K-7 and the dreaded green line

<p>Hi folks..<br>

I just got off the phone with Pentax imaging and explained to the service rep about the dreaded green line. At first he tried to deny there was even a problem, but after offering to send him images and numerous links to various problems showing this green line, he admitted there is a ''small'' problem with ''very few'' bodies...Anyway, he told me to send it in and they will fix it for me at get this ''no charge'' and not to worry....He said the fixes take about two-three weeks...I am sending mine back on Monday...</p>

<p>For those of us not "in the know" could you provide a link to something detailing "the dreaded green line" ?</p>

<p>I'd be more interested in whether they do have a fix ;-)<br>

AFAIK, it's some sort of overheating problem when using liveview and then switching to regular picture taking...</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p><em>Anyway, he told me to send it in and they will fix it for me at get this ''<strong>no charge</strong> '' and not to worry... </em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>I would certainly hope (and expect) that it would be at no charge! After all, it's a brand new camera and still under warranty.</p>

<p>Rather disturbing that he tried to deny that the problem exists... :-\ This proves that one must be persistent and not take "no" for an answer.</p>

<p>Mr. G,<br>

I hope you get a speedy turnaround on the camera.</p>

<p>I hate to expose my ignorance any more than I have to...But, Uh...what's the "green line"??</p>

<p>Javier, I wish you the best of luck with the 2-3 weeks. Last time my camera went off for "two week expedited service" it ended up being over 7 weeks and I had to buy a K100D Super on eBay.</p>

<p>As for info on <em>The Green Line</em> , <a href="http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/65879-k7-busted-sensor-strikes-production-body.html">here are 25-odd pages of it.</a></p>

<p>Thanks Miserere, I had no idea. I'll have to check but I don't think I have that issue.</p>

<p>Do those who have followed this issue more closely have a sense of whether this issue effects all/most K-7 bodies, or just some? Or is it that the more silent majority don't encounter this because they don't go looking for it?</p>

<p>Pretty sad that Pentax denied the problem, heck!..........it has been on all the forums for what seems like ages!<br>

Fix it so I can get my new camera!</p>

<p>It's a very faint green line visible at 100%+ magnification. It is no more annoying than banding, and actually less likely to be visible on prints. It's only about a pixel wide. (and no I am not saying Javier or anyone should be happy with it)</p>

<p>Javiers could be worse for sure, and this is a known problem.</p>

<p>WHat I have found is that most companies deny a known problem till they can figure out how to fix it. Denying it while working on the fix saves them from having to tell you "yeah, we know about it but we don't know how to fix it" which believe it or not would make you VERY unhappy, even more so than realizing you have a green line. If they say they don't know about it, they are merely buying time. If they continue to not "know about it" the best thing to do is copy EVERY forum post about it, every review that mentions it and then catalog it. Then you send a copy to Pentax with a nice letter explaining that this is clearly a problem and you want a fix ASAP.</p>

<p>I've been doing stuff like this since the late 1990s and I get results. Often I get a direct line with a higher level cust service rep, and stuff overnighted to my door. But all the hassle of buying Beta (1st gen) products isn't worth it, which is why I rarely am an early adopter. When you are first to buy anything you are a lab rat that has to essentially "test and debug" a product. It's just the way the electronics world works. Yeah, you can argue, "but I paid $1300 and it should work out of the box" and while in principal I agree, reality is it doesn't. Electronic products are a different animal. It's not like buying furniture, or a mechanical product. But the fact is all 1st gen products sort of get ironed out in the real world. Even cars are a bad idea to buy in the 1st model year when they have the most issues.</p>

<p>(right now Javier is thinking, if I built engines with this philosophy i'd be out of business)</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Hi folks. Just getting in here and did not think this would generate so much response. After my initial call this morning, I called back to get the address to the repair center. Good thing I called because they moved to AZ....As I have looked into it further, it seems like anyone who has actually looked for the green line has found it. Those who have not found it, have not looked for it...But since I discovered the green line, I had stuck it in the closet and went back to the K20D that gives me green line less images. The only reason I even called Pentax is because my wife found the camera in the closet and asked me first ''if I bought another camera'' with the eye if you know what I mean and I said, yes and explained the problem and she made me call them. Anyway, I am sending it off Monday. They said they have a fix, we will see...</p>

