Leica IIc?

<p>My brother in law and his wife are in town from down east (Toronto area).</p>

<p>When I went over to the mother in laws to see them they handed me a camera. It was in a leather case so naturally I opened it up quick as a bunny to see the camera. It was a Leica! It came with a hard cover 'Owners Manual' (copyright 1951). I don't know if it came with the usual small manuals we are used to. When my B.I.L took it to a store down east to see what the value might be, he indicated that the guy was more interested in the manual!</p>

<p>I'm not 100% positive but I believe its a IIc. Any information on the camera would be greatly appreciated. Such as the film leader: do I really have to trim it or can I just use the factory stuff right out of the canistor?</p>

<p>I know that I have to advance the film before setting film speed but thats about all so far.</p>

<p>There is a small ding on the knob where you set the iso but other than that, she looks to be in awesome shape.</p><div></div>

<p>Another photo:</p><div></div>

<p>This camera was purchased by my wifes father who I have never met as he died of cancer before I met her. He bought it in Checkoslovakia (he is from there) new. I cant go into much detail but he did end up in a prison due to his religious beliefs but when he escaped he came to Canada.</p>

<p>He couldnt take much with him but this is one of the few items he did bring. After his death, about 14 years ago one of his two sons took it with him to Toronto.</p>

<p>Couple days ago, he gave it to me.<br>

<em></em></p>

<p>That is a beautiful IIf black dial. You still have to trim the film, but that isn't really much of a problem. I have a small scissors on my Swiss Army knife which works well for this application. Don't be too concerned about the exact shape if the leader, as long as there are no tears in it. The ISO setting in the winding knob is just a reminder. It has absolutely no effect on the operation of the camera. (Red panel for color film, black for B&W film.)</p>

<p>According to the number it is a IIf of 1951 - The dial around the shutter speed dial that sets different flash delays confirms this.</p>

<p>I tried to load a roll of film, got the leader under that flap(?) on the take up spool - but when I place the film into the camera, the sprockets are NOT lining up. Would this be the reason behind trimming?</p>

<p>IIf - thanks for that! And the year.</p>

<p>There is a copy of the 'small' manual here <a href="http://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_if_iif_iiif/leica_if_iif_iiif.htm">http://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_if_iif_iiif/leica_if_iif_iiif.htm</a> <br>

Send Mike Butkus the Paypal donation he suggests if it is useful - he provides a tremendous online resource.</p>

<p>Yes, trimming fixed my problem! THanks Nick for that link - very helpful and yes I will definitely send him a donation for the manual. This is one camera I really want to use so that one piece of information that helped me will make the donation well worth it.</p>

<p>Derek, that's a nice camera with a good lens. If it hasn't been used for a long period of time (years?) the shutter speeds may be off. Give some thought to bracketing your shutter speeds when you use the camera as Leica shutter speeds tend to lose their accuracy over time, especially if the camera hasn't been in use for a long time. Color negative film tends to be quite forgiving of exposure error even if you over expose. Usually not so much tolerance if you under expose. 1/200th on the shutter speed dial may actually be 1/100th or even 1/60th on your camera. I don't know the ASA of your loaded film, but in open sun bright daylight, "sunny 16" means set your lens opening at f16 and the shutter speed at 1/200th if using ASA 200 film and 1/500th for ASA 400 film. Then use slower shutter speeds and see what shutter speed looks best after taking the same shots. If the speeds are way off and you can't get a good picture, this site has the name of several good Leica repair services that can do a thorough cleaning, lubricating and adjusting so your IIf will operate like new.</p>

<p>Glad you figured the film leader out. It definitely is a lot easier to load if you trim it right. Well, as easy as it's gonna get on one of these cameras. I love the old screw mount Leicas. Christopher is right about the shutter speeds probably being slow. One thing you can do once you finish your roll of film is just fire the shutter 5 or 10 times on every speed. That will usually bring them up. I got frustrated w/ never knowing if my speeds were slow or if it was developing problems on my old cameras and bought an inexpensive shutter speed tester on fleabay for $45 or so. The guy builds them himself and they work off the Audacity program on your computer. Best $45 I ever spent. I made up a notebook and logged in the true speeds on all of my old cameras. Now I know exactly what speed it's firing at. That's a very special mother in law you have.</p>

