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Kodak reply on Tri-X silver content


hans_beckert

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Question #1 was about the strength of developers immediately after

manufacture. I have read that developers are shipped with a little

extra potency to help withstand long storage.

 

Question #2 was about possible changes in 'silver content'.

 

Hans,

 

1. Regarding the B/W developer solution question --

That is not the way Kodak does it. I don't know about other

manufacturers. Although there are a wide variety of B/W developers,

some sold as powders, others as liquid concentrates, and there will be

some differences in keeping characteristics, I would say that a

typical product would show no measurable performance difference if

kept under proper conditions for at least 6 to 9 months. After a

slightly longer time, there might be a difference that would be

measurable under carefully controlled laboratory conditions, but not a

difference likely to be noticed in the normal use of the product.

After two years or so, the condition of a developer is likely to be

dependent on the storage conditions, and perhaps variables in handling

that may have affected the packaging material, etc. Some of the

changes at this time are likely to be noticeable in normal use of the

product. After three to five years, some products may be just fine,

but as the elapsed time and keeping condition variables mount up, the

chances of poor results will increase.

 

2. Regarding Kodak Tri-X products, there are three basic Tri-X

products that professional photographers might be involved with. I'm

not sure what other films might be included in your description of

"films such as Tri-X." A significant change in silver content of

traditional B/W films would be accompanied by a significant change in

other characteristics --tone reproduction, contrast, and granularity,

for example. Consistency of product has always been a prime goal in

the manufacture of Tri-X products, and, over the years, comparisons of

Kodak products with other manufacturers' products have shown Kodak to

be consistently ahead of other manufacturers in this regard. Any

"breakthrough" in technology that would allow a significant change in

the silver content or image structure would be better introduced to

the public as a new product than as a "secret" change to the Tri-X

films. In fact, such a breakthrough was introduced with the T-Max

films. Although some people within the company expected sales of

Tri-X would tail off following the introduction of the T-Max films and

that the products would be discontinued due to lack of sales, this has

not happened.

 

The current "best practice" for manufacturing these products is to

control the characteristics of all the materials going into the

product, and to control all parts of the manufacturing process so that

the "standard" product formulation will produce product with

consistent characteristics every time. This has been found to work

better than the procedure used in past years, when the film

formulation engineer had the freedom to "tweak" a component slightly

to compensate for apparent changes in raw materials in order to make

the resulting product closer to established aims. So it is probably

not true to say that a particular Tri-X product has always had the

exact same silver level for the past 30 or 40 years. But based on my

experience for the last 20 or so, I doubt that there would be any

variations greater than 5%, and certainly no permanent, intentional

level shift.

 

If you should have additional questions, please be sure to revisit our

site as we are continually adding information to enhance our support.

 

For immediate answers to commonly asked questions, please visit:

http://kodak.broaddaylight.com/kodakprofessional/index.html

 

For product and technical information, service, support, and downloads:

http://www.kodak.com/go/professional

 

For information on ProPass Magazine:

http://www.kodak.com/go/propass

 

 

Regards,

 

Peter V.

Kodak Information and Technical Support

Kodak Professional

Ph. 800-242-2424 ext. 19

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Thanks for posting this reply from Kodak. It's a great reference point in the debate over stability of commercial developers & changes in Tri-X.

 

There are sometimes postings on this site by "knowledgeable" professionals that are based soley on their own opinions. That's OK - as long as it's not presented as fact. Unfortunately, that distinction is not always made. By going to a manufacturer and posting their reply, you've added valuable information, thanks.

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Thanks for posting. I particularly found this bit interesting:

 

<p><i>some people within the company expected sales of Tri-X would tail off following the introduction of the T-Max films</i>

 

<p>Since Tri-X and TMax 400 have very different properties, it's rather interesting what the views inside Kodak were.

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<I>Since Tri-X and TMax 400 have very different properties, it's rather interesting what the views inside Kodak were.</i><P>I'm curious as well since the intro of TMX and TMY were before Kodak managers starting making suicide leaps from buildings.<P>These films have significant differences in density range which affects their tonal quality. TMX I can live with - TMY I've learned ignore since I can under-expose Tri-X and get the same tonality.
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1. The research that created Kodak TMAX films was specifically initiated in the 1980's as a result of the massive increase in silver prices during the early 1980's (even though the price of silver came back down).

 

2. All manufacturers (of any product) try to use as few as possible raw materials in the manufacturing process. They sometimes test the limits of improving the manufacturing process, and only back off when people complain or problems occur. Kodak has been in cost cutting mode for a long time and they certainly have been cutting costs whenever possible. Any company that did not try to use the least amount of raw materials (especially expensive materials like silver) has completely incompetent management.

 

3. Anyone who thinks that the person who answers a particular question put to Kodak Technical Support knows of everything that has happened in Kodak over the years, or knows why every decision was made, or that their view is the only one and true "Kodak" view, is seriously misinformed and living in fantasy world.

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