Issue with my Epson R1800

Discussion in 'Digital Darkroom' started by thierrylaflamme, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. Is anybody able to tell me what kind of issue I am experiencing with my printer? I cannot get the proper colour management...
    When I print a page from a website, everything seems ok, but if I try to print a picture through PhotoShop or any other software, it's a disaster! I don't know what to do since I tried many different things (replacing cartridges, nozzle check, changing ICC profile...). The problem remains the same.
    00SteU-120001584.JPG
     
  2. ... and now, the original file!
    00SteV-120001684.JPG
     
  3. .
    New profile time.
    When you print via web browser > Operating System (WHAT Operating System, by the way?), you're not calling on the paper profile.
    When in Photoshop, you're color managing, so try turning off color management in Photoshop .
    • - Problem gone? = Fix color management.
    • - Problem stays? = Fix Photoshop.
    Let us know what happens next.
    .
    PS -- And I WISH we'd all get better at headline/subject line contents. This is NOT a problem with your Epson Stylus Photo R1800 printer and you know it already in your opening post, as the printer prints whatever is sent to it just fine. You KNOW this is a problem controlling color sending from Photoshop within a particular, as yet to be named, Operating System!
    ,
     
  4. Thanks a lot Peter, but how can I turn off the colour management in PhotoShop?
     
  5. .
    Hi Thierry,
    So SPECIFICS are hard to find:
    • - Version of Photoshop, and what does the Help system say when you ask there?
    • - Version of Operating System - Windows XP or Vista or Mac or WinME?
    • - Paper / Ink ICC profile?
    Anyway, bypass Photoshop selection of paper ICC printer/paper/ink profiles in two places (in Windows) by
    (1) carefully unselecting it in Photoshop's [Print with Preview] menus, and
    (2) in the [Printer / Select / Setup] tabs from Epson from within the Photoshop print menus.
    Also, (3) just Save As a JPG, and then exit Photoshop, and print the file directly from the operating system to see what comes. I'll bet that very same file prints perfect directly from the OS ... which bypasses the paper profile.
    In the Photoshop and Epson menus, what are the 700 or 800 selection choices you are making in coordination with each other? You are making a cheat-sheet, right?
    ... and, is this NEW problem, and Photoshop USED to print just fine in the past, or is this the first time you are printing altogether? If it USED to print okay, review your arduous and copious cheat-sheet to confirm what's changed. If nothing has changed, I suspect a corrupt ICC paper profile -- uninstall and reinstall the printer, and or download replacement profiles for that paper from the source, such as Epson at:
    http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/..._UseBVCookie=yes&oid=14121&infoType=Downloads
    Let us know what's next.
    .
     
  6. Did you do a nozzle check? Are all colors present with no gaps?
    Look for Patrick Lavoie's how to print on an Epson threads which he posts here every few weeks. Use photoshop print with preview and select the right profile. Select a rendering intent other than absolute colormetric. In the Epson driver, for color management click ICM and then off. Set paper type and settings to whatever the paper you are printing on recommends.
    If you continue to have problems, call Epson.
     
  7. Thierry,
    I have the 1400, so the procedure is probably the same. In PS, when you click file/print, a print dialog box should open up. On the right is Color Management, which gives you a drop down. I'd start with selecting Photoshop manage. (No management can also be chosen here).
    Below that is printer profile, which hopefully you can find the one for the exact paper you are using.
    Then click on print. That will bring up a new print window, which is for the printer. Find layout and click to get the dropdown. Click color management and select off. You will now have color management in PS and not in the printer, so there will not be a double correction. See if that helps. You can also go back and turn off management in PS and turn it on in the printer and see if that's any better.
     
  8. I'll try everything you suggest and let you know if I still have the same problem after. Hopefully not...
    I already know that changing the "profile time" did not improve anything, neither turning off color management in PhotoShop. It is really bizarre.
    I sincerely appreciate your help though. Thanks a lot!
     
  9. .
    Roger, a printer nozzle check is not indicated as a possible culprit when the printer prints just fine from other applications. Thierry already narrowed it down to something in Photoshop's environment.
    .
     
