Lee ND grads are losing color

<p>I have two Lee ND Grad filter sets (hard and soft edge, 03/06/09 each). After a year of flawless work they're loosing density, i.e. the 09 filter for example is only 06, or in other words I have to combine 09 and 03 to come close to 09 densitiy. The loss of density is different from filter to filter, but ALL filters show this effect. I store 3 filters in a Lee filter wrap (1 filter per compartment) and each wrap in a Lee pouch, so I think I stored them properly. They're exposed to light only for a few minutes while composing and shooting.<br /> Interestingly, I had the same effect with an identical LEE filter set about two years ago (which were replaced by Lee). Now these replacement filters show the same loss of density.</p>

<p>I contacted Lee again and they told me that the filters do lose some color over time, but surely not with filters one or two years old. Although they will re-dye or replace the filters again, I don’t want to repeat this procedure every two years or so.</p>

<p>From your experience, have you experienced a similar behaviour with ND grad filters from other manufacturers (Singh Ray, HiTech, Tiffen, others...)?<br /> Any input will be greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>Thank you,<br /> Friedemann</p>

<p><em>PS. I wasn't sure which was the right forum for this question, so I've posted it in two other forums too.</em></p>

<p>Oh yeah my Sinars. The yellow is white the red is orange and the green anything else but not green. The whorst thing is that you never going to find out who makes them because I doubt that Sinar build up a plastic factory to produce filters. :-) Or tell me where the Kodaks gel filter factory was located? You don't know it? Well lets brake the news, it's never existed.<br>

I also beleive that Kodaks gel filter is nothing else than the cheap they call it lightning filter but 10 0000 times more expencive so as Cokin made buy those who producing Filter to Sinar and that is probobly cost a few cents and I'm realy very tired of that, They just fooling around with us.. Like Berrger never been inside one film or paper manufacturing plant :-)<br>

And I'm abot to beleive it's the same with the lenses one produce the glas one polish them and the rest of the so called lens manufacturers using them. I know this is wilde but just see around you and open your eyes</p>

Re Kodak and gel filters: Kodak once bought up an entire company, retired the ageing owner comfortably, and moved a bunch of the emloyees of that company from the U.K to the U.S., so they could persuade one of those employees to come and work for them. That firm they bought was Wratten and Wainwright (still famous for Wratten filters, almost 100 years later), the employee they were after was Kenneth Mees.<br>And they certainly made gel filters, made of gelatin, and not the cheap polyester Cokin and some others sell.<br><br>Same with lenses too: there are quite a number of manufacturers of lenses. Not just one and a world wide conspiracy to hide that 'fact'.

<p>I believe Sinar was involved with Hitech for their filter system.</p>

<p>Q.G.<br /> I still think the rebadging industri is the biggest industri in the wold. Bigger than the manufacturing industri.<br /> And there is more people who think they know than people who realy knows. :-) And of course I still would like to know where they build that Wratten factory where it had been located.<br /> I just can't forget that the whole photographic community where sitting and compared 5 different photographic papers with each other even eshtablishe photographis magazines while all of them come from Forte. and stating one was much better than the other four or vice versa.<br /> And when it come out that Ricoh lenses manufactured at the same place as 5 others like Minolta and of course all the photographic magazines did show and published they silly test results.<br /> Now I just wanna know for the records. If I buy glas from somebody and let one other polish it for me and order barel parts from serval others put my name on it does it makes me a lens manufacturer?<br /> Futher freestyle had this Edu paper which of course was a Forte and the same quality as the more expencive Berrger DE LUX. And where is Berrger now after Fortes dissaperarens from the market.<br /> Freestyle still have Edu så what kind of paper those packages contain now? So you see I'm not totaly out of my time. And for some of my statements got enough contacts to know not just talk. Than again a lots of paper around but there is just 3 manufacturers left producing paper more like two as the Chinese Era went down a while ago. So from where all the others coming from?<br /> And if you people think it's easy to put up a plant to manufacturing paper than you are wrong. The Germans try to wake Forte since Forte wen't down with no luck. And a luck of money to because it costs, need an expertise and no one would invest in this digital era to something which yougsters call för ancient poisoness process which you can get canser and many different desises from.<br /> And last which actualy nothing to do with photography but we have a company here producing exhoust pipes for 15 different car manufacturers around the world and they all have different names insteed of one the actual manufacturers.</p>

<p>Bob<br>

It's possible, we never going to know it as its all business secret. It allwas been like this and going to be for ever.<br>

When I was working for a major photographic distributor worked with Kreonite's and Beselers and Agfa, heard a lot from the owner. Maybe a bit just to much. :-) if you know what I mean.</p>

The factory was in Harrow, London.

