lawyer groom wants his deposit back even though he is canceling

I met with a bride back in August about her Jan. 10, 09 wedding. She decided to book with me and sent me the deposit and contract shortly thereafter. Today I got an email from the groom (who happens to be a lawyer) asking me for their deposit back because they decided to hire someone else! My contract states that it's non-refundable. What should I do to handle this? Suggestions please.

Letter from groom, names taken out.

 

"I am (bride's) husband. It is my understanding that (bride) retained you for wedding photographs for our wedding on January 10, 2009 and tendered a $200.00 deposit to you. Please be advised that (bride) and I have selected another photographer at the recommendation from a family member.

 

I believe this notice is sufficient amount of time for you to secure new clients for the January 10, 2009. Therefore, I ask that you refund the $200.00 deposit to my office (see below). Please call me if you have any questions. I would appreciate receipt of the check no later than December 19, 2008. Have a good weekend, and thank you in advance. "

 

How is 3 weeks enough time to book another wedding on that date?!

Here is what my contract says...

 

RESERVATION: A retainer fee of $200.00 (A,B,C) or $300.00 (G,S,P) is required to reserve photography services for your wedding day. Photographer reserves the date and time agreed upon and will not make other reservations for that date and time. For this reason, retainers are non-refundable. The reservation retainer is to be paid at time of signing the contract. The retainer is applied towards the contracted wedding photography package. If the client chooses to break this contract and cancel wedding photography services, clients agree to notify the photographer in writing with signature and date of cancellation.

<p>You might respond that the retainer is nonrefundable but you will be happy to apply the $200 to an engagement photo session if they'd like. You can also add that in the event that you are able to schedule another wedding for their date, that you would provide a refund, otherwise it is nonrefundable.</p>

<p>Course for $200...you might want to avoid the grief altogether and count your blessings that you've avoided any potential future headaches with this couple.</p>

<p>I'd reply with a polite letter sent via registered mail enclosing a copy of the signed contract. His choice of professions, like his beliefs about your business, is irrelevant to the facts as you have presented them. </p>

<p>If he wants to try and take you to small claims court let him. I believe the judge will ask him , based on your written communications with him so far, if he understands contract law. Only communicate in writing (including e-mail) with the couple from this point onward and make sure you keep copies of all of the communication. As a baby lawyer he is no brain surgeon.</p>

<p>Kacy you are rock solid with your contract. If you re-book the date you could refund if you wish. If not, i wouldn't . Your contract is clear and concise. You don't have to be an attorney to understand it. Don't let the fact that he is an attorney intimidate you.</p>

<p>Just tell him plain and simple that the deposit is non-refundable and wish them luck. You could optionally tell him that weddings are normally booked well in advance and weddings booked three weeks before the day is rare at best.<br>

Just because the guy is a lawyer shouldn't make you change what you do. I doubt he would take you to court over $200. It wouldn't be worth his time as a lawyer.</p>

 

<p>Lawyers loving going to court just for the fun of it. Thats there job ! I suggest you return the money. Forget what the contract says, its only $200. You will spend more than that when he decides to take you to court for not returning it. Forget the fact you would win. He could drag it out for weeks and make you spend 3x as much defending you name and company. Is all that work it? Its easy for the photographers on here to say keep it. There not the ones who could be getting sued. Be smart and return the money, you haven't done anything yet bedsides sign some paper work. Forget it and move on. Without going to court. Pick your battles wisely !</p>

<p>Lawyer's wouldn't waste their time going to court over a $200.00 dollar debt. They make that in an hour of talking to you over the phone.<br>

"dragging it out for weeks" ??? Dragging what out ? A court case ? IF it indeed went to "small claims court", it would be a half hour at best hearing in front of a civil court judge. <br>

"Weeks in court' ?? This is not a Perry Mason murder case. <br>

You have accepted "money" in exchange for NOT booking any other clients for that day and turning away other potential clients. <br>

Should you refund the money and fail to book another client, you will come away with ZERO....big fat 00000's !<br>

THAT is what the retainer was for. Not for "merely " siging some papers. Tyler obviously has a unique view of a legal obligation than most.<br>

If we fail to enforce contractual obligations, then why bother to sign "papers" at all. Lets just accept money on a handshake and leave it at that.<br>

<br /><br>

<br /></p>

<p>Like I said its EASY for you George to say fight it. Your not the one at risk, and you have no clue what this groom will do in court. Who knows the grooms firm could have tons of friends in the legal system including judges and lets pretend he loses in court on some loop hole he is able to find in the contract, and Kacy is ordered to return the $200 and then court cost and attorney fees. Which could end up being well over $1000. Wow good advice ! thats worth it. Just because you have a signed contract dosent guarantee you will win in court. Anything can happen.<br>

