keep d810 or upgrade to 850 or z7ii?

As my diamond jubilee birthday is tomorrow, and my wife said she didn't know what to get me, would a new camera be something I'd want?...ok, that's the premise of this.

I have been using my d810 for a few years now and generally happy with it. However, I do recognize that technology has advanced, and feel mirrorless is the future. Still, trying to decide IF I want to upgrade, and then to what is confusing with many pluses and minuses to consider.

I have too much Nikon glass to consider jumping ship to another marque-not that I'd want to. I will likely buy new.

The pluses for the 810 are the pop up flash, it's paid for, and I have 2 batteries and chargers for it. I use that flash quite a bit for fill, and i've never run out of battery. That said, I am still very happy with the 810, but I recognize that its tech is getting old.

Pluses for the 850 and Z7ii are the tilt screen, I miss that on the 810 a lot. More dynamic range is always better

Negative for the 850 and Z is the necessity of a flash. Negative for the Z is battery life, necessity for a F mount adapter.

PLus for the 850 is an optical VF; negative for the z is an EVF with possible lag---I do not shoot sports, but I do shoot street and Mardi Gras and there is often some fairly quick action to catch.

And the Z is many more $$$ than an 850, but may be more "future proof" and in the long run may be a more prudent purchase?

As far as the size/weight factor, I don't think that will be much of a deciding factor.

I know I am all over the board here, but I think some of you have made that same decision.

Thoughts? Am I missing something to consider?

Are there any older F mount lenses that do not work on the Z...I still use my 55/3.5 macro a lot, and my 20/2.8 a fair amiount, and on occasion a 50/2 Nikkor H.

Thanks for any insight.

Just found the manual for the FTZ adapter...incompatible with my 55 micro nikkor. Does the FTZ slow down the attached lens, ie, does a f/2.8 lens become a f/4?

Are there any older F mount lenses that do not work on the Z...I still use my 55/3.5 macro a lot, and my 20/2.8 a fair amiount, and on occasion a 50/2 Nikkor H.

Those can be adapted, can't they? If not via the FTZ, then certainly via some third-party adapter. Not really sure what the issue with non-AI lenses and the FTZ is - maybe interference with the CPU contacts? And there's this on John White's website: Compatibility Table that contradicts Nikon's warning.

 

feel mirrorless is the future

Certainly is. But are you willing to deal with adapted lenses for some time to come? Or are you prepared to dump what you have and go all out on new lenses too? I have tried adapted and didn't like it much. Moving into a new system all at once gets expensive really fast. But the Z7II will work best with native lenses, no doubt about that.

 

And the Z is many more $$$ than an 850, but may be more "future proof" and in the long run may be a more prudent purchase?

So you are going to replace the D810 with either the D850 or the Z7II, not add to it? I have put off the full transition to mirrorless (though I have a A7RIII and three zoom lenses) - I just can't let go of what I have and don't see that a transition at this point in time is wise. With Sony, to get the performance I want/need, I'd have to get a A9II or even the A1. With Nikon, I would have to bet on the Z9 or a possible Z8 coming sometime, but probably not before 2022. So I am planning on sticking with what I have for a bit longer (the D850 was something of an impulse purchase to satisfy my want and not an actual urgent need).

 

I am still very happy with the 810, but I recognize that its tech is getting old.

So we have the lack of tilt screen and the advantage of the on-board flash. The issue of OVF vs EVF. Battery life for the Z. What other advantages over the D810 are you expecting from the D850 and/or the Z7II?

 

More dynamic range is always better

I don't think there's an significant difference there.