<p>By the way, video or live view does not matter. I have yet to use those features as do many others who have this K-7</p>

<p>Heres a 24 page thread with 24,000+hits discussing the Vertical Green line Syndrome at pentaxforums:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/65879-k7-busted-sensor-strikes-production-body.html">http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/65879-k7-busted-sensor-strikes-production-body.html</a></p>

<p>Theres a few other threads there and elsewhere, but this is the main thread people are getting directed to post in. Theres a few threads discussing this at dpreview's pentaxslrforums. One K-7 buyer went thru 6 K-7 and pentaxusa told her to buy a 7th K-7 instead of shipping K-7 #6 in for service as the new service provider "does not know how to work on K-7 yet." That was a month ago. Another pentax Semi Pro went thru 3 samples and Amazon would not trade him for a 4th K-7, so he bought a 5D MarkII new as its his money making season.</p>

<p>If you search for it theres alot of Defective sensor in K-7 posts lurking inside of other topic threads daylighting the problem. It existed in Beta K-7 sensors too. Pentax USA employee stated at a roadshow event for K-7 that "firmware fixed the problem." Many people have since said "No."</p>

<p>Its sad pentax USA tried to steer you into thinking its not a problem Javier. Having to confront Pentax USA with threads filled with images and user complaints about K-7 sensor defects is good to know that it is a required step towards getting the sensor replaced, or the K-7 traded for another used K-7 dslr without the Vertical Green Line Syndrome.</p>

<p>I've yet to read anyone getting their K-7 repaired actually. It would be good to see a link where a successful repair to K-7 sensor occured. Anywhere,around the globe not just in USA market. That would be a handy link to read where someone got the K-7 sensor replaced via a repair procedure. Its possible its happened and chatted about and I missed it?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Lindy,<br>

I have been spending so much time, and I mean hours on this green line thing and I agree with your findings. It seems that NO ONE has one that has been fixed. I read the threads at pentax forums and I even read at DPR and the news is not good. I am glad I decided to keep my D700..Now that I have my nice new 12-24 mm lens, I will be heading out tomorrow to do some street shooting with it...But I digress...Really this green line has me depressed. I remember telling myself, that I was going to skip the K-7 and I got it anyway. I love the camera, but right now I am regretting the purchase. For what I paid for the K-7 with grip and spare battery, I could have bought me the 24-70F/2.8 for my D700 and be finished with that system. Come to think of it, I am mad about this....These things normally don't bother me, but I am having flash backs of when I went through 3 DA*16-50F/2.8's until I got a good copy...</p>

<p>Lindy,</p>

<p>Can you give us a write up on the Canon 1DMIII issues, even with the fix, they never fixed the problem entirely. Canon claimed there was no problem, then sent out a massive mirror box recall, and even after repairing the cameras, updating firmware, and many other things people went back to using 1DMIIs. There was talk of a class action lawsuit as well. If you can fill in the blanks I'd be appreciative, as I'm sure everyone else would be.</p>

<p>I could go on and on with 1st gen issues from every major company and I would but that isn't the point of the thread. I just figured the MIII would be appropriate as an example for you. Since you currently like Nikon as well, I've seen reports of D700s randomly dieing, and so on. Check Nikon forum on this site and do a search. D700s were just not starting up, it was a problem with a board I believe and many were dieing just at the edge of a 1 year warranty. I'll do a search for it myself incase you can't find the threads. Oh, and the D60 had some issues on release as well. Something where it would just become a brick.</p>

<p>Green line seems like a minor inconvenience assuming it is fixable.</p>

<p>Justin, Your right about the D700's kicking the bucket. I know one guy personally that had this problem, but nikon replaced his unit even after he had it for 10 months. I don't know about Canons as I don't follow the DSLR's only the p&s. As for the green line, I have decided to wait until they really have a fix for it. By the way. Does yours have the dreaded green line?</p>

<p>I'm certain they'll figure out a way to make you happy Javier as you truely are a "Pentaxian".</p>

