Jobo 1500 Tank System Problems

I use a JOBO ATL-2300 at home. I have had problems in getting good

results from processing C-41 and E-6, especially E-6. Until recently

I realized what the problem is. I don't know if I should blame Kodak

or Jobo. I use exclusively Kodak chemicals.

 

The tank I use is a 1540 tank, which takes 4 1501 Jobo reels for

up to 8 35mm 36 exposure roll of films, or using only 2 1501 reels

and load with 2 220 rolls of film. There is no problem in loading

so may films into the tank. The problem is it takes 470ml of chemical

only. And Jobo never mentioned that this is actually too little

chemical for so many films.

 

Last Summer I kept having poor results from the whole 5 liters of

Kodak one shot 5 liter E-6 kit. I followed Jobo's technical bulletin

to make processing adjustments with no much improvement. I kept

on processing 2 220 rolls in one tank at a time. And I could never

get my Velvia done right.

 

Yesterday I started out with a new fresh kit again. The Kodak box

contains no instruction sheet whatsoever, except mixing information

and processing times for the steps. Eventually I spent quite some

time looking into Kodak web site for information about the capacity

of the kit. I finally dug out words like: 20 rolls of 35mm 36 exposure

total... My god! the way I used the Jobo 1540 tank system has been

like 20 rolls of 220. Yes, 2 rolls per tank and 470cc each. The 5

liter kit has done 20 220 rolls for me. No wonder the result was

always poor. I always got the films too dark and too constrasty.

Colors were never as vivid and saturated as I hoped.

 

I went to Jobo site and looked up Jobo tank system information. Sure

it emphasizes the capability to process that many rolls of films

in one tank run. Never do they mention only if your chemical has

the strength to do it.

 

Should I blame Jobo? I am not sure. May be I should blame Kodak's

kit that is designed to only process a handful of rolls and you should

buy another one if you want to process more. According to Kodak info

the 5 liter E-6 kit was designed specifically for rotary processors.

Although it does not mention Jobo but I think it doesn't take a

photography expert to know that the most popular rotary processors

are Jobo brand named. I wonder how come the kit is made with only half

of the strength it needs to be. I have always assumed that it is

made to fit the processor.

 

Maybe I am wrong. Does anyone experience the samething? Or am I

having actually other problems? I now process only one 220 rolls

leaving half of the tank empty and feed the tank with same 470ml

of chemical. The result is just nothing but good! After processing

2 rolls with 1000ml chemical I tried to process another short 120

roll and reuse the 1000ml chemical. The result immediately showed

the same problems I always had before. The Kodak kit is just barely

having the strength to process one shot a half tank full of film in a

Jobo 1540.

 

The ATL-2300 is a huge and superior processor in my opinion. But

sadly I can use half of its capacity with Kodak E-6 kit that is

designed for such a processor.

Sounds like you didn't read the Jobo manuals. Or the Kodak manuals.

 

http://www.jobo-usa.com/instructions/instructions_manual_atl-2x00_07.htm

 

 

section 7.2

 

Then again

 

http://www.jobo-usa.com/instructions/instructions_misc_tank_and_drum_capacities.htm

Actually I did. The minmum volume for tank 1540 is 470ml, which also

happens to be the max you can feed it before starting to overflow. So there is no way, if using Kodak E-6 5 liter kit, to process more than one roll of Velvia 220. The tank will take two. But then how can you process if you can't feed more chemical?

 

I did read the menual. But the words are so vague that it just didn't

get into my mind that the number of rolls that the tank can take does

not mean it can process them.

 

The words on #7.2 says: "The quantities listed on the tank and drum labels are the minimum needed. Some processes may require higher volumes for proper results", I guess it means you better not to

think it can process all the rolls it can take. I guess I trusted

the brand name so much and never doubted that maybe the feature

is just a hype.

 

The support page says: "When in doubt, use a higher volume of solutions". Well, 470 ml is all it can take. If I want to process

two 220 rolls as the tank says on the tank with the Kodak chemical

it is just not possible.

 

Or perhaps it is really an issue of the chemical. It appears to me

that I can barely process one roll to get good result. If I had

stuck in another short roll like a 120 the result would have been

ruined. Should the chemical have more strength in the first place?

It has been a couple of years sense I have done any E-6 I've been working mostly with B&W. But I did do alot of testing and this is my my process http://davidrichert.com/my_e-6_method.htm

David, thank you very much for your input. I see some differences between yours and mine in processing chromes. You used Kodak 1 gallon

kit. That may be very different from the Kodak 5 liter one shot kit.

