K-7 and the dreaded green line

Discussion in 'Pentax' started by jgredline, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. Hi folks..
    I just got off the phone with Pentax imaging and explained to the service rep about the dreaded green line. At first he tried to deny there was even a problem, but after offering to send him images and numerous links to various problems showing this green line, he admitted there is a ''small'' problem with ''very few'' bodies...Anyway, he told me to send it in and they will fix it for me at get this ''no charge'' and not to worry....He said the fixes take about two-three weeks...I am sending mine back on Monday...
     
  2. For those of us not "in the know" could you provide a link to something detailing "the dreaded green line" ?
     
  3. I'd be more interested in whether they do have a fix ;-)
    AFAIK, it's some sort of overheating problem when using liveview and then switching to regular picture taking...
     
  4. Anyway, he told me to send it in and they will fix it for me at get this ''no charge '' and not to worry...
    I would certainly hope (and expect) that it would be at no charge! After all, it's a brand new camera and still under warranty.
    Rather disturbing that he tried to deny that the problem exists... :-\ This proves that one must be persistent and not take "no" for an answer.
     
  5. Mr. G,
    I hope you get a speedy turnaround on the camera.
     
  6. I hate to expose my ignorance any more than I have to...But, Uh...what's the "green line"??
     
  7. Javier, I wish you the best of luck with the 2-3 weeks. Last time my camera went off for "two week expedited service" it ended up being over 7 weeks and I had to buy a K100D Super on eBay.
    As for info on The Green Line , here are 25-odd pages of it.
     
  8. Thanks Miserere, I had no idea. I'll have to check but I don't think I have that issue.
     
  9. Do those who have followed this issue more closely have a sense of whether this issue effects all/most K-7 bodies, or just some? Or is it that the more silent majority don't encounter this because they don't go looking for it?
     
  10. Pretty sad that Pentax denied the problem, heck!..........it has been on all the forums for what seems like ages!
    Fix it so I can get my new camera!
     
  11. It's a very faint green line visible at 100%+ magnification. It is no more annoying than banding, and actually less likely to be visible on prints. It's only about a pixel wide. (and no I am not saying Javier or anyone should be happy with it)
    Javiers could be worse for sure, and this is a known problem.
    WHat I have found is that most companies deny a known problem till they can figure out how to fix it. Denying it while working on the fix saves them from having to tell you "yeah, we know about it but we don't know how to fix it" which believe it or not would make you VERY unhappy, even more so than realizing you have a green line. If they say they don't know about it, they are merely buying time. If they continue to not "know about it" the best thing to do is copy EVERY forum post about it, every review that mentions it and then catalog it. Then you send a copy to Pentax with a nice letter explaining that this is clearly a problem and you want a fix ASAP.
    I've been doing stuff like this since the late 1990s and I get results. Often I get a direct line with a higher level cust service rep, and stuff overnighted to my door. But all the hassle of buying Beta (1st gen) products isn't worth it, which is why I rarely am an early adopter. When you are first to buy anything you are a lab rat that has to essentially "test and debug" a product. It's just the way the electronics world works. Yeah, you can argue, "but I paid $1300 and it should work out of the box" and while in principal I agree, reality is it doesn't. Electronic products are a different animal. It's not like buying furniture, or a mechanical product. But the fact is all 1st gen products sort of get ironed out in the real world. Even cars are a bad idea to buy in the 1st model year when they have the most issues.
    (right now Javier is thinking, if I built engines with this philosophy i'd be out of business)
     
  12. Hi folks. Just getting in here and did not think this would generate so much response. After my initial call this morning, I called back to get the address to the repair center. Good thing I called because they moved to AZ....As I have looked into it further, it seems like anyone who has actually looked for the green line has found it. Those who have not found it, have not looked for it...But since I discovered the green line, I had stuck it in the closet and went back to the K20D that gives me green line less images. The only reason I even called Pentax is because my wife found the camera in the closet and asked me first ''if I bought another camera'' with the eye if you know what I mean and I said, yes and explained the problem and she made me call them. Anyway, I am sending it off Monday. They said they have a fix, we will see...
    By the way, video or live view does not matter. I have yet to use those features as do many others who have this K-7
     