<p>On January 14th I wrote some B&H nikon gear prices down the day I impulse bought my D700 and a couple lenses and drive and cable release, which was a couple hours after I read US market had a Feb 1st price spike due. The price spike hit before my 3 day package arrived. Internets are cool info resource. The 24-70 2.8 was $1430 then. I think its up $369 since? Alot of people love it, say its best 24-70 2.8 anybody makes. I've got a 24-70/2.8 Canon and inspite of the bad press over the years mines an exceptional sample. The wife and I did MesaVerde National Park last week & we traded off 16-35mm 2.8, 24-70mm 2.8 and 70-200mm 2.8. She found the 24-70mm focal length to be her favorite. Handy focal length zoom & very popular with wedding photogs.</p>

<p>K-7 I assume will work out for you and you'll get to see how CRIS repair in Az does with the new Pentax contract. Locally I'm told the Pentax repair staff in Denver got laid off so its really up to CRIS to make it right for you now. I'm curious how CRIS repair works out for you as my K20D has about 2 years left on warranty. Still no problems here with K20D so I'm pleased.</p>

<p>I have not seen the green line on the version I have. It seems from what you said everyone has it, they just have to look for it. I will look over my files and search for it.</p>

<p>The examples I have seen have not looked all that horrible, which hopefully means it's fixable.</p>

<p>BTW, I'm not saying you are wrong to call this out, I was more explaining the fact that we are all essentially beta testers, especially the early adopters, and sort of preparing for the anti Pentax crowd to pile on. It's amazing how quickly people forget the dead spots on their own lawn while picking out the flaws on everyone elses.</p>

<p>There seem to be a lot of people happy with the K7 so it seems this is the biggest issue right now, hopefully it's fixable one way or another.</p>

<p>Hey Canon addressed the problem publically, officially. The "Blue Dot" recall with free roundtrip shipping and 2 day repairs. And because of the fiasco the resale, residual value has signicantly dropped on both the unfixed and fixed bodies.</p>

<p>I wonder how K-7 value will hold up with the known defect and the SILENCE concerning the K-7 defect?</p>

<p>Have you a handy link to Hoya-Pentax from anywhere on the planet acknowledging any problem with K-7 sensors??? I've love to see any official K-7 Vertical Green Line Syndrome response...</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Justin. Please don't get me wrong. I bring up the green line, because I get many people asking me about the K-7 and is it worth it over the K20D. Right now I would say yes ''if'' they fix the green line issue and I am sure they will...As far as being a beta tester, as you mentioned earlier. If I put out a beta engine I would be done. I have dyno's to test things and people we sponsor and ''give'' parts to so they can be tested. Now had I known I was a beta tester, I would not have expected to pay $1600.00 + (with grip) to be a beta tester...</p>

<p>I really do love Pentax products and feel I have earned the right to speak my mind. Just as I am quick to defend them, I have easly spent some 25k on my Pentax hobby alone and it is just a hobby....</p>

<p>Lindy, You have me wondering now. What is this CRIS repair deal? Is it some camera garage that pentax has hired? The pentax techs got laid off?</p>

<p>CRIS is a real repair facility and now they are the "official pentax USA repair facility" I've read Sigma uses them so if I recall right you've had Sigmas repaired... by CRIS in AZ</p>

<p>Yeah, $1600 is alot of coin for a crop format dslr set up and I could have followed your lead as the reports of K-7 being kinda small for big hands would have made me have to buy the grip and try to find the battery too. K20D is a perfect fit for us. Well that goes for 5D and D700 too. Without the assessory grips these are not huge cameras. I'm over the desire to get a HD dslr. So I'm sidelined pondering other bits I might add instead of this new wave of HD Dslr cameras.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Actually, Canon denied it for a long time, only when they had enough boxes to replace them did they do a recall and even then it was not an all at once thing.</p>

<p>Part of the reason Canon fixed it was public pressure. A LOT of people were disgruntled, feeling ripped off, and Rob Galbraith was instrumental in getting the problem noticed, and then in the testing of Canons "proposed" fixes. Check out his website. He had high res photos he took with the 1DIII vs the 1DII using canons fixes (before the mirror box recall), and could clearly show a problem.</p>

