Jena 180mm f2.8 on Hasselblad 1000f

Discussion in 'Medium Format' started by andyfalsetta, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. I do not know if Zork did the conversions, but that would not surprise me. They offered several lenses in converted mounts for general sale back then. I bought a nice Zork converted Mamiya 55mm shift lens in Hasselblad-V mount, it's not that unusual for them to show up used.

    P6 vs SL66 Sonnar

    The CZJ Sonnar 180/2.8 appears to be made with the SL66 in mind, all the controls are forward of the tripod mount, so even for the factory, they just have to change the rear barrel behind the aperture ring. This is also true for the 300mm Sonnar and the 120mm Biometar. All 3 were listed as a catalogue item for the SL66 at one time, so they will show up on the used market every now and then.

    You blank Rollei mount was made primarily for macro and LF lenses. Converting a 180 Sonnar would entail machining a new rear barrel, at which point you may as well machine the rest of the SL66 mount.
    evan_dong|2 likes this.
  2. Poke around long enough in vintage lens threads, and eventually you confirm the 180 and 300 were indeed deliberately designed as a short mount barrel with removable rear barrel/mount section to allow CZJ/Pentacon to easily moderate their stock for whichever camera had most demand for the lenses.

    While I'm sure tom_chow is correct that an "officially sanctioned" SL66 version was purveyed by Pentacon/CZJ at some point, it wasn't promoted directly by Rollei, doesn't appear in common brochures, price lists, dealer sheets or the list of lenses in the final SL66SE/SL66X manual. Most likely because the helical focus ring doesn't jive with the bellows-focus ethos of the SL66, and East German Zeiss Jena wasn't affiliated with Rollei in the same manner as West German Zeiss. Timing might also be a factor, as there were a few late-period "official" lenses Rollei added but did not publicize much (i.e. the scarce SL66 version of Hasselblad's 110mm f/2 Planar).

    The only two mentions I could find of an SL66 version of the 180 Olympia Sonnar are at the SL66 fan site link posted above (which refers to the SL66 mount being "custom attached"), and a couple of posts on a couple threads here on p-net by evan_dong_1 (who described his 180 Sonnar as either "adapted" or "hacked" to fit his Rolleiflex SL66). I saw the vague Zoerk reference at a different forum, along with multiple mentions that Pentacon/CZJ primarily offered the lens in Pentacon, Exakta and M42 mount, briefly fielding Nikon F, Canon FD and Leica mounts (the last three being rather rare).

    I'd agree with tom_chow that the blank mount would not be the optimum way to adapt this particular lens. Check with Zoerk, SK Grimes or other photographic adapter/machinist firms to see if they can supply an integrated barrel/mount adapter like the one pictured earlier. While this would be costly, it may not be as expensive as a complete 180 Sonnar factory-modded by CZJ for SL66 (assuming you could ever track down one of those collectible unicorns). Since the lens is easily found in native Pentacon mount, another affordable option is to simply buy a Pentacon 6x6 SLR just for shooting with this lens (supplemental to an SL66 kit).
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
    peter_fowler likes this.
  3. Speaking of mounts and adapters, it would be extremely useful to know whether all common versions of 180 Sonnar employ exactly the same barrel thread compatible with the same detachable camera mounts. The earliest silver version that John Seaman owned and posted in this thread was supplied in Contax rangefinder mount. Shortly after the Berlin Olympics proved the rangefinder too clumsy to focus/compose with, the Contax mount was removed and the main barrel was screwed into a new reflex housing for the Contax.

    That barrel design was the genesis for later, far more common SLR-oriented iterations having exchangeable Pentacon, Exakta and M42 mounts. Or who knows how many other random, not well documented mounts were once available: andyfalsetta's Hasselblad 1000f mount looks OEM, so maybe CZJ made a few of those, too. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if one turned up here in Bronica S2 mount, given CZJ briefly supplied an 80mm during the EC/EC-TL era.