 

I just added a D850 to my D810 and D500. Not to actually replace the D810 but more as a competitor to the D500 for avian photography. Downside of the D850 is the lower fps but the main upside for me was the wider FOV that makes it easier to find birds in flight in the viewfinder. In terms of handling, I like that the D850 and the D500 are virtually indistinguishable from each other from a UI standpoint. And I can crop either about the same. To me it is hard to compare the D810 and the D850. While the D810 is a more refined version of the D800/D800E (in more ways than is obvious from comparing specs); the D850 feels like a totally different camera. More responsive, better and faster AF, fast XQD/CFx card if needed. The thought of getting a Z7II instead never even entered my mind as for my particular application, I fear that the Z7II isn't up to the task.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Dieter Schaefer

Buy yourself a good lens.

I'd go 180 degrees get something completely different in every way.

There is no optical issue with adapting F-mount lenses to Z. I think the admonition to get optimum performance by using native Z-mount lenses is misplaced. AF-S F-mount lenses focus on the FTZ instantly and give beautiful IQ on the Z's sensor. And manual focus lenses are far easier to focus with the EVF than they are with a DSLR. If you have a non-AI lens that you are reluctant to use on the FTZ, just buy a $200 manual focus adapter (with a close focusing helical) by Kipon (I got mine from B&H).

 

I moved from a D700 to a Z6, and all of my gripes about the Z6 are ergonomics related (I miss the concentric lock switch around the focus point keypad, I miss the little three position switch for AF-C, AF-S and MF), I think the slightly larger D700 is actually more comfortable to hold, etc.) But the IQ and focus performance, in either AF or MF, is clearly better. I was skeptical of EVFs for a long time too, but the Z's EVF is the best I've ever seen and honestly I don't miss the OVF of my D700 at all.

Just found the manual for the FTZ adapter...incompatible with my 55 micro nikkor.

 

I wonder why it says the 55mm micro is incompatible? What could make it so?

 

Does the FTZ slow down the attached lens, ie, does a f/2.8 lens become a f/4?

 

No. The FTZ does not change the aperture range or the focal length of a lens.

I recall a cotraveller cursing his D750's LV AF "speed", so I worry the D850's won't make you happy / keep you desiring a more capable MILC.

Just found the manual for the FTZ adapter...incompatible with my 55 micro nikkor. Does the FTZ slow down the attached lens, ie, does a f/2.8 lens become a f/4?

I have the old Micro-Nikkor P Auto 55mm/3.5 (non-Ai). It mounts and works fine on the FTZ adapter. If I recall correctly, Nikon states that the FTZ is incompatible with non-Ai lenses in general in the manual. I have quite a few of those and none have given me trouble.

The 55mm/3.5 is sweet, never give up on that lens!

I use my Nikkor Ai 20/3.5 and it works very well, as do my 50/2 H.C (non-ai) - no problems with the FTZ what so ever.

The FTZ has no optical elements, only electrical contacts, so it doesn't slow down or degrade anything with regards to optical qualities.

I should mention that the only difficulties I've had with lenses on my Z6 are AF and AF-D (focus screw) lenses. They won't autofocus with the FTZ and while you can manually focus them, of course, they have much worse manual focus feel and generally shorter (less precise) manual focus throws than Ai and Ai-S lenses. I own a 28mm f/1.4 AF-D, a 60mm f/2.8 AF and 85mm f/1.4 AF-D lens, each of which have a somewhat delicate plastic A/M focus ring that's prone to cracking, and short manual focus throws with poor feel. I have just this week been playing with the Megadap AF adapter, which provides some measure of autofocus for both AF/AF-D lenses as well as Ai/Ai-S lenses. My initial usage suggests that in good light on contrasty subjects with a large aperture autofocus is fast and accurate (albeit very noisy) --- accurate enough for even critical sharpness at f/1.2 on the 58mm Noct-Nikkor --- but in low light or on flat subjects or stopped down the autofocus is hit or miss and like stepping back 25 years. I'll make a more full report in a few weeks when I've had more experience with more lenses in more situations.

