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Kodachrome Shooters-Does Kodak Care About Us?


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<p>I think if Kodak has kept Kodachrome around for this long they care.....Do all of you that are bringing up Kodachrome know about The Kodachrome Project and The Kodachorme Project Forums. You can find them at: <a href="http://www.kodachromeproject.com/pages/contents.html">http://www.kodachromeproject.com/pages/contents.html</a> and <a href="http://www.kodachromeproject.com/forum/index.php">http://www.kodachromeproject.com/forum/index.php</a> If you join in with us, you will learn and share more than you knew there was to know about Kodachrome. It is such a great place!</p>
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<p>If you really want Kodachrome to survive there is one very simple thing you must do: buy, shoot and have more Kodachrome processed. How many of you shoot more than a handful of rolls i na year? You each need to get it up --way up like into the 500 rolls or more per year basis.</p>

<p>Whining and kvetching and getting "thorny" won't do it. You have to prove it is still a viable commercial product. The more they sel of the stuff, the more they have to make and the cost of manufacturing stabilizes or goes down.</p>

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<p>While there may be some specific people at Kodak who have a love for Kodachrome (or some other specific film) at the end of the day, it's just a product that they are selling. If they sell enough of it to make a profit, they are happy with the product. If they lose money, then it's a thorn.</p>

<p>To echo Ellis (and my own previous comments) if you want Kodachrome to stick around, buy/use more Kodachrome and convince others to buy/use Kodachrome. If they are making enough of it, they will continue to sel it. The only variable in this equasion would be Dwaynes and the fact that they are the only ones who are still processing Kodachrome anywhere int he world. But as Dwaynes is likely making a tidy profit off of that distinction and nobody has heard them breathe a word of quitting, I think it is a non issue.</p>

<p>In short, buy more Kodachrome. Using 25 rolls a year won't cut it. And I seriously doubt many film photographers are even using that much.</p>

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<p>Ellis,<br />I'm sure you've probably shot tons more Kodachrome during your career than I ever will during mine. 500, or even 100 rolls per year is going to be really tough for me. I'll do it if I can get a grant. But let's be honest with ourselves here...most of us are not high volume Kodachrome shooters. I'm lucky if I can buy, shoot, and process 50 rolls of Kodachrome in a single year. But take a bunch of 50-roll-a-year shooters, add them up, and every little bit helps. At the very least, it certainly won't hurt and is better than shooting 10 or 20 rolls a year.</p>

<p>So, anyone who shoots Kodachrome, whether that is 10 rolls a year or 10,000 a year, I strongly encourage you to join the forums that Patrick provided a link to. The more new low-volume shooters there are, the more rolls will be sold, and the film might have a shot at sticking around a bit longer.</p>

<p>By the way, if anyone knows how to apply for a grant, please help me out. All I want is enough to shoot and process a few hundred rolls, and I'll come up with a really worthwhile idea for a book project or something.</p>

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<p>500, or even 100 rolls per year is going to be really tough for me.</p>

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<p>And only selling a few thousand rolls a year is going to be really tough for Kodak (I'm just making a point, I have no idea how many rolls they sell). Just as you don't have the money to buy and process 500 rolls a year, they don't have the money to produce and then not sell a product.</p>

<p>Of course every little bit helps. But it's an uphill battle, and as such, Kodachrome shooters are going to have to do more than their share if they want to see the film survive. There just aren't enough 10, 20 or 50 roll shooters out there. People like Daniel at the kodachromeproject have made a mission of making people aware of the film. More Kodachrome shooters are going to have to do the same thing.</p>

<p>If you want Kodachrome to stick around, buy/use more Kodachrome and convince others to buy/use Kodachrome.</p>

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<p>I have a very simple goal this year - to buy a 35mm film SLR, a bunch of Kodachrome, and photograph the Kodachrome Basin in Utah. I've got the camera, and will be placing the order for the film this month, for the trip in June.<br>

Looking forward to documenting a magical place with a magical namesake.</p>

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<p>Josh,<br />Talk about doing more than our share...I've very recently pretty much ceased shooting any other color slide film now, and am sinking most of my film money into Kodachrome 64 and will be shooting it almost exclusively for the next couple of months. That said, I'm still not likely to rack up more than 30 rolls or so over the next few months. I'm glad there are still a few high volume shooters out there.</p>

<p>Nicholas: As for whether that new film is indeed a new run, we don't really know for sure and we cannot be totally sure yet. Let's not start rumors until we have had it confirmed somehow...unless you know something that the rest of us do not.</p>