    The key question being, do all these lenses use the same barrel thread as ye olde Contax reflex housing, and if so which housing thread? There were at least two: the black all-metal "mountlless" Sonnar pictured above by thepaulbrown appears very similar to the lens head attached to the later reflex housing, and might have been removed from one long ago. If it has the same barrel thread as the later "zebra" CZJ and final rubber focus ring CZJ, it could be "made whole" with the same Pentacon, Exakta or M42 mounts common to those versions.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  4. This is what I did - I passed on a CZJ sonnar 180/2.8 in Hasselblad V mount (professionally modified), probably because I already had the 150/2.8. That was a mistake, as it was quite reasonably priced and in excellent shape. But I later got one in P6 mount and use it with a (excellent working) Kiev 88cm body. That's about as close as I can bring this thread back to the OP's.... ;)

    I don' believe so, I have different versions of the 300/180/120 CZJ lenses, and none use the threaded barrel. I believe the threaded barrel was only used prior to aperture automation, once they made mechanism to auto actuate the aperture, the rear barrels were all bolted on. My 300 & 100 also have aperture compensation for focus, and the 300 has an extra pin that transfers aperture value to the camera.
    thepaulbrown and orsetto like this.
  5. Just a quick update. I sent images to the eBay seller and he assured me the adapter was a Zeiss original for this lens in pentacon six mount so I placed the order, should receive it next week. I’ll be pretty pleased as the pentacon six mount seems very versatile. I plan to use it for digital monochrom portraits as well as colour film. Fingers crossed!
  6. @orsetto the mount arrived yesterday and was a perfect fit. Now just waiting on a pentacon six to m42 adapter to mount it on my monochrom. Looking for a pentacon six body now also. Happy days!
  7. Wonder how this lens compares to the Hasselblad 180mm CF lens.
  8. From a "superficial" perspective, the CF is an f4 while the Jena is F2.8. The CF achieves this using 5 aperture blades while the Jena uses a remarkable 18. I've not used the CF so I can't comment on how it performs in comparison. Comments from our usual list of experts though would be encouraged.
  9. Gee, wouldn't it be cheaper and easier just to buy a Pentacon 6 body to use the 180mm Jena lens with?

    Or even a Mamiya 645 and readily-available P6 adapter.

    It's not like the camera body has any effect on the image quality
  10. It does if the shutter curtain doesn't close. :) (Pentacon 6?)
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
  11. Buying another body (Pentacon Six) in order to use this lens without going to the trouble of arranging a mount for my Rolleiflex SL66 is slightly tempting. There is one for sale locally (Australia) but the vendor reports some shutter curtain closing problems. So I've lost enthusiasm! The Mamiya 645 does not appeal for portrait orientation.

    I am still tempted to try to use my spare blank lens mount. A previous post here said that it would not be ideal. Why is that? I wouldn't expect auto aperture!

    I'm also tempted by a Biometar 120mm f/2.8, also usually available in Pentacon Six mount. If I was really lucky and everything worked out I could use the same mount as the 180mm. Maybe that would be too much to hope for.
  12. The original mounts were made in P-6 (Pentacon 6), Exakta 35mm, & M-42 mount. At a later point, there were some made in NIKON F mount. For the ultimate lens hacker, some were made for Hasselblad 2000/200 series, Hasselblad 1600/1000F, Bronica S/S2 and finally Pentax 67 MOUNT. The later lens hacker would require a machinist to fabricate a new solid mount and for the Bronica S/S2 machining the helicoid.

  13. Tom Chow,

    I have a late model CZJ 180mm 2.8 MC for my SL66. Hasselblad 2000/200 series. Also one for my Hasselblad 1000F too.. CZJ1800mm2.8 SonnarMC-01.jpg CZJ180mm2.8 MC-03.JPG
  14. Very cool!
  15. I used the 180 and 300 on my Hasselblad 1000F. When that camera died an early death. A decade later I used on 2000FCM, that I bought new from Ken Hansen. Still using on 2000FCM, but, like Wotan at Walhalla, waiting for when camera will die.
    Can not find anyone who can service 2000FCM...even for a general lubrication. Should anybody have a name, please lell me.
  16. Will not Hasselblad do this?
  17. From what I understand, Hasselblad no longer services 2000FCM. That’s why I asked.

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