  13. Heres a 24 page thread with 24,000+hits discussing the Vertical Green line Syndrome at pentaxforums:
    http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/...k7-busted-sensor-strikes-production-body.html
    Theres a few other threads there and elsewhere, but this is the main thread people are getting directed to post in. Theres a few threads discussing this at dpreview's pentaxslrforums. One K-7 buyer went thru 6 K-7 and pentaxusa told her to buy a 7th K-7 instead of shipping K-7 #6 in for service as the new service provider "does not know how to work on K-7 yet." That was a month ago. Another pentax Semi Pro went thru 3 samples and Amazon would not trade him for a 4th K-7, so he bought a 5D MarkII new as its his money making season.
    If you search for it theres alot of Defective sensor in K-7 posts lurking inside of other topic threads daylighting the problem. It existed in Beta K-7 sensors too. Pentax USA employee stated at a roadshow event for K-7 that "firmware fixed the problem." Many people have since said "No."
    Its sad pentax USA tried to steer you into thinking its not a problem Javier. Having to confront Pentax USA with threads filled with images and user complaints about K-7 sensor defects is good to know that it is a required step towards getting the sensor replaced, or the K-7 traded for another used K-7 dslr without the Vertical Green Line Syndrome.
    I've yet to read anyone getting their K-7 repaired actually. It would be good to see a link where a successful repair to K-7 sensor occured. Anywhere,around the globe not just in USA market. That would be a handy link to read where someone got the K-7 sensor replaced via a repair procedure. Its possible its happened and chatted about and I missed it?
     
  14. Lindy,
    I have been spending so much time, and I mean hours on this green line thing and I agree with your findings. It seems that NO ONE has one that has been fixed. I read the threads at pentax forums and I even read at DPR and the news is not good. I am glad I decided to keep my D700..Now that I have my nice new 12-24 mm lens, I will be heading out tomorrow to do some street shooting with it...But I digress...Really this green line has me depressed. I remember telling myself, that I was going to skip the K-7 and I got it anyway. I love the camera, but right now I am regretting the purchase. For what I paid for the K-7 with grip and spare battery, I could have bought me the 24-70F/2.8 for my D700 and be finished with that system. Come to think of it, I am mad about this....These things normally don't bother me, but I am having flash backs of when I went through 3 DA*16-50F/2.8's until I got a good copy...
     
  15. Lindy,
    Can you give us a write up on the Canon 1DMIII issues, even with the fix, they never fixed the problem entirely. Canon claimed there was no problem, then sent out a massive mirror box recall, and even after repairing the cameras, updating firmware, and many other things people went back to using 1DMIIs. There was talk of a class action lawsuit as well. If you can fill in the blanks I'd be appreciative, as I'm sure everyone else would be.
    I could go on and on with 1st gen issues from every major company and I would but that isn't the point of the thread. I just figured the MIII would be appropriate as an example for you. Since you currently like Nikon as well, I've seen reports of D700s randomly dieing, and so on. Check Nikon forum on this site and do a search. D700s were just not starting up, it was a problem with a board I believe and many were dieing just at the edge of a 1 year warranty. I'll do a search for it myself incase you can't find the threads. Oh, and the D60 had some issues on release as well. Something where it would just become a brick.
    Green line seems like a minor inconvenience assuming it is fixable.
     
  16. Justin, Your right about the D700's kicking the bucket. I know one guy personally that had this problem, but nikon replaced his unit even after he had it for 10 months. I don't know about Canons as I don't follow the DSLR's only the p&s. As for the green line, I have decided to wait until they really have a fix for it. By the way. Does yours have the dreaded green line?
     
  17. I'm certain they'll figure out a way to make you happy Javier as you truely are a "Pentaxian".
    On January 14th I wrote some B&H nikon gear prices down the day I impulse bought my D700 and a couple lenses and drive and cable release, which was a couple hours after I read US market had a Feb 1st price spike due. The price spike hit before my 3 day package arrived. Internets are cool info resource. The 24-70 2.8 was $1430 then. I think its up $369 since? Alot of people love it, say its best 24-70 2.8 anybody makes. I've got a 24-70/2.8 Canon and inspite of the bad press over the years mines an exceptional sample. The wife and I did MesaVerde National Park last week & we traded off 16-35mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8 and 70-200mm 2.8. She found the 24-70mm focal length to be her favorite. Handy focal length zoom & very popular with wedding photogs.
    K-7 I assume will work out for you and you'll get to see how CRIS repair in Az does with the new Pentax contract. Locally I'm told the Pentax repair staff in Denver got laid off so its really up to CRIS to make it right for you now. I'm curious how CRIS repair works out for you as my K20D has about 2 years left on warranty. Still no problems here with K20D so I'm pleased.
     