Kacy, make sure you call George when you need help paying for your case and defense. He will be happy to help.</p>

<p>This lawyer is a bozo and a bully. Per his letter, he's just *asking* for a refund. He's probably just trying, but won't proceed once he gets a nice registered letter with a copy of the signed contract. And if does proceed, I would follow through with it in court. The little time that would be wasted in court would be balanced by the fact that I would sleep well at night knowing this bozo didn't get what he was (unjustly) after. In the meantime, I'd probably throw in a letter to his firm management (if he has one) asking if their lawyers actually understand the basic concept of a contract, something along the lines of that. I'm sure most would say this is a waste of time, but I say have some fun with it and if possible make him look like the office bozo. Again, if it ever gets past the point of *asking*.</p>

<p>This is also an opportunity to change the wording or your contract. Bozo is focusing on your written rational for why you will keep a retainer in the case of cancellation.<br>

Your edited contract for future should simply read:<br>

"A retainer fee of $200.00 (A,B,C) or $300.00 (G,S,P) is required to reserve photography services for your wedding day. The retainers are non-refundable. The reservation retainer is to be paid at time of signing the contract. The retainer is applied towards the contracted wedding photography package. If the client chooses to break this contract and cancel wedding photography services, clients agree to notify the photographer in writing with signature and date of cancellation."<br>

By the way, your retainers may be too low. Try 1/2 the final cost of a typical wedding for you instead. Non refundable. Provide no rational.<br>

Now lawyer sees this as rock solid, and will not risk losing $1,000 (instaed of $200) by didling around at last minute. He basically used you in case he couldn't find someone else because your retainer is too low, and he felt your rational provided an opening to question yourself should you be challenged.<br>

I hope his wife cleans him out in divorce court in ten years!</p>

<p>Out of the over one million lawyers you have successfully identified one you would not hire for legal representation. Refuse him in writing, pleasantly and via certified return receipt mail.</p>

<p>I call mine a "Non-refundable Security Deposit"...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photoattorney.com/2006_01_01_photoattorney_archive.html"></a></p>

<p>He only "asks" that you refund the money. He doesn't make any claim to the money. The condition on which the fee was "tendered" was that you reserve that specific date for their wedding. You did reserve it. They broke the contract. Whether or not you can find another client doesn't have anything to do with it, that's just to sweeten the deal.<br>

Unless she was legally insane when signing the contract I'd do as was suggested by the other fine people. Of course choosing him for a husband throws some serious doubt onto her mental state, so forget everything I said.<br>

I suggest you find yourself a good lawyer and ask him what to do. But then you'd probably burn up $200 bucks right there.<br>

fine print: I am not a lawyer, although I have been in court lots of times! ;)</p>

<p>follow-up: He claims to be the bride's husband but they have yet to marry? Sloppy sloppy work!</p>

<p> </p>

<p>You need to be sure - as in solid sure, not comments from a bunch of folks on a forum sure, what the law is in your state on contracts when it comes to refunds, mitigation of damages, etc. You may have to make reasonable efforts to fill the date. But that's something you need to know from a real lawyer's advice. <br>

I don't think one month is reasonable time to find another customer, not this time of year, and you may not be able to find a replacement. But what I or he "thinks" really isn't as important as knowing what the law is where you are. <br>

There are some other interesting facets to this. He states he's the husband but they aren't getting married until January? Did they run off and get a civil marriage and now will be going for a church wedding/blessing? Does he even have legal standing to ask you to cancel the contract and ask for a refund?</p>

<p>Actually they are already married and now they are doing the big wedding. I definitely think it's just plain rude to cancel because someone told you their photographer was really good. I do agree that he's probably just trying to get it back just in case I would be ok with actually giving it to him. Ethically, I think I am in the right...he doesn't give me a valid reason for wanting to cancel the contract. I will talk to a lawyer friend of mine as well and keep you all posted as to what happens. Thanks for the comments!</p>

<p>Kacy - hahaha. thanks for some amusement. of course he doesn't get his money back if he picked another photographer!</p>

<p>just remind him that the retainer was not refundable, and wish him well.</p>

<p>if he just found out that he has some terminal illness, that might be different.</p>

<p>I woudln't worry about getting sued. the judge would laugh at him.</p>

<p>would you ask for medical advice from a brick layer?<br /> why ask photographers for legal advice?<br>

consult a lawyer, or else fly by the seat of your pants and see what happens.</p>

