Leica M10 Monochrom.

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by babouphoto, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. The menus on the M9 and M Monochrom are less complex than logging into photo.net and making this post.
  2. Michael: Sorry if
    Sorry if I was so churlish. I just bought a 4x5 film camera and have started to shoot Tmax 100 in it. That's BW film. All settings are manual. No menu at all. I couldn't come up with a rationale reason for my wife of why I bought it other then I'll have movements so my landscapes will have better DOF. But it's cheaper than buying a stick shift. Enjoy your Leica. Sounds like a wonderful camera.
  3. Maybe you should be on the Sony, Canon or Nikon forum if you think that we are the Amish of photography. I've used Leica Ms for 20 years for very specific reasons that I find hard to shed (RF, size, silent operation, etc) but with your logic we should still be shooting with M3 cameras because it was good enough. Yet the M6 with TTL was a welcome improvement to the M3/4/5 and Cartier Bresson used one thus embracing new technology like we are now. Then the M7 with Aperture Priority was another welcome addition (God knows I used that feature all the time). Now the M10 is near perfect but yes I could use a little bit more resolution so that I can do bigger prints if I want to. Nothing wrong with that. No I don't need more dynamic range (we had very few stops in the film days and we somehow managed perfectly well).
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
    Sanford likes this.
  4. Ah, if only. Today I'm using either an 11 year old Panasonic or a 13 year old Nikon, both 12 mp.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  5. My go-to Leica dealer recently told me he has pre-orders for 49 M10 Monochrom cameras, which will take about a year to fill!

    I honestly feel that 24 megapixels is about maximum with no image stabilization (an add-on "advantage" for the M11, I suspect). My suspicion is that people will be disappointed to discover that 40 megapixels is simply too much for hand-held shooting.
  6. None of the reviewers complained stop far.
  7. @Ed_Ingold stated somewhere else that hand holding 1/*focal lenght* sec would provide the equivalent of 6MP (at best?) What shutter speed is needed to get 24 or even 40MP resolution hand held? factor 8 or even 16? - 1/1000sec with a 50mm? - Just curious.
    Not sure where I stand, towards the Monochrom M10. Maybe I don't have good enough lenses. Surely I don't have enough cash to pre-order one now and trading other stuff in would leave me renewing the old insight: Having two (point five) Leicas would be better than having just one...
  8. The "focal length" rule is that the minimum shutter speed for a 50 mm lens would be 1/50 second. The shutter speed would need to be 3 stops faster to take advantage of a 40-50 MP sensor, or about 1/500 sec.

    This is predicated on the average camera shake for hand held shots of about 2 deg/sec, and the effect observed on an 8x10" print at a 10" distance (similar to DOF calculations). It is a rule for "good enough," but not "as good as it gets." It takes extraordinary care to eliminate blur at the pixel level for a 40 MP camera, including a sturdy tripod, electronic first shutter, and a soft release (cable or self-timer). The focus must be perfect, and you hope the subject doesn't move.
  9. They generally appear to be pushing ISO to compensate. At full resolution, I'd suspect using shutter speeds below ~1/250 could be problematic.
  10. I don't have a Monochrom (yet) but I'm sorely tempted. Not for technical reasons, but being constrained to B&W changes ones mind-set. One has to think mono from the start. And having the viewfinder show mono helps the process.
  11. In my film era 1/FL never really worked. I was using Kodachrome and I had to use 1/250 to reliably get a sharp projected (20X30) image. And when the Olympus Trip35 camera was introduced it was widely praised for its sharp images which I think was mostly due to its 1/200 fixed shutter speed.
    Jochen likes this.
  12. Sharpness as a goal can get in the way of images.
  13. Why buy an expensive rangefinder mechanism to utilize a (comparably) questionable EVF all the time?
    I got the old one (while there was nothing else) and have no BW preview option.
  14. You get much easier B&W out of a monochrom chip and as has been stated above you also get a 'free' increase in resolution V a CMOS or CCD chip. Leaving aside the futzing around required to use post processing and luminosity masks to get anywhere near the black blacks and white whites - the theoretical extra megapixels required to match a moncrom camera is minimum 35% more megapixels. So in the case of the M10M at 40MP - you need a minimum of around an extra 20MP to match the look after post processing - which means you have to be using the latest Sony at 64MP or higher.

    I shoot film and digital and I can tell you that (a) I couldn't make a B&W film shot like the one below made on my original MM or what they call the M9M now...good luck trying to use a darkroom to make an image with whites and blacks like this too- teh papers aren't made these days with enough silver contgent to do so. Oh scan B&W film you say ? - oh really.....

    This one is a discard of some shots I made for a boutique bike maker years ago - the shoot paid for the camera.

    and this one below is a street shot made with the camera - a happy snap,


    unless colour is an important part of the purpose of the content of an image - there is absolutely no need to have to deal with - I prefer to only have to think about luminosity when I am shooting B&W. So when I am using my Fuji I have the viewfinder see in B&W - no distractions - I do the same for all my cameras. Ironically the Leica's rangefinder doesn't allow for this ( obviously).

    I am thinking about the M10M - its one draw back is the rangefinder focusing mechanism - my eyes aren't what they used to be and I find that nailing focus when shootingt wide open has caused me 'focus anxiety' the 40MP will only exaggerate the fear based on low hit rates compared to SL/SL2. - still I do miss the files I used to get from teh original CCD MM.

    PS : the spot in the sky was the beginning of the infamous rusty chip issue...
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
  15. The resolution of a camera system is, as you probably know, a product of lens and camera. A lens will thus never "outresolve" the resolution of the sensor, nor vice versa. More megapixels will, ceteris paribus, give greater resolution, as will a better resolving lens no matter the resolution of the sensor. (If more resolution is your goal you should, hovewer, update the "weakest link" first since, arithmetically, increasing the lowest of the two factors will yield a the greater product).

    When it comes to motion blur, a photography printed the same size will not be more blurry with a higher resolving sensor (or lens!). The potential resolution of the sensor will, of course, only be achieved with adequate stabilisation/high shutter speeds.

    I'm not a sharpness fetishist, by any means, but especially appreiciate the fact that high resolving sensor can bring old, somewhat soft—but otherwise beautifull—back to life, so to speak, by giving the system as a whole a little bump in resolution.

    PS: I'm sure we are in agreement on these points, I just wanted to clearify for the sake of readers not wrongly getting the impression that more megapixels will give more blur with same print size (or the related misunderstanding that the additional megapixels are totally lost on lower resolving lenses).
    Karim Ghantous likes this.
  16. Edit: It should read "(...) otherwise beautiful—lenses (...)". When I tried to make this small edit in the original post, I got the error message that my edit was "spam-like". AI, it seems, is getting dumber every day.
  17. Too bad Robert Frank passed away. He could have used this camera (not).
  18. Just saw our friend, Ken Rockwell, posted one of his [worthless] reviews on the M10M. Although there are some "sample shots" I'm wondering if he actually used the camera?
  19. Wait, you're talking about the next when they just announced the new one?? So its already obsolete?
  20. Peter, I do hear lots of great things about the M9M. Try finding a used one in this country. If they are around, they aren't on eBay.

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