  18. I have not seen the green line on the version I have. It seems from what you said everyone has it, they just have to look for it. I will look over my files and search for it.
    The examples I have seen have not looked all that horrible, which hopefully means it's fixable.
    BTW, I'm not saying you are wrong to call this out, I was more explaining the fact that we are all essentially beta testers, especially the early adopters, and sort of preparing for the anti Pentax crowd to pile on. It's amazing how quickly people forget the dead spots on their own lawn while picking out the flaws on everyone elses.
    There seem to be a lot of people happy with the K7 so it seems this is the biggest issue right now, hopefully it's fixable one way or another.
     
  19. Hey Canon addressed the problem publically, officially. The "Blue Dot" recall with free roundtrip shipping and 2 day repairs. And because of the fiasco the resale, residual value has signicantly dropped on both the unfixed and fixed bodies.
    I wonder how K-7 value will hold up with the known defect and the SILENCE concerning the K-7 defect?
    Have you a handy link to Hoya-Pentax from anywhere on the planet acknowledging any problem with K-7 sensors??? I've love to see any official K-7 Vertical Green Line Syndrome response...
     
  20. Justin. Please don't get me wrong. I bring up the green line, because I get many people asking me about the K-7 and is it worth it over the K20D. Right now I would say yes ''if'' they fix the green line issue and I am sure they will...As far as being a beta tester, as you mentioned earlier. If I put out a beta engine I would be done. I have dyno's to test things and people we sponsor and ''give'' parts to so they can be tested. Now had I known I was a beta tester, I would not have expected to pay $1600.00 + (with grip) to be a beta tester...
    I really do love Pentax products and feel I have earned the right to speak my mind. Just as I am quick to defend them, I have easly spent some 25k on my Pentax hobby alone and it is just a hobby....
    Lindy, You have me wondering now. What is this CRIS repair deal? Is it some camera garage that pentax has hired? The pentax techs got laid off?
     
  21. CRIS is a real repair facility and now they are the "official pentax USA repair facility" I've read Sigma uses them so if I recall right you've had Sigmas repaired... by CRIS in AZ
    Yeah, $1600 is alot of coin for a crop format dslr set up and I could have followed your lead as the reports of K-7 being kinda small for big hands would have made me have to buy the grip and try to find the battery too. K20D is a perfect fit for us. Well that goes for 5D and D700 too. Without the assessory grips these are not huge cameras. I'm over the desire to get a HD dslr. So I'm sidelined pondering other bits I might add instead of this new wave of HD Dslr cameras.
     
  22. Actually, Canon denied it for a long time, only when they had enough boxes to replace them did they do a recall and even then it was not an all at once thing.
    Part of the reason Canon fixed it was public pressure. A LOT of people were disgruntled, feeling ripped off, and Rob Galbraith was instrumental in getting the problem noticed, and then in the testing of Canons "proposed" fixes. Check out his website. He had high res photos he took with the 1DIII vs the 1DII using canons fixes (before the mirror box recall), and could clearly show a problem.
    Of course though you are wrong, your point is Canon noticed this problem and promptly fixed it, but the reality is Canon did what I said companies do. Denied it first, then created a BS fix, then recalled the cameras. However, the happy ending never happened and people still swear the AF is inferior after all the updates and repairs.
    It's really not a big deal if you want to bash Pentax/Hoya, but be fair doing it. The camera is out about 6 weeks now. Not a long time, give them a little time to fix it, and be fair in admitting that virtually every camera company, and many models have had similar, if not far worse problems.
    Does that seem like a ridiculous request?
    And Lindy, the K20D isn't half the camera the K7 is. The K7 is a finished K20D, with actually useful Live View, and a real video mode. Plus the true MLU is incredibly useful when shooting panoramics since there is no reason to look through the VF anyway. Size? Well it's the perfect size, bigger than the ist D, smaller than the K20D. I have average sized hands, works just fine.
    I was recently twittering with a adventure photog that shoots Pentax. She was telling me how excited she was to have the K7, a perfect camera for that genre, and also how impressive the K7 was with a 60-250mm f/4. She said, "that the k7 with the 16-50 and 60-250mm was the perfect kit."
     