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<p>I use more than 25 per year. I shoot the least in the Winter but I stocked up all winter long and this summer I am going to go nuts! I'll be out of school and will be able to pretty much shoot as much as I desire! I can't wait. I am much more into photography now than I was last summer so we'll see!</p>
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<p>What I don't understand is, why is Dwayne's the only company processing Kodachrome? Is K14 a secret process that Dwayne's made an exclusive agreement for? Or is there not enough volume for anybody else to bother? Or is it really difficult or requiring special equipment and nobody wants to do it? Or all of the above? Can you get the chemicals for K14 and do it yourself or is it some hideous process involving a bunch of steps that you need to be a chemist with several precision temperature baths, an autoclave and a centrifuge to do? I know Kodak originally sold the film packaged with the prcessing mailer but the courts killed that decades ago...</p>
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<p>Or is there not enough volume for anybody else to bother?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I think that was the case for some number of smaller Kodachrome processors.</p>

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<p>Or is it really difficult or requiring special equipment and nobody wants to do it?</p>

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<p>Well it requires a K14 machine which is larger and more complex than an E6 machine and requires much more knowledge than the average minilab employee likely has.</p>

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<p>Can you get the chemicals for K14 and do it yourself or is it some hideous process involving a bunch of steps that you need to be a chemist with several precision temperature baths, an autoclave and a centrifuge to do?</p>

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<p>It's pretty long and hideous. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-14_process">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-14_process</a> As far as I know, it is not home processable in any reasonable way.</p>

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<p>as I read in the distant past, someone not at kodak DID procedd kodachrome at home . but there was no report on his sucess.<br>

so it may have been a failure.<br>

I recall that Ilford, at one time may have had a similar process or a compatible film. but I have chased that and nobody knows<br>

DYNACHROME was compatible with the asa 10 kodachrome "a almost clone " but came out at the end of the asa 10 era or right after the start of Kodachrome II ( asa 25) It may have been done on machines purchased as suplus from Kodak or someone else.<br>

I read the article several years ago and the details escape me. Dynachrome was not as bright as Kodachrome asa 10.. but the asa10 & 16 (type A) films were what the home movie people were used to.<br>

In the 1950's many places did Kodachrome, and I suspect some pooled one process or another and one type was done in one lab and the other processes done somewhere else. With cars getting 15mpg and gas at 29 cents. they could move a lot of film around.<br>

National Geographic supposedly had their own kodachrome setup.<br>

and I think various government agencies did also.<br>

One of the things that Kicked slide film in the head was a lack of reversal paper.<br>

True Dwayne's will scan at the time of processing, and then anyone can print it.</p>

<p>I have an unfinished roll of K64 in my viewmaster camera and don't know if they will scan it.<br>

or will I have to photograph it with color print film?<br>

Lastly if two musicians could create it and develop it in a hotel room. how hard could it be.<br>

( ok I KNOW it is a extremely difficult process</p>

<p> </p>

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<blockquote>

<p>I have a very simple goal this year - to buy a 35mm film SLR, a bunch of Kodachrome, and photograph the Kodachrome Basin in Utah. I've got the camera, and will be placing the order for the film this month, for the trip in June.<br />Looking forward to documenting a magical place with a magical namesake.</p>

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<p>That was on my list during a month long road trip last Fall. It is a worthy place to shoot Kodachrome..:-)</p><div>00T1Y2-123615584.jpg.b035c394a8c7ff8e07b37b7966d8bcd9.jpg</div>

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<p>Kodak is paying 100% attention to Kodachrome and it's current fanfare. It is a hall mark product for them, some of the best advertising they have and it turns 75 next year. The current batch that just shipped to the outlets has an expiration of 07/2010. I am making a trip out to Rochester pretty soon to talk with them about ideas and proprietary information / marketing. <br>

But bottom line, use it. It's like falling in love with a girl that you want to keep around forever. If you are worried every day you are with her that she will leave, then you will have squandered the very thing that is the gift you have, the here and now.</p>

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<p>Kodak tried to market the K-Lab processor in the early 90s, but by that point, E-6 had taken enough of a hold that maybe only 20 or 30 were sold. The K-lab was designed to be similar to a minilab, so users wouldn't have to worry about all the complicated mixing and temperature and agitation controls. However, demand decreased, and most were shut down by around 2002; soon after, Kodak stopped selling the bag-in-box chemicals the K-lab needed to run. AFAIK, Dwayne's mixes their own chemicals, so they weren't constrained by this loss. A couple places have them for sale for around $20,000, but unless you want to bother mixing chemicals, they're worth only their value as scrap metal. It is most certainly possible to do it at home, however, controlling agitation, getting and mixing the proper chemicals and getting the reexposures right isn't worth it. I believe that about half the chemicals can be bought off the shelf, and the rest you half to mix yourself. It probably helps to have some chemistry training. IIRC, up until the 50s, there were dip and dunk Kodachrome processors, which allowed for Kodachrome up to 11x14 sheet film. As an interesting side note, Kodak maintains a Kodachrome line at their Rochester plant for on site testing. </p>
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<p>Back in 1973 a couple of timesI once shot 3 dozen rolls of 36 exp Kodachrome in one hour; using several preloaded Nikons. One eveent was a lunar eclipse; another an air show. The first roll I show as is the 1950's; Old Kodachrome at asa 10. Ponder that today one cannot buy Kodachrome locally except via mailorder in most places; once every drugs store sold it. The largest retail store in the USA doesnt carry it anymore; ie Walmart. Kmarts once sold it; Walgreens did too and Sears. Hudsons in Detroit sold it once; they had a compete camera section too.<br>