You used 550ml chemical for 4 rolls of 120 but I used 470ml as stated on

JOBO 1540 tank. Most interestingly you did 5:30 min. for color developer

step I did 4:00 min. I think you will get contrastier slides. I scan

the slides afterwards so I desire less contrasty result. With 4 min.

color development I still get very contrasty Velvia. However, the

main problem with my process (two 220 rolls together) is the result

came out too dark. When I changed to process only one roll everything

looks great.

Dave;

 

My reading of the Jobo 1500 series instructions tell me that the 1540 will take 4 rolls of 36 exposure, or 8 rolls of 20 exposure. It also says 4 rolls of 120 or 2 rolls of 220.

 

There is a final note that says that the minimum quantity of chemistry used per unit of film is determined by the kit manufacturer.

 

Further notes say that for best results the 2500 series tanks should be used for large quantities of film or for best 'professional' results. It notes that more chemistry may be used, or must be used for proper results. Logical due to the tank size.

 

I have used both tank systems staying within those recomendations and have gotten excellent results for over 20 years. Admittedly, most of my processing was C41, but I see no reason why the E6 should be any worse.

 

The instructions give time increases recommended if you reuse the chemistry. I usually dump the developers and re-use the other chemistry to exhaustion, increasing time as I go.

 

Ron Mowrey

Ron, thank you for your input. I admit that I wasn't careful enough

to read the manuals or instructions prior to processing of 2 220 rolls

with only 470ml (the max) of chemical. I simply thought it's great

that a single Jobo 1540 tank does 2 rolls of 220 and I dump the

chemical afterwards. It's just great. Wrong!

 

I also have a Jobo tank 1520 which can take one 220 roll. Well, it will definitely be a disaster because it can be fed with only 240ml

of chemical. In my opinion Jobo is at fault to permit a 220 roll to

be processed in a 1520 tank. It will never work. Note that the tank

can take 500ml of chemical if it is not put on a rotary processor

and it will work fine. Same to the 1540 fed with 1 liter of juice.

But when they are on a rotary processor the capacity is only a half.

 

I think this should be stated in Jobo's manual. Unfortunately it is

not. I have learned a costly lesson in terms of time wasted and

images lost. I don't have any 2500 series tanks. I will look into

that. Perhaps I should switch to them.

If I can help...

 

Last month, I bought a 1530 drum to expand my 1520 drum. The combo is fitted to handle 5 135mm rolls filled with 330ml + 240ml = 570ml.

Working with 1 liter Tetenal E6-Kit and wanted to process just 4 rolls, I was a little puzzled. I then decided to go with just 500 ml of soup and my 4 sensia just came out perfect !

I forget to mention that I processed with a CPE-2.

 

Regards.

Are they 36 exposure rolls? Tetenal says its 1 liter kit can process

12 films. But it never says whether it is 36 or 24 exposure rolls.

It never says wheter this number includes rolls processed by reusing

the chemical with extended processing time. I suspect that the 12

rolls is a number of the maximum with reuse of chemical and the rolls

are 24 exposures. I don't think the number means 220 rolls at all.

 

What I really like to find out is if the 5 liter Kodak kit has the

strength to process 2 220 rolls in a Jobo 1540 tank. From what I

have experienced so far it can only do one roll. But if I reuse the

chemical with extended process time I could get two rolls done.

But I would not be too happy with the result, expecially for Velvia.

Yes Dave (if you're talking to me), that was 36 exp rolls.

Thank you guys for the info! I was looking for the reason of uneven development of 2x120 film in 1520 and CPE. This is definitely Jobo fault, they explicitly say you can do that.

Now I wonder if I can put 3x120 in 1520+1530 ? The amount for rotary processing is 330ml. What do you think?

I have used the Jobo max in both 1500 and 2500 series tanks and have had excellent results with EK C41 chemistry.

 

You can put 2 20 exp rolls of 35mm on one reel or 1 36 exposure roll. If you put 2 36 exp rolls of 35 on one reel, you are exceeding their tolerance. My instruction sheets caution against that as the rolls can overlap on the reel. The same is true of 120 and 220. You can only get 1 220 on a reel, but 2 120.

 

I have posted above my usage based on Jobo instructions. I have never had bad negatives in over 20 years. I can match the speed and contrast of my local pro lab. I rarely do E6, so I cannot give advice other than to say my limited experience has been good.

 

Ron Mowrey

Ron, The JOBO 1540 tank will take 4 1501 reels. So theoretically you

can put 4 35mm 36 exposure rolls in one tank. But I really think that's too many and for 470ml of chemical the result will be poor.

 

The tank will take 2 expanded 1501 reels for either 120 or 220 rolls.

Each reel can take 2 120 or 1 220 rolls. So the tank theorectically

can process 4 120 rolls or 2 220 rolls. I think that's also too many

for 470ml of chemical. The actual realistic capacity should be only

half of that number for rotary processing. If the tank is used for

hand manual processing, in which you can pour almost 1 liter of

chemical into the tank, the result should be perfect. So in that case JOBO's stated capacity is

true.