  23. I'm glad you like your testdrive K-7 dslr sample Justin. Good to know Pentax has made a major upgrade over your K10D, finially. So I guess you'll soon buy a K-7 for yourself then?
    Me? I'll pass on K-7 as the body is too small, for me. Green Line sensor problem simply reinforces my decision as a second reason to pass it at full price and still pass on it when it's at half price some 6 to 8 months from now.
    As far as Canon defective Dslr story goes it doesn't affect my 5D, just like the K-7 defect does not affect my K20D. Did Canon's silence inspire confidence? Does Pentax silence inspire the same confidence? Time will tell. I'm certain Canon lost some gear owners over it. I bought into Canon inspite of it. You'll buy a k-7 I guess, inspite of the problem too? Weigh the pros and cons and if you need another camera you buy it.
    I hadn't read of the D700 circut board failures and other sporadic complaints you mentioned. Good thing I added their 2 additional years for a total of 3 years house of nikon extended warranty on D700 huh? Both Canon and Nikon have service facilities "inhouse" in USA still. If I need them I'll find out how good or bad they are if I ever need service. As of yet, no service required on either so its all good, for me.
     
  24. It looks like we've got a sort of "Enemy of the People" dilemma here: a conflict between candor and marketing. And Justin's right: the dynamic of internet is a real factor.
    You guys know way more about this stuff but I'm guessing this issue affects all K-7's and that Pentax is looking to address it with a firmware patch--greatly preferred (on all sides) over shipping bodies hither & yon.
    In the meantime my decision this spring to get a second K20D rather than hold off for the unveiling of the "new concept" is looking pretty good.
     
  25. Glad to see you brought your fighting gloves Lindy.
    As per my policy, I will no longer argue with idiocrisy, I realized you cannot win such an arguement. Take it as a concession of my defeat and enjoy it. Go buy yourself a beer on me.
    As far as the K-7, I am actually not in any rush to buy one, largely because I am really enjoying a return to film and because my K10D still does everything I need for nature/landscape stuff, while my D300 does everything I need for sports. When I need more pixels than the K10D can offer, I shoot 2-3 shot vertical panoramas giving me about 20MPs. If I need more DR I use a digital ND filter by taking multiple exposures.
    As far as your statement that the K-7 is finally a replacement for my K10D, you are correct, it's 99.9% of all the camera I will ever need based on my wish list that I have layed out for the last 3 years (well known to the forum regulars) since the K10D. My biggest complaints with the K20D were the inconsistent sensor (yep, no green lines, just moire, banding, shadow noise with DR expansion, lack of ability to turn off NR, etc) and the fact it seemed like the other "upgrades" over the K10D were simply firmware or beta additions. While there is no doubt the K-7 is a total redesign, and added finished features rather than beta features.
    No camera is perfect, in the end it's all about getting what suits your needs and has the least flaws.
     
  26. Interesting issue. Fortunately, either my K7 is not affected or my shooting settings are not such as to make this problem easily visible - I didn't use LV or video much so far and I rarely shoot above ISO 100. I'll keep an eye for it in my future shots.
     
  27. On the surface of it, seems like Justin is right and this appears to be a comparatively mild bug that will probably be ironed out. This camera does offer more even than the K20D. And the price remains the same, which is remarkable! The K20D was also a $1,300 camera. But the IQ factor of the K7 is not any substantial degree of advancement, from what I have seen, nor could that be expected. The metering, however, appears to be more accurate, AF and fps shooting speed improved, as well as the other improvements Justin has brought up. That all this is designed into a more compact body is amazing.
    I think a good part of the appearance of such bugs is this business of generating a new replacement model every 18 months or so. We went through something like that, though not that extreme, with AF film models back when. In time, there was only so much development that could be advanced, then about the mid 1990's this slowed greatly and model runs were much longer. With longer model runs, more time can be allowed to develop the next model, testing and ironing out bugs ahead of production. More time can also be taken setting up production and implementing better quality control.
    The mp race is topping out, as is the feature race. It seems that we are likely to see a similar slowdown with the DSLR market. These companies have become too accustomed to this rapid new-model sales bonanza as digital technology has enjoyed rapid advancement. But this cannot go on forever. Already we are seeing that people already having such an advanced camera like the K10D and certainly the K20D, many are not jumping with credit card in hand with eager enthusiasm to buy a new K7. It does indeed offer these improvements and new features. Some of those new features are not of special interest to many, and the K20D remains a great camera with great control features, and very well built, that produces a very high level of image quality.
    I should have been a waiter because I tend to wait. I like the design concept behind the K7- a very advanced, superbly-built body with great new features in a compact form! I like the video part too. can see where one could be in my future. The K7, as Justin says, is very new. I expect it will pan out to be an exceptionally fine and unique offering.
     