  10. My exploitation system is Windows 2000 Pro.
     
  11. .
    Now, your Photoshop is v4? ;-)
    That's okay, I'm still using v7, v6, and v5!
    I've been printing from free http://picasa.google.com/ -- you need old v2 for Win2K, I have it running fine on WinME even!
    Tell us EVERYTHING -- you're troubleshooting Photoshop now ... and by the way, did it EVER print fine from Photoshop?
    .
     
  12. "Roger, a printer nozzle check is not indicated as a possible culprit when the printer prints just fine from other applications. Thierry already narrowed it down to something in Photoshop's environment."
    I disagree. All he said above was that prints from the web are fine but not Photoshop *or any other program.* Is he printing pictures from the web? If not, printing basic color documents may not turn up issues with the printer. I think I see horizontal banding in the image above which hints at nozzle issues. Ditto for the replacement of one color with another- could be that one color isn't firing.
    Thierry, if you want useful help, and didn't find that the advice here or in Patrick's threads solved your problem, please capture screenshots of your driver settings and upload them. I use a R1800 with Photoshop 7 and CS3 myself.
     
  13. .
    Yep, Roger, it's good to re-read the opening post:
    Earlier: "... I cannot get the proper colour management... When I print a page from a website, everything seems ok, but if I try to print a picture through PhotoShop or any other software, it's a disaster! ... "​
    Color management problem, not nozzles.
    .
     
  14. .
    So, Thierry, what "other" software besides Photoshop also prints surprisingly wrong?
    Also, is this a NEW problem and the R1800 printed just fine from Photoshop until a recent change?
    Or is this your first outing with the R1800 and you've NEVER gotten Photoshop or other program's color management to work predictably?
    First I wanted to check color management in Windows, and it is supposedly implementable one way or another in Windows 98, ME, 2000, XP, and Vista, though differently in each, so general "instructions" are then useless -- thank you "Microsoft -- where compatibility is job none! ". There's much reading to do for anyone to help you, and for you to resolve your quandary. Here from the horse's mouth:
    Color Management and Windows: An Introduction
    http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/icmwp.mspx
    An Overview of Microsoft Image Color Management Technology
    Updated: December 4, 2001
    Colorspace Interchange Using sRGB
    Introduction to Color Management
    • Color Is Pervasive Across Media, Yet Difficult to Reproduce Consistently ...
    Why Color Management is Required
    • Color Management at the Operating System-Level Brings Advantages Over Application-Specific Color ...
    Image Color Management Features ...
    "Designed for Microsoft Windows" Requirements for Color Management ...
    ... [snip content, see web link above] ...
    For More Information
    The Integrated Color Management (ICM) APIs and functionality are described in the Microsoft Platform SDK, available through MSDN Professional Subscription http://msdn.microsoft.com/ and the Windows DDK http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/ddk/default.mspx
    For information about the ICC Profile Format Specification, see the International Color Consortium web site at http://www.color.org/
    World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) HTML 4.0 Web site: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/
    W3C CSS 2.0 Web site: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
    W3C sRGB Web site: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/Color/sRGB.html
    See also the world's collective thoughts on the subject, here from the Borg:
    Color management From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_management
    ... [snip content, see web link above] ...
    References
    1. Fairchild, Mark. "A Color Scientist Looks at Video" http://www.cis.rit.edu/fairchild/PDFs/PRO29.pdf
    2. Rodney, Andrew. "The role of working spaces in Adobe applications" Adobe http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2ip_colspace.pdf
    3. Rodney, Andrew (2005), Color Management for Photographers , Focal Press , pp. 32–33, ISBN 0240806492
    4. Upton, Steve (February 2008). Vista's New Color Management System: WCS http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/Vista's_New_Color_Management_System_-_WCS
    5. Microsoft (1997-04-23). "Microsoft Licenses LinoColorCMM Technology To Improve Color Management in Windows" http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1997/apr97/linopr.mspx
    6. Smith, Colin; Kabili, Jan (2005). How to Wow: Photoshop CS2 for the Web http://books.google.com/books?id=I1...ent=firefox-a&sig=xr_yp7U_lzTv6M3KeChpRgAkTX8 Berkeley, CA: Peachpit Press. pp. 13. ISBN 0-321-39394-5 "Many designers choose not to include ICC Profiles with Web files because most Web browsers can't read them and they increase the size of a file."
    7. Color Management add-on https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6891 by Sean Hayes.
    8. Firefox 3: Color profile support (oh the pretty, pretty colors) http://www.dria.org/wordpress/archives/2008/04/29/633/ Deb Richardson, Mozilla Corporation.
    Further reading
    • Fraser, Bruce; Bunting, Fred; Murphy, Chris (2004). Real World Color Management . Berkeley, CA, USA: Peachpit Press. ISBN 0-201-77340-6 .
    • Schwartz, Charles S. (2004). Understanding Digital Cinema: A Professional Handbook . Focal Press. ISBN 978-0240806174 .
    • Morovic, Jan (2008). Color Gamut Mapping . Wiley. ISBN 978-0470030325 .
    External links
    ... so, Thierry, one of us is going to have to take complete inventory of your system from embedded color spaces in image files from your camera, through to color management and profiles at your printer interface. Perhaps reading something from one of these additional search results will help:
    Alternatively, try that R1800 on another computer, even a friend's computer, to see if a more modern system that is already printing color to another printer can also prove that the R1800 is sacrosanct, and you need color workflow consulting support .
    Me? I'm half way through (and have been for a year) that Real World Color Management book by Bruce Fraser, Fred Bunting, and Chris Murphy -- as abstruse and obfuscating as it can be, but it has a nice metamerism checker color chip in the back cover, so it's really quite useful ... at least when you get to then end! ;-)
    Thierry, in your next post, PLEASE walk us through specific details of every link in the chain from image file to printer -- it may not help us, but knowing every detail will definitely help you. Somewhere in the details will be an "Oh! " moment for you when you suddenly see sRGB on one side and AdobeRGB on the other, or you see ICM on both the Photoshop management controls AND on the Epson management controls (doubling of color management == too much yellow?).
    Let us know after a few days of intense reading how we can help further.
    .
     