<p>Of course though you are wrong, your point is Canon noticed this problem and promptly fixed it, but the reality is Canon did what I said companies do. Denied it first, then created a BS fix, then recalled the cameras. However, the happy ending never happened and people still swear the AF is inferior after all the updates and repairs. </p>

<p>It's really not a big deal if you want to bash Pentax/Hoya, but be fair doing it. The camera is out about 6 weeks now. Not a long time, give them a little time to fix it, and be fair in admitting that virtually every camera company, and many models have had similar, if not far worse problems.</p>

<p>Does that seem like a ridiculous request?</p>

<p>And Lindy, the K20D isn't half the camera the K7 is. The K7 is a finished K20D, with actually useful Live View, and a real video mode. Plus the true MLU is incredibly useful when shooting panoramics since there is no reason to look through the VF anyway. Size? Well it's the perfect size, bigger than the ist D, smaller than the K20D. I have average sized hands, works just fine.</p>

<p>I was recently twittering with a adventure photog that shoots Pentax. She was telling me how excited she was to have the K7, a perfect camera for that genre, and also how impressive the K7 was with a 60-250mm f/4. She said, "that the k7 with the 16-50 and 60-250mm was the perfect kit."</p>

 

<p>I'm glad you like your testdrive K-7 dslr sample Justin. Good to know Pentax has made a major upgrade over your K10D, finially. So I guess you'll soon buy a K-7 for yourself then?</p>

<p>Me? I'll pass on K-7 as the body is too small, for me. Green Line sensor problem simply reinforces my decision as a second reason to pass it at full price and still pass on it when it's at half price some 6 to 8 months from now.</p>

<p>As far as Canon defective Dslr story goes it doesn't affect my 5D, just like the K-7 defect does not affect my K20D. Did Canon's silence inspire confidence? Does Pentax silence inspire the same confidence? Time will tell. I'm certain Canon lost some gear owners over it. I bought into Canon inspite of it. You'll buy a k-7 I guess, inspite of the problem too? Weigh the pros and cons and if you need another camera you buy it.</p>

<p>I hadn't read of the D700 circut board failures and other sporadic complaints you mentioned. Good thing I added their 2 additional years for a total of 3 years house of nikon extended warranty on D700 huh? Both Canon and Nikon have service facilities "inhouse" in USA still. If I need them I'll find out how good or bad they are if I ever need service. As of yet, no service required on either so its all good, for me.</p>

<p>It looks like we've got a sort of "Enemy of the People" dilemma here: a conflict between candor and marketing. And Justin's right: the dynamic of internet is a real factor.</p>

<p>You guys know way more about this stuff but I'm guessing this issue affects <em>all </em> K-7's and that Pentax is looking to address it with a firmware patch--greatly preferred (on all sides) over shipping bodies hither & yon. </p>

<p>In the meantime my decision this spring to get a second K20D rather than hold off for the unveiling of the "new concept" is looking pretty good.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Glad to see you brought your fighting gloves Lindy.</p>

<p>As per my policy, I will no longer argue with idiocrisy, I realized you cannot win such an arguement. Take it as a concession of my defeat and enjoy it. Go buy yourself a beer on me.</p>

<p>As far as the K-7, I am actually not in any rush to buy one, largely because I am really enjoying a return to film and because my K10D still does everything I need for nature/landscape stuff, while my D300 does everything I need for sports. When I need more pixels than the K10D can offer, I shoot 2-3 shot vertical panoramas giving me about 20MPs. If I need more DR I use a digital ND filter by taking multiple exposures.</p>

<p>As far as your statement that the K-7 is finally a replacement for my K10D, you are correct, it's 99.9% of all the camera I will ever need based on my wish list that I have layed out for the last 3 years (well known to the forum regulars) since the K10D. My biggest complaints with the K20D were the inconsistent sensor (yep, no green lines, just moire, banding, shadow noise with DR expansion, lack of ability to turn off NR, etc) and the fact it seemed like the other "upgrades" over the K10D were simply firmware or beta additions. While there is no doubt the K-7 is a total redesign, and added finished features rather than beta features. </p>

<p>No camera is perfect, in the end it's all about getting what suits your needs and has the least flaws.</p>