  28. Just a quick question: I looked at a couple of posts on that big thread and saw some mention of it affecting the high resolution jpeg but not the smaller versions. So the question I have is whether it affects RAW capture or not?
    If yes it really is a sensor problem, if not it is a jpeg problem. But to be fair it is unlikely to be a jpeg engine problem. I bought a phone which had a similar problem with the built in camera, but replaced it no problem.
    But it doesn't seem to be a major problem, and although I would like a K-7 I'll wait with my k20d for a while...
     
  29. That is a good question, I have a little issue, my main PC (desktop) needs a power supply, it runs for about 20 minutes and turns off. Instead of spending $50 on a power supply, I decided to order a new MOBO, CPU, and ram (and of course a power supply)...upgrading my aging machine for another 4 years or so.
    I will check as soon as I can on the images I shot already, and I will make sure to note on future shots.
    I only shoot RAW, never JPEG, but Javier shoots only JPEG never RAW. So I do wonder if this is a JPEG issue alone.
    The other thing is, the line that I have seen is about 1 pixel wide, meaning that you would probably only notice it on full size JPEGs at 100% magnification. Further meaning those that don't print all that big might never notice it. I see it largely being a problem for mission critical work where any flaw is going to standout like a sore thumb.
     
  30. A whole lot of time and verbiage and confusion could have been saved if you guys realized that the Green Line is in Boston.
    http://www.mbta.com/schedules_and_maps/subway/
     
  31. I hope a firmware update would fix the problem because it is not a problem for me since I shoot more HD video than stills and I can't see it at less than 100% full 4672x3104 jpeg.
    http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a21/jogiba/my%20photos/IMGP0189-2.jpg
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/21376375@N04/3837517020/sizes/o/
     
  32. Pentax are not going to admit there is a problem because they're Japanese. Read a book about Japanese culture (I keep meaning to look for one on Japanese business culture) and you'll see that a company simply cannot admit that they've produced a faulty product; their honour is at stake and they just won't do it. At some point (hopefully soon) they will release a new firmware that will say something like "improved image creation algorithm" which will fix the issue. There will be no mention of green lines or overheated sensors.
    This is a fact of life when buying Japanese technology and is difficult for us Westerners to understand.
     
  33. Mis, you have a point regarding the difficulty Japanese may have in admitting error. I was certainly absolving any balme when I noted how the rapid change in models necessitates a product rush to market, almost guaranteeing some fault to need correcting.
    Now how can we get them to reinstate the incredible loss of their fine FA 35mm f/2, FA 50mm f/1.7, and FA 50mm f/1.4 fast primes offered at reasonable prices? These would mirror what Canikon offer, but are better lenses! Maybe the current absence could be seen as a temporary measure for some departmental reorganization to adjust product output to customer demand, and to improve production efficiency...??
     
  34. Michael, I'm sure the official party line is that the FA 35mm f/2 has been replaced by the superior DA 35 Ltd, while the FA 50mm f/1.4 and f/1.7 have been replaced by the (you guessed it) superior DA* 50mm f/1.4. The fact that the FA lenses weren't actually replaced is irrelevant.
     
  35. Mis, I think you hit the nail on the head.
    "Superior" is debatable, but who are we to argue with Pentax? :-\
     
  36. Hi folks.
    Turns out that Canon and Nikon (sony) have also had a similar problem, though unlike Pentax they headed the problem off at the pass...It seems like the dreaded green line is caused by fusing the sensor together, basically welding two of them together. If this is the case, this is good news because that is the same technology that is used to make a full frame sensor at a reasonable cost. Now again, this is speculation and info gathered through PF, DPR, PF in EU, and few more. It makes sense in way. Now I don't know how accurate this is or maybe it is just wishful thinking. Thoughts?
     
  37. If it's a hardware problem such as that, I wonder how they would fix it with only a software patch? I suppose they could have the imaging engine grab a line of pixels from either side of the green line, and then use that to interpolate what the line occupied by the green line should actually look like. I'm not explaining this very well, but it would be the same sort of thing they do with hot pixels, I guess.
     
  38. Javier, can you post some links to the info about the sensor being fused? I thought this had been refuted. Still, it should be easier to fix in firmware if this is the issue.
     
