K10D Focusing, Part II

After returning my first K10D due to the focusing problem detailed here: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-

and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Ozq1 , I received its replacement in the mail this week.

 

Naturally, the first thing I did was set up some shots at wide-open apertures to test the focusing. And the

new camera has the exact same issues the old one did. The focus is even off by the same amount. Rats.

 

At this point, I'm going to give Pentax USA a call about it Monday. It's obviously an entire defective lot of

cameras. It's probably pointless to send this one back, as any others Adorama might still in stock are

probably from the same lot.

 

I'm sort of surprised that I've not been able to find any other mention of this issue on the web. Perhaps I'm

unusually particular about focus. Perhaps some of the "autofocus problems" being reported are actually

this defect in disguise (since it affects both auto and manual focusing).

 

All I know is, I've _never_ had this kind of difficulty with focus with either of the two film SLR bodies I

currently own or the one I previously owned.

 

Sigh.

''I'm sort of surprised that I've not been able to find any other mention of this issue on the web.''

 

I have never heard of this with any pentax.

Is it possible that you have a defective lens?

What type of lens is it that your testing it wide open?

Is it possible that the k10d is fine, and it is time for glasses? ;) ;)

I was contemplating placing an order for a K10D with Adorama next week. Did you discuss the problem with anyone at Adorama, and, if so, what response did you receive?

Adorama K10D is back up to $800.

 

B&H K20D is down to $1,150 in cart.

 

For $350 difference you might consider K20D instead.

 

I'd guess your experience with 2 K10D remainders signal a bad batch of K10D was created at end of production run last year.

 

http://www.adorama.com/IPXK10D.html

Here's your first thread first k10D:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Ozq1

 

Your 1st Thread's last poster Jonathan Jones had the same problems you have. He cash'd out of a decade use of pentax system due to similar problems with his newly issued K10D in late 2006. He had zero problems with the D80 he traded k10D for, so that kinda rules out a "vision" problem.

 

Lindy

Sorry you didn't find it, I posted exactly on the same issue about one month ago, and

found out from Pentax Europe that they know well about this "Back-focus problem". In my

case, on a Pentax 50 f 1.4 the real focus at infinity was about at the right end of the

infinity mark rather than at its center.

 

My camera is one of the early ones, so it is not an issue with the end of production. I also

believed my lenses had gone soft (I thought about Olympus and their telecentric burble

being right about how bad conventional lenses were with digital sensors) and basically

threw away a lot of pics from a costly trip to China, cursing my stinginess not to buy new

lenses.

 

Also, I suspect this is the cause of the refusal to focus on some lenses in some conditions I

described in a couple of posts. In this case there is a faint noise as if the controller tried to

strt the focussing motor and it couldn't. I think this is a sign that it tries to go beyond

infinity and it can't. This is a real pain in the @@@ as if you are in autofocus the machine

doesn't shoot.

 

About other brands not having the problem, I saw posts in other fora, for instance about

Canon having this problem in the past.

 

I have now bought a k20D (I did not want to since the K10 was almost new, but I had since

I was leaving to Japan, and I did not want to go there getting crazy with correcting focus

with multiple shots to be sure I got a good one.

 

The k20d is better, but since I could not do real tests in the hurry before leaving, I want to

do thorough testing and will relate about it on this forum. Please let me know of any info/

solution. Apparently it can be fixed in the lab, but this did not work for me since (teaching

for all european readers) I bought it from Pixmania Belgium and the Belgian importer did

not want to get it since he said Pixmania did not buy from Pentax Belgium. I called Pentax

Europe, and initially they were sympathetic and told me what to tell the Belgian importer,

then he reneged because he said the Belgian importer had explained his problem, and

suggested me to send it to Pentax Europe in Hamburg AT MY EXPENSE). So the bloody

importers are really getting in the way of good service. I'll see what I can do about this

from the legal point of view. Any other examples of similar behaviours from other

European readers are welcome to build the case.

 

BTW, before knowing I bought it from Pixmania the repair guy from Pentax Belgium told

me to send the camera WITH ALL MY LENSES. This seems strange. Can the focus system be

tweaked for each lens, or can they adjust something on each lens to match the camera?

 

Maurizio

I have just started doing some tests on the k20d, and I found a confirmation of the fact

that

the problem on the K10D refusing to shoot is related to the backfocus.