<p>I know many lawyers, and I am the son of one. $200 is worth something like 30 to 60 minutes of his legal time, and is probably not worth filing papers to take you to small claims court, let alone actually going to court. There is some risk if he's a very new lawyer and thinks he can bluff people around, but he'd be the laughing stock of the profession within his area if he tried to follow up on his letter. Good luck.</p>

 

<p>DN nailed this one. <br>

I am a real lawyer, and have been for 20 years. You need to call this guy's bluff. Send him the nice but firm letter DN suggested, with a photocopy (you better keep the original!) of the entire contract. Point out in your letter that the contract clearly states that your retainer is non-refundable and therefore you are not able to accommodate his request. End of discussion. He knows exactly what a "retainer" is, trust me, and he understands the contract. <br>

And bridezilla is unlikely to sue you in small claims court over that amount of money, but if she does, you should win. Just don't lose that signed contract. You will need to take it to court and show it to the judge. As a lawyer he has no excuse for not understanding it. <br>

Don't lose any sleep over it. Send that letter out and don't fret. He knows he is not going to win that battle in court.<br>

Bob</p>

 

<p>BB is on point. Even a junior attorney should recognize your contract as binding. He is fishing. Reply per BB's suggestion, and have a nice day.<br>

I also agree with AN. Remove from the contract any ambiguity, such as the rationale for the deposit. It is a deposit, period. You cancel - you forfeit.</p>

 

<p>That last sentence on the paragraph that you list, makes it seem that they can cancel. You would be on a much more solid base if it was not there. Not so sure he could not win and even if can not win is $200 worth going to court? If you hire an attorney it may cost you more then the $200. Now having said that since the couple is not married, the person that should be asking for the money back is the client, the bride to be, he has no standing as it is not his money.</p>

<p>By the way, I think that it was sloppy writing on the lawyers part, as we can have both a husband and a bride, either he is the groom or she is his wife, not bride. The writing may have been intentional.</p>

<p><em>Lawyers loving going to court just for the fun of it. Thats there job</em><br /> <em><br /></em> Actually, contrary to popular opinion, that is not the case at all. There are very few lawyers who would ever go to court to represent themselves. And there are zero lawyers who would go to court to fight over $200. Simply put, no lawyer can risk the damage to personal reputation if they lost a case where they represented themselves. It is standard practice for lawyers who are involved in litigation to hire other firms to represent them. Needless to say that's an expensive undertaking, and disproportional to recovery of $200.</p>

<p><br /> Your contract is clear and was understood by the bride when she signed. Nothing more to say here. The groom has no additional rights just by virtue of his career choice.</p>

<p>Question I have is on last part of your contract you state <em>"If the client chooses to break this contract and cancel wedding photography services, clients agree to notify the photographer in writing with signature and date of cancellation." </em>So does that mean there is a time period in which that can cancel and you will refund their money? And if so then what is the time period? Overall I think your contract is iron clad and you shouldn't have any problems if you keep the $200, as long as you respond in certified mail with return receipt.</p>

<p>I agree with Andre...$200.00 is way too little for within 3 weeks of the wedding.<br>

I use two installments for mine:<br>

The couple pays me a $50.00 "booking fee" upon signing the contract. This is non-refundable the instant the check falls into my hand.<br>

Next, my contract clearly states that half of the total package cost (less the $50 booking fee) is due 90 days before the event, and it non-refundable as of 90 days before the event.<br>

Of course, if a client were to book with us within 90 days of their wedding date, I wuld arrange a custom contract geared towards that.<br>

By using the two-step deposit system, I am guaranteed two things. 1) I get $50 off the bat to show they are serious, and they are less likely to jack me around knowing they already coughed up money. 2) Once we get within 90 days, I'm golden. No one is going to throw away $500 - $1200 (depending on which package they got) because they found another photographer.<br>

Just for info, my contracts also clearly state that once the 90-day deadline passes, the only way they get a red cent back is if I cancel. If I cancel, I agree to give them back everything they have paid me to date, including the $50 booking fee, PLUS 15%, provided they sign a waiver barring them from taking legal action.<br>

Just an idea or two. Good luck, but I think you have a solid case. Just send the certified letter and tell them, with apologies, that your request cannot be accommodated per the binding contract all mutually entered into, and that it is of utmost importance that you keep all contracts as signed for consistency's sake between clients.<br>

What would your other clients say if they found out you ignored a contract for someone else?? Not a good idea.</p>