  39. From the Canon 5D MKII manual:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  40. Mis,
    When I get to work tomorrow I will look through my surfing history and get those links for you.
    As I said, it was all forum talk, but still interesting.
     
  41. @R.T. - I was thinking about a software solution along the same line as you - I'm pretty sure a firmware upgrade will take care of this.
     
  42. Hi folks,
    I do not know what to make of this. I just got off the phone with the people over at CHRISCAM the new repair station for Pentax. When I called Pentax imaging USA, at first they did not want to give me the phone number, but reluctantly they did.

    Here are their details.
    CRIS CAM
    Attn Pentax service dept
    250 n. 54th st
    Chandler AZ. 85226
    480) 940-1103

    The girl I spoke with was very nice over at cris cam http://criscam.com/newsite/index.php What bothered me, is that this is a general all brand repair station and they have yet to service any K-7's according to what I was told on the phone today..They have never heard of the green line syndrome but would be happy to take a look....i was going to send in my K-7 today, but now I am wondering if I should. Do I really want to be an experiment? I was also told I have nothing to loose since I have a three year warranty...Anyway, I guess I will send it in and see what happens..
     
  43. So now Pentax is farming out their repair work? Previously, Pentax USA have always maintained their own repair and maintenance department. About a year ago, I sent in an FA 28-70mm f/4 with I think a separation issue, and Pentax did the work. This situation now does not look too good to me.
     
  44. So, after much reading on both Photo.Net (this thread) and Pentax Forum, this seems a likely issue mainly with "Live View" shooting, or am I completely wrong again?
    I am (was ?) considering buying the K7 within the next couple months or so but that piece of news sure had me think it over twice. As someone said on this thread, better wait a while and see what happens with this "fix".
    It would be rather interesting to find out how many people have this problem and also if that is a particular issue with a specific "batch" of K7's only, like it often happens in all brands. Remember that big nasty news about the Canon (whatever the model was, but it was high end) ?
    Personally, I live quite far from any big city which would have a "head office" to deal with, in Canada. Likelyhood to be in Toronto and that does not sound very good at all. I'll stay away from the K7 until I know this green line issue has been completely resolved. I was going to give my K10D to my son and keep the K20D with the K7 but ... it's not going to happen any time soon.
    Is there any way this can be "tested" at the store upon shopping for the K7?
    Cheers.
    JP
     
  45. Concerning the welding of the Samsung sensor coincidentally being the cause where the green lines show up was refuted by Falk Lumo. I think he found them to specifically exist: two at 128k and one at 256k or something like that. He's apparently a software guru and thats my recollection of it. Search his posts or blog for more info. Falk was one of the lucky few who were Pentax' K-7 beta tester and he coincidentally had a vertical green line syndrome K-7 delivered to him for beta testing with beta sensor installed. Pentax Europe got this camera back after his beta test so they have an afflicted sample inhand.
    Its disappointing CRIS has not heard of the green lines, and yet the green line is well documented in pentax forums around the globe with images for others to see. It affects K-7 from various serial numbers, it affects K-7 that never had live view or video engaged. It affects raw and jpg captures. It tends to be more temperture sensitive but others have had it occur well within the temp specs. I guess K-7 records the camera's temp on your image's metadata. You do have to look for the green lines, then once you see them they or it jumps out at you. All the K-7 being returned or exchanged from unhappy buyers during the return period, I wonder where those end up?
    Questions I also wonder about are:
    will the sensor lines get worse over time?

    will pentax officially acknowledge its existence?

    will pentax be able to fix it with firmware?

    I guess it has to do with how incredibly well sealed the K-7 is. Where's that heat generated by the K-7 sensor suppose to go? If water can't get in, then heat cannot escape either.

    Personally I'd wait to send a defective K-7 in for service until pentax figures out whats wrong with K-7 and are willing to publically own their boo~boo.

    Anyways, I've examined our images from K20D for any hint of where one or all three Vertical Green Lines exist on K-7 's images. Nothing found, no problem with our K20D images. And its equally well sealed. Maybe including HD Video capture spec in a Dslr thesedays isn't really "free".
    Here's one of Falk, threads. You can search thru his 2,591 posts there to see alot of great pentax info and insight, opinions, theories and such:
    http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/...-press-release-about-european-operations.html
     
  46. I am going to call again tomorrow and demand they exchange my K-7 for a known good unit. Why should I have to be with out it for 2-3 weeks with no guarantee of it even getting fixed? The thought of sending my Ferrari to Pep boys to get fixed is bothering me.
     