If Kodak was really serious about Kodachrome they might explore having a few select retail chains carrying a couple rolls.</p>

<p>Its a great film but its not going to be around if sales continue to drop off.</p>

<p>There is a minimum production volume required to keep a production line open; ie one making a product with a limited shelf life; a product that only one lab in the world processes.<br>

I have shot boatloads of Kodachrome slides; now its just a trickle. I use to order big bricks of the stuff; all of one emulsion number. There was a big stink in the mid 1950's when Kodachrome was dropped in sheet formats; actually lawsuits too to Prove that that newer E series transparencys were equalvalent.<br>

Once there were well over a dozen Kodak Kodachrome labs; plus many independents too. There are many customers I scan slides for that have not shot a slide in a decade; or two decades; some three.<br>

Products survive due to sales volume; not hot air and memories of old times.</p>

<p>The K14 process is super expensive to maintain; thats why onely one lab exists anymore; ie due to a trickle of volume. There is not enough volume to support several labs; unless folks are willing to shell out 100 bucks per roll. It is about money; cash flow. One has many millions of dollars of capital equipment to feed with cash flow to support its upkeep; its workers; its chemicals; its lightbil; its calibrations. Thus when the lone lab cannot support the beast; the plug will be pulled in making new emulsions.</p>

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<p>CVS use to sell Elite Chrome. They stopped because they can now longer process it for you (have it sent out through Qualex.). Maybe they could get WalMart to sell it....My WalMarts are slowly getting rid of all of the Kodak film they sell. They use to have Ultra Color and HD 400 but they just did away with both.</p>
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<p>K-14 lines have to run at capacity, or the chemicals go bad quickly. Many of the baths are wickedly unstable. There isn't enough volume left to support running more than one K-14 line.<br>

Kodak used to have the documentation on the K-Lab on their website -- it was still an intimidating beast. The procedures for dealing with film breaks are particularly gruesome, turning out the lights, putting on the IR goggles, and yanking film out of the beast and putting into big buckets of chemistry you keep at the ready "just in case".<br>

I think Kodachrome may well be Kodak's only "charity case" film. I doubt it makes a profit, and is probably subsidized by other products. If so, it's probably the only Kodak film that still gets cross-subsidies.<br>

The implosion of Qualex means that there's a lot less guys driving around picking up and dropping off film for central labs, so there's no "courier" path to Dwayne's for K-14. Wal-Mart must handle their own logistics for getting film from their stores to and from Dwayne's, which handles most or all of their "out lab" work.<br>

If you deal directly with Dwaynes, you can amortize the shipping costs over multiple rolls by sending more than one at a time.</p>

 

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<p>"But bottom line, use it. It's like falling in love with a girl that you want to keep around forever. If you are worried every day you are with her that she will leave, then you will have squandered the very thing that is the gift you have, the here and now."</p>

<p>Nice wording. And just to expand on the metaphor a bit: the answer is not to leave her before she has the chance to leave you--if everyone did that, there wouldn't still be Kodachrome in production. The answer is to treat her (or him for the ladies out there reading this) the way you want to be treated. In other words, use Kodachrome, or whatever film you decide to use, to the best of your current abilities and respect it...and it will reward you back by bringing out your best. Yet, when it comes time to say goodbye, one has to be mature and detatched, knowing that all the effort you put in to the past made it worth it even though the relationship is over. Kodachrome is just a photographic medium. It's the resulting images and what you got out of your time with the medium that really matter.</p>

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<p>As to the original question, the answer is both. There ares still people at Kodak who care about Kodachrome, but they are also well aware of the very small but vocal group who want to keep Kodachrome alive forever. In the long run, the only thing that is likely to keep the product alive is an <b>increase</b> in sales. In the short term, it might prove embarrassing for Kodak to discontinue the product line in it's 75th anniversary. People at Kodak have noticed Daniel Bayer's <a href="http://www.kodachromeproject.com/">Kodachrome Project</a>, the frequent and lengthy discussions in this and other forums, and my little <a href="http://ronald.andrews.googlepages.com/kodachrome">K-75 Kodachrome Celebration</a> site. Publicity helps, but publicity that generates more sales will help much more.</p>
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<p>When it is deep sixed, I will miss it for it's speed as much as for it's beauty. As a shooter of mechanical cameras, it's pretty basic to select film speed for light and lenses. A bother digital surpasses, but to me it's part of the joy. Select film, a look I'm trying to get, load it and listen to the whir of gears and and wheels as the fractions of seconds tick by.</p>

<p>Somehow, but I don't know how, this is related. Even in the age of the Jetsons, Cogsly's Cogs and Spacely's Sprockets exist, mechanical things, and so should Kodachrome.</p>

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