 

I do not blame JOBO nor EK for the problem. But JOBO tanks are indeed

too big to take too many films but too little for enough chemical.

It took me a long time wondering why my result from the huge ATL-2300

is always poorer than my manual processing using little cheapy

tanks and reels in my bathroom. Now I will be happy with the ATL-2300

if I can confirm that my problem is indeed resulted from processing

too many films with too little chemcial.

Dave;

 

Perhaps Jobo is begging the issue by saying that the 2500 series drums give more 'professional' and 'uniform' results. It may be that since they hold more solution per process cycle and unit of film, they have more film capacity / ml used. IDK.

 

I studied the C41 data sheet I have from EK, and it should be able to run 4 rolls of 20 exp 35mm or 2 rolls of 36 exp 35mm in one pint (~450 ml) of developer. It would seem, from my instructions, that you would need a 3 second development time increase to do this in one pint though. That seems to be insignificant, and I never have used it.

 

Actually, I more often use the 1500s for B&W and the 2500s for color, as I use inversion more often for the B&W. But I have used the 1500s for color and have seen no problem as you seem to. I think I should take a closer look at my negatives and see if there is any problem that I missed, but I doubt it.

 

I couldn't swear to this, but I almost always use more developer than Jobo recommends when I'm doing color prints. I may have unconsiously used more for the film as well. For example, I may have used 500 ml instead of 470, and this tiny bit may have made up for the 3 seconds increase recommended by the EK instructions. My graduate is a 500 ml grad, and my bottles hold 500 ml or 1 l, so that is possible. I know that I did that on a run of 12 4x5 sheets recently. I rounded up to use a whole bottle of 1 liter. It was the last of a mix and I didn't want part of a bottle sitting around for a week or so.

 

I might add again that I use fresh developer all the time and dump.

 

Ron Mowrey

"I studied the C41 data sheet I have from EK, and it should be able to run 4 rolls of 20 exp 35mm or 2 rolls of 36 exp 35mm in one pint (~450 ml) of developer"

 

Ron, you are most likely right. 2 rolls of 35mm 36 exposure is half

of the capacity of a 1540 tank. My ATL-2300 can only be programed

to feed 470ml, not 450 or 500ml. So the result should be just perfect.

In the case of 220 rolls. The reels need to be expanded so only 2 reels can be fitted into the tank. The gives 2 rolls of 220 opportunity. And I took that opportunity then they were doomed.

 

Guess can't blame Jobo nor blame EK chemical. The 1540 can take

almost 1 liter for a full load of 4 36 exposure rolls. In this case

both the tank and the chemical will meet expectations. Only when

in rotary processing both are reduced by a half.

 

 

Yes, I am talking about fresh chemical too. C-41 maybe OK if reused

with processing time extended, but not E-6.

Dave;

 

I should have included the 120 and 220 data from my kit.

 

It indicates that the pint of fresh developer requres 10 seconds adjustment for the second roll of 220, or 2 rolls at one time in a pint. Overall, based on the 35 mm information, you can do 4 rolls of 120 / pint with suitable time adjustment, but only 3 rolls of 220 with time adjustment. Also, the time adjustments per unit of the larger film are larger.

 

If you go to the EK web site, they have a page devoted to rotary tube processing of C41 films. I have not read it over lately, but I'm sure it would be useful to take a look at.

 

Ron Mowrey

Ron, thank you so much for your input. I did one experiment. First

I did one roll of Velvia 220 with 7:00 min 470ml chemical. It came out

great. I did a 2nd roll Velvia 220 again with 7:30 and another 470ml

of chemical. The result was perfect and no difference from the first

roll. 3rdly I reused 470ml of the chmecial out of the 470mlx2 used for

the 1st and 2nd Velvia. This time it was a 120 Velvia and I did it for

7:30 min too. The result was obviously darker. I could not consider it

good. All 3 runs had 4:00 color development time aimed at lowering

contrast. I saw from somewhere that higher concentration color developer will reduce contrast. Shorter color developer has similar

effect. Based on the result of the 3rd short roll I believed that

reusing the 5 liter kit chemical is risky. Next time I will try

the samething but with the first development extended from 7:30 to

8:30. This probably will work for Kodak chromes and Astia but not sure

about Velvia and Provia.

Dave;

 

I guess that is not unexpected. E6 is very much more sensitive to process than C41. A small change in concentration or pH will upset the color balance or speed of the film.

 

Quality variations would show up much more slowly in C41 as the developer varies slightly due to seasoning, use, or age.

 

Ron Mowrey