  47. Javier, having read way too much about this problem, my understanding is the same as yours: Those who don't have a problem with the Green Line simply haven't looked for it. Many people who were reporting no line eventually came back and said "actually, after shooting for an hour outside, I started getting the Green Line".
    People from all over the World are reporting it, so I don't think it's a batch problem. Some people have returned a number of cameras for new units and all had the Green Line. I've come to the conclusion that the Green Line is a feature of the camera. Pentax will not admit to a problem, but will eventually release a firmware upgrade that will fix it. They have no option but to do this. If they don't, current owners will return their cameras for a refund and late adopters like myself will never buy one. Pentax cannot afford not to sell all the units they've built, and unless they update the firmware, this is a likely outcome.
    Javier, my suggestion to you is to hang on to your K-7 and wait for the firmware update. Your other option is to return it for a refund (if that's possible). I doubt your Green Line will get fixed by CRIS, so why go to all the trouble of sending them the camera?
     
  48. Mis,
    You are correct. There is no fix yet. I spoke with a higher up at Pentax imaging named John and said they are working on a firmware fix to fix this problem. It is happening to all the units even with out live view or movie making. It does not show up in low use shooting, like the first 20 or so snaps, but the people who are complaining the most are the sports shooters. I set my K-7 in burst mode and just let it rip and by about the 3rd set of 30 images total, that green line was there. So I decided to hold on to it..
    What is more concerning to me was that when I asked why they closed down the Pentax service center, the supervisor said, he did not know. It came out of Hoya / Pentax / Japan and they there where all as surprised as the next guy. When I told him, I was not comfortable sending my Porsche Turbo to Sears auto center for a rebuild, he started to laugh and said...Those techs where trained by Pentax....I am like...Yea sure buddy....What Chis should have done was hire those laid of people and relocated them or at least offered the option.
    In either case, I am putting the lamborghini back in the Garage (my closet) until the firmware update is out. Until then, I have really been enjoying my D700 and this whole episode with Pentax has me considering leaving Pentax all together. I just got so much Pentax glass that it will be hard to let go of....
     
  49. Javier, don't forget to offer those Pentax lenses to your friends before you leave ;-)
    I only joke because I know you won't leave us :p
     
  50. Javier, I love your analogy to Pep Boys or Sears! Especially Pep Boys, because our Sears actually does have some very experienced mechanics. But for some problems, the dealer who only works on their products, have the greatest expertise. Don't be surprised, though, to see more of this outsourcing of their "service department" from other brands too. It may eventually be outsourced to India! As with everything now, it's all about cheaper labor with fewer benefits for working people, and then American working people being replaced altogether by cheap foreign labor. Of course, quality and personalized service takes a plunge in the process.
    The Nikon D700 is a very fine camera, as users report, but the advantage for tele uses is still for the aps size cameras. I have been very pleased with performance and image quality from my K20D, as well as that from my compact K200D. Both of course also have the excellent construction with weather sealing and advanced features, and each meets particular needs very well. So I am certainly in no hurry regarding the K7. I am concerned a bit about the mid-class model K200D having a new replacement. I hope that happens. It seems just having the KM/2000 and the K7 leaves a hole in the middle.
    I do believe, as Mis has said, that Pentax will iron out this bug. The K7 is inherently a more complex machine than the K20D, so a bug or two really is not a surprise.
     
  51. One thing about the D700 is the weight of the beast and frankly the attention it grabs. I finally did get rid of the strap that says D700 on it and ''almost'' put a fuji strap on it....But as an example. This past saturday I went on my first train / subway ride. It took me 2.5 hours to get to the beach...When I drive, I get their in 30 minutes with traffic so it was a huge difference...I was going to take the Nikon that day to document my travel but after walking to the train station, I knew it was to big and heavy, so I went back home and got my K20D with no grip and the Tokina 20-35mm lens and Tamron 28-300 super zoom....Anyway, I am almost done sorting those pictures and will post some up this evening I think. I almost got robbed as well, but I was a little too fast for the fellow...Anyway, more later...
     
  52. ...and ''almost'' put a fuji strap on it....​
    LOL!
     