<p>Sinar/Hitech was not a secret when they came out.<br>

Since I was Product Manager at Beseler I can tell you that Beseler 2-Step color chemistry was Tetenal and the Beseler color paper was Agfa and the Beseler drums and bases were made by the man who founded Sima. I phrase it that way because he designed drums and bases also for Berkey Photo Marketing for Omega as well as for Unicolor. But there were differences between them all.<br>

Yes, lenses or cameras may come out of a factory under different names, so do camera cases, tripods, filters, flash units, etc. But that does not mean that they are all the same. When we were importing and selling the Gepe camera bags under the Kopho and Gepe names they were coming from a factory in Korea that also made bags for LowePro, Beseler, Canon and many others. But all of the bags were designed to the quality levels and features that each company wanted. They were not all the same. Same thing with all the other products that come out of common factories. Marumi and Hoya have many different quality levels and private label for many companies with the quality level that company wants. But then companies like Heliopan, Giotto, Novoflex do not market products that are sold under names. But Novoflex manufacturers products that are made specifically for other companies like Leica bellows, Rollei bellows and prisms, Leica Visoflex, Hasselblad bellows and prisms. Linhof does precision machining for companies.</p>

 

<p>Bob<br>

I know a lot about this but not everything some of your contribution supprized even me but, the question is how many people out there know about this?</p>

<p>There is one little thing i still got problem with and that is when you talking about different quality from the same manufacturer on order. Yeah, the shape maybe some technical sollution But I promise you that there was a very same Forte paper or film in all of the rebadging industries boxes. Actualy Forte havent got the resorces or the money to create any special film or paper to anyone. All their papers based on the old Kodak recepies which during time bacause of the Hungarian chemists experties got better and better.</p>

<p>And the industri is lying as for ecxample those who would like to waken the polywarmtone paper as they stated that they have employed the Hungarian experts to help them and when I asked who is that expert, no answer come. They of course suspected that i know something about the thing.</p>

<p>So one company who polish glas to be a lens can only polish one quality as they only have a type of mashinery to do so but they can use a less quality when it come to the glas as base. Because either you polish the glas or you don't. Even so other manufacturer can use a quality glas and produce less quality optics because their mashinery is not that sofisticated, But they do optics to a waste number of lens manufacturer on order. And those companies are just a few. So in the end we wind up with different price and quality from the same manufacturer. And I'm not talking about the assambling and rebaging companies</p>

 

<p>Bob<br>

Sadly I've heard that Copal is stopping all production of shutters so I wonder what the lens manufacturers going to use in the future. Do you know anything about this?</p>

<p>Copal announced that they would stop all shutter production late last year.<br>

We contacted Rodenstock and they told us that they had ordered enough lenses from Copal for their expected future needs.<br>

However Rodenstock, Schneider and the latest itteration of Rolle are all making electronic shutters that are currently being offered by Rodenstock (the eShutter and the Rollei shutter), Scnneider (Schneider shutter and possibly the Rollei shutter) and Linhof (all three shutters).<br>

The Rodenstock and Schneider ones are 0 size only and the Rollei is 1 size only and a modified version for a 0 size lens in a 1. The Rodenstock can be operated by an iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch.</p>

<p>Thanks for your responses, that's all very interesting, but to be honest folks the discussion went off topic a bit ...</p>

 

<p>Friedemann<br>

I'm sorry, I'm the one who is guilty highjacking your topic.</p>

<p>Accepted, Frank :-)</p>

<p>Is anyone out there using ND grad filters which are NOT losing color/density?<br>

This is what I really want to know.</p>

<p>Modern screw-in glass ND filters do not fade or change color. At least Heliopan ones do not. They are available in 0.3 to 3.0 density.</p>

<p>I think Bob is very right about the glas filters they are probobly the most permament filters you can ever get. Plastic, color pigments and lightrays is not a very good combination.</p>

<p>Thank you, Bob and Frank. I'm aware of the screw-in glass filters, but to my knowledge they can't be used like rectangular filters, which can be shifted in the filter holder to place the edge exactly where I want it to be.</p>

<p>Anyone using Singh Ray od Tiffen ND grad filters? What's your experience with color loss?</p>

<p>Since this topic was posted, I did tests with the .06, and .09, Lee hard grads, and found the same here that there is a loss.<br>

So if the .09 loses density, and therefore is rendered to theoretically a .06, is anyone just replacing the .09, and using the old .09 as its lessor component? Verses paying for a new .06, when in essence the its there as the old .09. Hope this comes across right, I'm just trying to save a buck, actually over $100 bucks.</p>

It comes across right and certainly makes perfect sense to just replace the filter-option you lost due to one filter changing into another one. Especially when that much money is involved.