 

Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/1.2 Ai on Nikon Z6 with Megadap AF Adapter, single point autofocus at f/1.2, 1/4000 sec, ISO 100

I can't remember if I have tried a non-AI lens on my FTZ, probably not. For most manual focus lenses, I actually prefer cheap aftermarket F to Z adaptors, they are a bit less bulky. No problem with pre-ai lenses on those. Using the zoom magnification feature in the Z, I get a much higher percentage of in focus photos with the Z than I did with my D810 and manual lenses.

 

I bought a Z6 to build a small/light system around for a trip that would involve much walking while carrying everything. After the trip, I found that I was picking up the Z6 more often than my D810 for general photography, so I sold the D810. I think I get a higher percentage of portraits with preferred eye in focus with the Z6, and it works better with my Nikon and other system manual focus lenses that I still use regularly, including a 55/3.5.

 

I have not found viewfinder lag to be an issue except when shooting sports at 5FPS. Maybe there are some settings I have not optimized for this situation.

 

There have been a few occasions where a built in fill flash would be handy, but the Z6 is very good at high ISO, I think better than the D810.

 

For shooting sports, I still have a D3s, D3x, and D500. Probably a D850 could replace all of those, but I am not shooting sports much any more. When COVID is over and events are on again, I would use a Z7/14-30S & Z6/short tele or zoom. Fell into a deal on the Z7, so now I have two Z bodies.

 

For my hobby, I really don't miss the DSLRs. Prior to digital, I had moved (backward?) from Nikon F (manual focus) to rangefinder cameras. I feel like I am back to the small/light/compact precise focusing systems I had back then with AF added in as a bonus.

Samuel, thanks for the post on the Megadap, please do an in depth posting when you can.

 

I am down to two AF-D lenses that I would like to be able to use on the Z with AF, an 105/2DC and 180/2.8. I agree that manual focus on those AF lenses is not great, but the 180 is not too bad. Clearly original manual focus lenses are better - for manual focus.

 

I guess I could replace the DC with a 105/1.4, and use a 70-200 instead of the 180.

Those can be adapted, can't they? If not via the FTZ, then certainly via some third-party adapter. Not really sure what the issue with non-AI lenses and the FTZ is -

snip

like a totally different camera. More responsive, better and faster AF, fast XQD/CFx card if needed. The thought of getting a Z7II instead never even entered my mind as for my particular application, I fear that the Z7II isn't up to the task.

Wow! thanks...great insight. much appreciated.

What I didn't put in was that I bought the d810 used and "certified by Nikon." On delivery the battery charger didn't work, so I couldn't even play much with the camera, and all of the previous owner's info was still in the camera. That told me that Nikon certification meant nothing, at least in this case. I contacted them, sent if back to them and this time the camera came back fine and has performed flawlessly since. The only "issue" (and that is way too strong a word) is that the mount is a bit tight, or tighter than my d700 was, or my F3T or my Photomic Tn). But again, no functional issues. Still that expereince taught me to buy new next time. Of course, my experience could be a one of, and others' mileage will vary, still it left a bad taste.

I do find myself running out of dynamic range a little, but that could be me, or expecting too much after being wowed by it for years; familiarity can breed undue criticism.

Dieter, thanks for your thoughtful response.

John

Buy yourself a good lens.

I am very satisfied with the glass I have. IN additon to the old lenses mentioned I have the 24-70/2.8 ( my GoTo for most shooting), the 16-35/4 that I love, the 70-200 vr2, the 85/1.8, the 35/1.8 G. I could upgrade my 50/2, but I really like the painterly look to the images I get from it...and I don't use the 50 prime that much.

I'd go 180 degrees get something completely different in every way.

a mysterious answer... :-)

Don't understand? My other camera is a Sony RX100/2.

Elaborate?

snip

just buy a $200 manual focus adapter (with a close focusing helical) by Kipon

I moved from a D700 to a Z6, and all of my gripes about the Z6 are ergonomics related .

Thanks

I moved from the D700 to the 810. Yours is an interesting comment about ergos that I appreciate.

