hans_beckert Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Question #1 was about the strength of developers immediately aftermanufacture. I have read that developers are shipped with a littleextra potency to help withstand long storage. Question #2 was about possible changes in 'silver content'. Hans, 1. Regarding the B/W developer solution question --That is not the way Kodak does it. I don't know about othermanufacturers. Although there are a wide variety of B/W developers,some sold as powders, others as liquid concentrates, and there will be some differences in keeping characteristics, I would say that atypical product would show no measurable performance difference ifkept under proper conditions for at least 6 to 9 months. After aslightly longer time, there might be a difference that would bemeasurable under carefully controlled laboratory conditions, but not adifference likely to be noticed in the normal use of the product. After two years or so, the condition of a developer is likely to bedependent on the storage conditions, and perhaps variables in handlingthat may have affected the packaging material, etc. Some of thechanges at this time are likely to be noticeable in normal use of theproduct. After three to five years, some products may be just fine,but as the elapsed time and keeping condition variables mount up, thechances of poor results will increase. 2. Regarding Kodak Tri-X products, there are three basic Tri-X products that professional photographers might be involved with. I'mnot sure what other films might be included in your description of"films such as Tri-X." A significant change in silver content oftraditional B/W films would be accompanied by a significant change inother characteristics --tone reproduction, contrast, and granularity,for example. Consistency of product has always been a prime goal inthe manufacture of Tri-X products, and, over the years, comparisons ofKodak products with other manufacturers' products have shown Kodak tobe consistently ahead of other manufacturers in this regard. Any"breakthrough" in technology that would allow a significant change inthe silver content or image structure would be better introduced tothe public as a new product than as a "secret" change to the Tri-Xfilms. In fact, such a breakthrough was introduced with the T-Maxfilms. Although some people within the company expected sales ofTri-X would tail off following the introduction of the T-Max films andthat the products would be discontinued due to lack of sales, this hasnot happened. The current "best practice" for manufacturing these products is tocontrol the characteristics of all the materials going into the product, and to control all parts of the manufacturing process so thatthe "standard" product formulation will produce product withconsistent characteristics every time. This has been found to workbetter than the procedure used in past years, when the filmformulation engineer had the freedom to "tweak" a component slightlyto compensate for apparent changes in raw materials in order to makethe resulting product closer to established aims. So it is probablynot true to say that a particular Tri-X product has always had theexact same silver level for the past 30 or 40 years. But based on myexperience for the last 20 or so, I doubt that there would be anyvariations greater than 5%, and certainly no permanent, intentionallevel shift. If you should have additional questions, please be sure to revisit our site as we are continually adding information to enhance our support. For immediate answers to commonly asked questions, please visit:http://kodak.broaddaylight.com/kodakprofessional/index.html For product and technical information, service, support, and downloads:http://www.kodak.com/go/professional For information on ProPass Magazine:http://www.kodak.com/go/propass Regards, Peter V.Kodak Information and Technical SupportKodak ProfessionalPh. 800-242-2424 ext. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_malone Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Thanks for posting this reply from Kodak. It's a great reference point in the debate over stability of commercial developers & changes in Tri-X. There are sometimes postings on this site by "knowledgeable" professionals that are based soley on their own opinions. That's OK - as long as it's not presented as fact. Unfortunately, that distinction is not always made. By going to a manufacturer and posting their reply, you've added valuable information, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oskar_ojala Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Thanks for posting. I particularly found this bit interesting: <p><i>some people within the company expected sales of Tri-X would tail off following the introduction of the T-Max films</i> <p>Since Tri-X and TMax 400 have very different properties, it's rather interesting what the views inside Kodak were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_hicks1 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Dear Hans, Yes, identical to what Ilford has always told me. And likewise there were those (not all!) inside Ilford who expected the Plus series to decline after the introduction of Delta. It may have been the accountants who expected this... Cheers, Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_eaton Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 <I>Since Tri-X and TMax 400 have very different properties, it's rather interesting what the views inside Kodak were.</i><P>I'm curious as well since the intro of TMX and TMY were before Kodak managers starting making suicide leaps from buildings.<P>These films have significant differences in density range which affects their tonal quality. TMX I can live with - TMY I've learned ignore since I can under-expose Tri-X and get the same tonality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hans_beckert Posted December 25, 2003 Author Share Posted December 25, 2003 One thinks this should lay to rest those rumors that have circulated for years on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0002a Posted December 27, 2003 Share Posted December 27, 2003 1. The research that created Kodak TMAX films was specifically initiated in the 1980's as a result of the massive increase in silver prices during the early 1980's (even though the price of silver came back down). 2. All manufacturers (of any product) try to use as few as possible raw materials in the manufacturing process. They sometimes test the limits of improving the manufacturing process, and only back off when people complain or problems occur. Kodak has been in cost cutting mode for a long time and they certainly have been cutting costs whenever possible. Any company that did not try to use the least amount of raw materials (especially expensive materials like silver) has completely incompetent management. 3. Anyone who thinks that the person who answers a particular question put to Kodak Technical Support knows of everything that has happened in Kodak over the years, or knows why every decision was made, or that their view is the only one and true "Kodak" view, is seriously misinformed and living in fantasy world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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