 

I just tried shooting at the 55 end of the 18-55 kit lens, and the focus went spot on to

infinity. Then I moved to 18 mm and I saw the focus going BEYOND inifinity. So it is clear

that

on the backfocussed K10D it tries to go beyond the limit and it is blocked, so it cannot get

to

what it thinks is in focus, and it doesn't shoot.

 

So, if one has a problem like this it is a possible sign of backfocus problems. BTW, they

might be of different magnitude, and therefore, some could not find as big a problem with

the focus, yet have the focus blockage problem.

"S Arena": It's almost certainly not my eyes; as I mentioned, I have no problem focusing

properly with my ZX-M or my MX.

 

"Jim Nichols": Adorama immediately exchanged my camera for another when I reported

the original problem to them. Unfortunately, the replacement has the same problem. I

doubt another exchange is going to resolve the issue.

 

"Maurizio Maggiore": my guess is that more naîve users go one step further than blaming

the lens and think "that's just the way it is" and accept the problem. So what we have at

play here is low standards enabling poor quality control.

 

Note that the kit lens being able to focus beyond infinity doesn't necessarily point to a lens

or camera defect. Some lenses, particularly newer autofocus ones, are like that. If (like me)

an old manual lens that stops at infinity on an old film body goes beyond infinity on the

K10D, however, you probably have a problem.

The 50mm is an M series and not autofocus therefore stops at infinity, (and for some reason

the right focus is BEFORE infinity) the 18-55 and 12-24, on which I mostly have the problem

of not being able to go ENOUGH beyond inifinity at the wide end are autofocus. On the K20D

the available amount beyond infinity is enough, on the K10D, due to the rear focus, they

would need to go still further and they get stuck.

As I recall, AF lenses are designed to go beyond infinity. The mis-alignment of the K10D should be fixed by Pentax service.

 

It appears the problem has been successfully addressed with the design of the K20D.

BTW, I have seen much prior discussion of back/front focus issues with both Canon and Nikon models.

Indeed, I've read about the canon focus issues. Ultimately you have to send body and all lenses in to have them callibrated to one another. The new 5D, unissued and no rumors yet confirmed, is supposed to have an abilty to adjust the sensor for up to 15 lenses. I think the Nikon D3 has this too? I kinda remember the Nikon rep saying sensor position was adjustable. If true for new 5D then this might be worth the "be first on my block to get it" upcharge. All dslrs should have a sensor adjustment/memory feature.

 

I await price and rebates launch in about 10 days. I think they'll blow 5D out as low as $1500 after incentives so it'll be near impossible to skip getting an old 2005 era full frame dslr. I do not have a front focus back focus problem with Eos-3 film body and my 3 autofocus function lenses. Maybe film is more forgiving than sensor plane?

 

Another thing, all white paint canon pro lenses made from 1970's till now focus past infinity for better accuracy in temp extremes.

 

Lindy

David, do you know there is a way to adjust back/front focus using a hidden menu on the K10D? You need to have the original v1.10 firmware to be installed. There is a lot written about this on the net (especially at dpreveiw.com) and many folks have solved their focussing problems like this; search for it.

 

If you have a newer firmware, you can get a "hack" to revert to v1.10 here:

 

http://www.vietzon.com/red/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33

 

I am providing this information only. I have not had the need to do this myself so cannot verify the claims any third parties have made. If you try any of this and your K10D explodes, please don't blame me! Do your own research and...good luck!

I'm aware of it, but I'm pretty sure it won't help my particular problem.

 

As I understand it, it is for fixing _autofocus_ problems only, i.e. cases where the

autofocus disagrees with both the image in the finder and the final picture. In my case, my

eyes looking through the finder and the autofocus system agree on focus, but the focus in

the resulting image is different.

 

Then again, maybe I'm incorrect in this understanding (or others who have described the

hack are incorrect in describing it) and what the menu adjusts is the position of the CCD

sensor, not the AF sensor. Given how it's on an anti-shake mount that lets it move along

all three axes, it would seem possible to do that via software.

 

At this stage in the game, however, I'd just as soon avoid making any unsupported

adjustments to my camera (however insignificant or harmless), so as not to give Pentax

any lame excuse for claiming I voided my warranty.

 

I'll post another update on this issue after I have a chance to chat with Pentax customer

support about it tomorrow.