I've learned that I have Nikon hands, not Canon nor Sony. My fingers know where the buttons and switches are on the Nikon. I would be concerned that the ergos of any new camera may be more troublesome, even if for a short time, than I'd like. I suspect that would not be an issue with the 850 after a 700 and an 810. Also, I like the heft of the 810, and something lighter may throw off balancing it.

Re a second adapter, that would be something else to carry.

If I am doing a shoot I carry my stuff in a 1450 pelican case and usually that includes the 55. Carrying another thing would be a hassle since for either of the trade ups a flash would accompany. If I am just shooting for fun or insta, I usually choose one lens and make that work. I like to go minimal. I appreciate the advice.

I recall a cotraveller cursing his D750's LV AF "speed", so I worry the D850's won't make you happy / keep you desiring a more capable MILC.

Hi, Jochen,

If I am using Live View I am focusing manually. AF speed in LV is a non-issue for me, if I am reading you correctly.

The 55mm/3.5 is sweet, never give up on that lens!

 

Man, you have that right! That's why when I saw that, it was close to a deal breaker.

I appreciate all the insights offered and after digesting them I am thinking that ergos may be the most important factor. I need to go play with both cameras with my 24-70 on them. IN days of covid that is harder than it should be.

I looked at the specs (somewhere) and it looks like the sensor specs of the 850 and the z7ii are the same? Is that right?

I need to add also for clarity this will be my only camera. I consider my little sony the camera I choose if I want to pocket a camera, and then next in line is my Samsung Note 9 smartphone

IQ of the 810 vs the 850 vs the Z7ii?

Elaborate?

You have a D810. If you get the D850 you will have two cameras that look and function almost identically, except one is slightly better. I would tend to use the better of the two and park the D810 for good. Something completely different though, maybe with Art Filters, Scene Modes, Black & White Filters, would give you something fun and different to switch off too sometimes. I have five rather old digital cameras and I enjoy using a different camera/lens combination every day.

looks like the sensor specs of the 850 and the z7ii are the same? Is that right?

Can’t be the same sensor as the Z7/Z7II have the phase-detect AF elements on the sensor.

IQ of the 810 vs the 850 vs the Z7ii?

Just enough higher MP count to make a difference - for most practical purposes IQ is identical.

bought the d810 used and "certified by Nikon."

my D850 is refurbished directly from Nikon; both D810 and D500 were purchased used at the local camera store. Over the years, I’d say it’s been 50:50 new:used/refurb. A used 17-55/2.8 from keh was the only one I had to sent back because it failed on the first try-out.

like the heft of the 810, and something lighter may throw off balancing it

The Z7II is significantly smaller and lighter - though the grip on it works surprisingly well. Still it’s smaller than I like.

Trying out a 7Zii plus adaptor would probably make sense before taking the plunge into mirrorless. My local camera stores (B&H and Adorama) both would allow a tryout, so hopefully there is a similar store near the OP. A rental would also make sense before buying, though the cost for a week rental of a 7Zii plus adaptor would run in excess of $200, but would really provide a much better trial than playing with the camera at a store for a few minutes as the salesperson looks on.

John, happy birthday. Since I bought my Z6 in November 2018, as soon as it was available, I have been using a mix of Nikon DSLRs and that Z6 in the last 2.5 years. I have 5 Nikon Z lenses. To me, switching back and forth is no issue at all, but your mileage may vary. I seriously doubt that I'll buy another Nikon F-mount product, but I already have many F-mount cameras and lenses that should last me a few more years.

I moved from D850 to Z7. The weight saving is significant, and the IQ is pretty much identical. Add in in body image stabilization for my old manual lenses (through FTZ adapter) and it has been a real plus. I did go to the Z 24-70 f2.8, for more weight saving. It has been a good switch.

Most of buying stuff falls in 3 categories: Want, Need and Good Enough. Decide it for yourself, but if you go mirrorless way, don't kid yourself, you will always want/need Z-lenses, so plan accordingly:)