SF-20 has an excellent, modern LCD readout that lets you

compensate plus or minus three stops very quickly.

 

You might hear some people say that the TTL body, since it's 2mm or so taller than the

classic, has had its looks spoiled; those people are pure evil, and you should avoid them.

;-)

Do you ever see yourself getting an older Leica M body, like an M2 or M3? If yes, you may want to stick with the M6 Classic due to the shutter speed dial issue.

I've owned both an M6 (classic) and an M6 TTL. I loved my M6 (classic) and bought a TTL purely to get the 0.58 viewfinder. However, it is bigger: not much, but enough that you know it's bigger, and I found that I didn't like the different feeling in the hand. So much so that when I got a backdated payrise it went and was replaced by an MP 0.58 (which is the same size as the M6 classic). As for the shutter speed dial, I guess that you can get used to it going either way. Just don't own both types at the same time!

"The 35/2 Summicron (pre-asph) prices are going stratospheric because of all the 'Bokeh

King' hype on forums like this..."

 

Amen. The lens is vastly over-priced relative to its performance. But if internet chatter has

you convinced the lens has "magic" properties, consider its price a tax for your credulity.

The TTL is nice because it has the larger shutter wheel that makes it easier to use. Why buy the Elmar when you can pick up a nice 50mm Summicron? Later on get the 35mm Summicron and then you'll have two fast lenses in your kit.

 

I discount the TTL anymore since the sync speed is so slow on the M6. Both of the prices you've quoted are on the high side IMO. High Street?

<<Amen. The lens is vastly over-priced relative to its performance. But if internet chatter has you convinced the lens has "magic" properties, consider its price a tax for your credulity.>>

 

Let's face it, that's true of every Leica lens. We pay a lot of money for that last few line pairs in resolution at full aperture, or a couple percentage points in MTF. The 4th-generation 35mm Summicron is the best performer by some margin, of the rest prior to the ASPH. It remained in high demand long before the internet hubbub because the ASPH is a bigger and heavier lens.

Steve, did you previously use a non-M6ttl/M5 body to be able to notice the 2mm difference?

<i>Steve George , apr 20, 2006; 08:50 a.m.<br>

I've owned both an M6 (classic) and an M6 TTL. I loved my M6 (classic) and bought a TTL purely to get the 0.58 viewfinder. However, it is bigger: not much, but enough that you know it's bigger, and I found that I didn't like the different feeling in the hand. So much so that when I got a backdated payrise it went and was replaced by an MP 0.58 (which is the same size as the M6 classic). </i><br><br>

Can someone confirm this? Since the newer M7 and MP are technically TTL as well, wouldn't these bodies be the same size as M6TTL and not M6/M4/M3/M2?

"I think I read it's not the electronics but the additional gear required to make the shutter knob turn in the opposite direction."

 

No. The top cover is 2mm taller to make room for the circuit board required for the TTL metering. The same condition exists on the M7.

Keep in mind the M7 retained the slightly taller body and "wrong direction" larger s/speed dial.<p>

 

Since 1999 I've owned a Leica M4-2, M3, M4-P and M6TTL and extensively used a M7 (three month loan from Leica). I've kept the M6TTL - best of all worlds IMO.<p>

 

FWIW, here's the FAQ topic on M6 variants (including a summary of TTL features):<p>

 

<a href="http://nemeng.com/leica/002ba.shtml">nemeng.com/leica/002ba.shtml</a>

If you do a whole lot of flash work and metered flash is important to you I would suppose the TTL might be preferable. However, if you use flash only occasionally the Classic might suit your needs and save you some money that can be put to the lens. I've used Leica cameras for over sixty years and the reversed shutter dial would probably be a PITA to me , but if it's your first Leica it of no consequence. <p> Black or Chrome? I have several Leicas of both persuasions and whether I mix or match is a no brainer. I like them all. <p> I concur with the choice of the Elmar but a collapsible Summicron would cost appreciably less. <p> The extra height does make a difference! My old III feels a lot smaller than its IIf sister, and the M's feel like monsters in comparison. Besides it might be a factor if you should ever obtain any of the older lenses or the Visoflex. <p> All in all I vote for the M6 Classic!

Nearly everything covered, except one little thing:

 

Jay's trick (remember Jay ?) for doing fill-flash at 1/125 (rather than 1/50) on the M6 Classic with the camera held vertically. The top of the frame gets the fill; the bottom does not.

 

Cannot be done on the M6ttl because, evidently to protect the user from himself, Leica disabled the camera from firing the flash at speeds above 1/50.

 

Domenico, I don't think the choice between Classic and ttl is really a big deal. If it were me, and an attractively priced "user" in excellent working condition became available, whether Classic or ttl, that would be the one I'd get.

 

Finally, you ask about the 50mm f/2.8 Elmar. I have the modern version of that lens. It was my first lens -- and for a long time my only lens -- for the camera. It's an excellent lens, by no means a "come down" from the Summicron in my opinion. Of course it's f/2.8 and not f/2.0, but that alone does not suggest lesser quality, just lesser low-light capability.

 

Good luck, and when you get a camera -- any camera -- post some pictures with us here.

"Let's face it, that's true of every Leica lens."

 

Not really. The newer lenses are expensive, but they deliver unequaled performance at wide

apertures. For example, there's no 35mm f1.4 lens on the planet that can better a 35 Asph

lux at f1.4, so if that's what you need/want, then it's worth it. The IV Summicron 35mm is

not a BAD lens, but it is a poor performer relative to its market value. The Aspherical lenses

deliver performance for their cost, but the IV does not.

<<The Aspherical lenses deliver performance for their cost, but the IV does not.>>

 

In your, ahem, humble opinion.

It's not my "opinion," it's a testable observation that anyone with eyes can make. The 35mm

Summicron Asph. is far superior to the ver. IV wide open and doesn't cost much more used.

Don't bother even responding to him Vinay, his only purpose being on the forum is to sniff out the weak ones and then hound and bully them into submission. Best to ignore him like a little nipping dog, he's annoying but impotent.