<p>Thanks Christopher and John - I talked to my B.I.L today and he mentioned that there might be some pinholes in the curtian. I guess I'll know better once I develop the first roll.</p>

<p>I did in fact play around with the camera when I first got it by shooting the camera at the different shutter speeds so maybe, just maybe I'll be ok?</p>

<p>Good point at using the Sunny F16 rule and usig the dif speeds. I'll do that. I never expect much with the first roll through a new-to-me camera, but always hope for the best.</p>

<p>Hi Derek,</p>

<p>This is a great camera. I picked up a IIc a few months ago, and thought I had been ripped off, it looked too good to be true. You'll find some pictures in the thread I launched to find out: <a href="photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00SuD6">photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00SuD6</a>. It's a 1936 II, so it's black paint, with nickel controls and lens. The diafragm stops are not yet the standard ones we all use today. Of course, no flash sync, but who cares about flash sync? Flash sync is for wusses. As for pinholes in the shutter curtains: this is where luck comes in. Worst case scenario, it can be repaired. In fact, these cameras were really rather designed as precision measurement instruments, so they can be maintained relatively easily by a trained technician. At over 70 years of age, my IIc just chugs along nicely, w/o any problem whatsoever. One word of warning: Leicas grow on you. Enjoy!</p>

 

<p>John stated a couple of things that need clarification.</p>

 

<ol>

<li>Concerning the cheap tester; the shutter on these can only be checked with the body shell removed. (Disassembly required)</li>

<li>Firing a shutter a bunch of times in order to loosen or heat up the shutter mechanism just isn't recommended. It doesn't help the multiple internal precision surfaces if the lubricants are dry. Plus, being in front of a professional "3 sensor shutter tester" almost all day long, I don't notice <strong>any</strong> improvement with high volume firing, especially when the shutter is erratic or imbalanced due to dry lubricants. </li>

</ol>

<p>Finally, if you send a screw mount Leica to have the shutter curtains replaced, know that there are two methods of shutter replacement. One is a <strong>trim and glue</strong> method where they use new curtain material but the existing ribbons and metal rib. The other is a <strong>true replacement</strong> of the complete curtain, stitching, ribbons and rib. (Full curtains assembly with a complete and comprehensive tear down) </p>

<p>Youxin Ye and FleaBay repair <strong>deals</strong> go the route of the "trim & glue" fast and out method...</p>

<p>ANdre: I hear you when you say that Leicas grow on you, this is my 3rd Leica. I also have a M5 and a R4. I hope to get lots of use of the new to me IIf!</p>

<p>Gus: Not sure which would be better but I assume that a true replacement would be best but the more expensive option would be costly (wonder how much that will run a guy!?!) but if it needs repair, I will have to have it repaired.</p>

<p>I'll check out Youxin Ye. Thanks for that.</p>

<p>Gus's comment is the first time I've seen any "before and after" reference to shutter speed changes after "exercising" the shutter speeds. Has anyone else on the forum ever done a body test like Gus's? As to pinholes in the shutter curtains, you'll see them as streaks across the image. Light leaks in the body show up as white spots around the image edges.</p>

<p>Christopher: Thanks for the pin hole/light leak info. I've never had a camera that had pin holes in the curtains so I've never seen the effects first hand. I haven't finished the first roll yet so don't know of any pin hole/light leaks as of yet.</p>

<p>My B.I.L indicated to me that he was told it has pin holes so I'm assuming the info is correct. Can't wait to get the first roll developed (by myself) to see if its true that it does in fact have pin holes/light leaks or not. If it does, I do want to get it repaired - and if it doesnt: bonus - I'll keep on happily shooting!</p>