  53. Couldn't hurt to give it a shot. Too bad that Pentax USA didn't tell you about that. It's almost getting to the point where we're getting better tech support from ourselves than we're getting from Pentax. Jeeze, they should make their cameras and firmware open source and then we'd really get somewhere! ;-)
     
  54. Well, I am reading reports that the new (unofficial) firmware update has cured the green line syndrome...I just installed it and will see if i can test it at lunnch time today. I have lots of work to get get done, so i will see.
     
  55. I hope that this firmware update is really the answer you've been looking for. This situation seems incredibly frustrating. I know that by the time I'm able to get a K-7 (at this rate...4 years lol) that the problem will be fixed. Knowing that it's a pain in the bumper makes me feel for you guys.
     
  56. jtk

    jtk

    Does anybody think these models will be in place next year, this time? K20D is an unqualified winner. K7 seems a temporary place-holder, a rag-bag of "features". An Edsel.
    An "improved" version of K20D would be a winner for both photographic and marketing reasons. Pay a little more than the K20D (maybe KEEP the current K20D in the lineup). There seem to be zero significant advantages to K7D over K20D, few over K10D.
    How about NO MORE "FEATURES," or better, FEWER "FEATURES": RAW-only but with 3 selectable levels of automatic noise reduction, one of them precisely K20D-style, the others heavier/softer, Canon and Nikon-style? Dump the inferior sub-K20D Pentaxes, add a K20-L with magnesium frame rather than steel. Less is more, light is good. Pursue excellence (like K20D) rather than hype (K7), abandon cheap alternatives, price around 3/4 Canon 7D and Nikon D700. Cheaper, better, less Mickey Mouse.
     
  57. So far so good. I just took my first video ever with the k-7 inside the dyno room and then took some snaps and no more green line...I am thinking about leaving work early to get in some shooting today...With my Kids going back to school, I will not be able to go as much as I take them to school and pick them up...So yea, I will leave early today.. ;-)....Now where to go?
     
  58. The K20D is a showstopper for me with no HD video or HDR mode. It's funny how K20D owners like to rag on the K-7 just to justify not getting one.
     
  59. Joe, I have to disagree with your statement. I am quickly seeing and has been the consensus from others that the K20D handles noise better than the K-7. I thought I was seeing things at first and blamed my new glasses, but it seems to be true...Not a bad thing for those who are gifted at PP because the K-7 gives you more wiggle room, but for me, since I prefer J pegs and am not interested in Video, the K20D would suit me just fine.
     
  60. K20 could never do this - Thanks K7:

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=32892219
    K-7 iso 3200 images at the Airforce Museum:
    http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/71692-k-7-iso-3200-images-airforce-museum-double-post.html
     
  61. Joe, You obviously have not seen what Justin or Mis have done with a K10D...
    now where are those hockey and concert images? ;-)
     
  62. Javier, that first post Joe linked to is referring to the AF assist lamp, which is certainly one of the K-7 features I'm looking forward to. As to the ISO3200 pics, they look good, which I would expect given it's a 2nd generation sensor, although I'm sure the K20D can pull it off too.
    And here's a concert pic for you, but only because you asked, Javier :)
    [​IMG]
     
  63. Well, that firmware upgrade fixed it, so I am a happy camper. Some of my test shots from today. EXIF should all be there.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  64. Javier, can you adopt me? And when you do, can you let me borrow your K-7 and take me on photowalks? Every day? Every. Single, Day?
    I just love photographing Japanese tourists.
     
  65. Joe Ogiba , Sep 02, 2009; 04:27 p.m.
    The K20D is a showstopper for me with no HD video or HDR mode. It's funny how K20D owners like to rag on the K-7 just to justify not getting one.​
    Joe, Having re-read your statement here, I don't know what I was reading yesterday. Brain fade on my part and I apologize for that. In many ways you are correct. There is allot of K-7 bashing going on by many folks who do NOT own a K-7 and that I do not understand..The bashing is not going on here, but at PF and a few others.
     
  66. I guess you missed the following comments in this thread:
    "K20D is an unqualified winner. K7 seems a temporary place-holder, a rag-bag of "features". An Edsel."
    "There seem to be zero significant advantages to K7D over K20D, few over K10D."​
     
  67. So you didn't send the camera in Javier??
     
  68. Nope, never sent it in. I am now glad I did not for they would still be trying to fix it. lol
     
  69. I will wait for 1.02 firmware since the green line has not shown up in photos I have shot lately. I still have the original 1.00 firmware.
     

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