<p>I've been using the R4 the most (compared to the M5) due to the in camera light meter but thats ok as far as using the IIf as I do have a hand held. The IIf is a beautiful camera and I'm hoping to use it more and more. First off being a Leica, and also a older camera (I really like using antique cameras) - I'm going to enjoy using it. Also due to the family link of course.</p>

<p>I've never met my wifes father, and in a small way this is a link for her, our son and myself to him.</p>

<p>I'm appreciating all the help and information I've received.</p>

<p>My son, 6 1/2, loves taking photos with my wifes digital p&s. One day, the IIf will be passed on to him so I'll want to repair it if it needs it - I just hope he doesnt try to sell it on fleabay!!!</p>

<p>Here's a picture taken with a pinholed (is that a good English word ?) shutter curtain. Pretty it ain't. Notice however how remarkably sharp the picture is, taken with an f2 50mm Summitar. As for shutter speeds, let's be realistic: this is a strictly mechanical shutter, and getting it to within half a stop of indicated speed accross the range is going to be quite a feat. That goes for an M6 as well. I don't lose sleep over speed, but then again, I use negative film: latitude on current film is so huge, shutter speed is not too much of an issue. As for exercising a shutter, I wouldn't know. But I have my doubts. </p><div></div>

<p>Your right - it is remarkably sharp.</p>

<p>Again, not sure how much it would cost but if my copy has pin holes - I'm getting her fixed! Its too nice of a camera and lens to not get used.</p>

<p>Thanks for the image - looks like you caught a photo of something not from this world.</p>

<p>Derek, there is a Leica thread mount to bayonet mount adapter for your Leica Summitar thread mount lens that allows you to mount and use the lens on your M5. But don't collapse the Summitar lens if you use the lens with an adapter on the M5 or you will ruin the M5 meter arm. By the way, repair services here in the US can replace a non functioning M5 meter arm, repair and adjust the meter the setting so your M5 meter will work with non-mercury size 625 batteries. I'm looking forward to seeing how your pictures come out.</p>

<p>Christopher: Thanks for the info about the adapter. I have a 50mm on the M5 already (Canon 1.8), Id really like to get a 35mm for the M5. But yeah, it would be nice to have that Summitar available for use on the M5.</p>

<p>Sherry <a href="http://www.nemeng.com/leica/srcs/whoswho.php?id=s7heKRA"></a> Krauter had worked on my M5 at one point before I bought it and she already adjusted the M5 for non-mercury batteries so I'm good to go on that point.</p>

<p>With me stuck at work today and tomorrow, I wont be able to get many photos in with any camera but I'll do my best to use up the film I put in her and get it developed soon. I'm getting anxious myself to see the results. Keep in mind that the photos won't be the greatest subject matter but thats ok, its a test roll!</p>

<p>The BiL indicated that when he brought it in to have it looked at (to see the value), he was told the rangfinder might be off a bit so yes: this roll of film is a test roll.</p>

<p>Derek, over two years ago Sherry Krauter did the meter replacement and adjustment on my CL, and the meter is still right on. As for the IIc rangefinder, pick a clear night, set the lens at infinity, then find a bright star. You should only see one image of the star in the rangefinder. If not, you will know whether it is off vertically, horizontally or both.</p>

<p>Christopher: Thanks for that idea - might take a while since we've had the lousiest weather this summer lol!</p>

<p>But, yes, I will do that. I was going to just wait until I developed the film to see if the images were sharp or not but since I started this thread I thought maybe I should run a few test shots to test the RF.</p>

<p>I'll place this question here as it is related to the camera above:</p>

<p>The lens, Summitar f=5cm 1:2 (SN813856) has become difficult to use. Its getting stiffer to the point I'm not able to set the f stop. I'm assuming this isn't a problem that *I* can work on without ruining the lens so I would assume I would have to send it in.</p>

<p>Assuming nothing is broken, anyone have any idea what a repair or cleaning (what ever it might need) could run? Anyone have simular problems with other lenses and had them repaired?</p>

<p>Complete disassembly, solvent wash all surfaces, re-lubricate and clean all optics to good working order. Others here on Photo.net have reported from $50 to $120, I personally charge $65.</p>