  15. I'm amazed by the amount of help that I get here.... You're so nice guys.
    So, I'm using PhotoShop 7 with Windows 2000 Pro. My printer is Epson R1800 and the paper is heavy matte. However, with the new ICC profiles available on Epson's website, I cannot find this specific name for paper. So I choose "Ultra Premium Presentation Paper."
    The attached file contains all my settings when I print (from the Printer, then from the color management in PhotoShop.)
    Hope this will help to establish the proper "diagnosis". :)
    -Thierry
     
  16. I also have to say that I print with PhotoShop for a long time and I never had issues like this before. I was using a basic printer Epson CX7800 (all-in-one).
    A month ago, I decided to buy the Epson R1800. Since then, I've never been able to print a single picture (!) with proper colors. The quality looks aweful and it's almost like if the new printer was trying to convert any normal pic in some kind of painting... (see above)
    Moreover, I tried all kinds of settings (different paper, time colour management...) but nothing improved.
     
  17. I'm amazed by the amount of help that I get here.... You're so nice guys.
    So, I'm using PhotoShop 7 with Windows 2000 Pro. My printer is Epson R1800 and the paper is heavy matte. However, with the new ICC profiles available on Epson's website, I cannot find this specific name for paper. So I choose "Ultra Premium Presentation Paper."
    The attached file contains all my settings (from the printer to the color management in PhotoShop.)
    Hope this will help to establish the proper "diagnosis". :)
    -Thierry
     
  18. I think your problem may relate to out-of-gamut colors. Soft proof your image (View menu) and turn on the gamut warning (Shft+Ctrl/Cmd+Y) and see of the out-of-gamut colors correspond to the gray regions in your printout. I experienced a printout problem like this about five years ago, with Photoshop7 and an Epson SP870 inkjet. Unfortunately I have forgotten what I did to resolve the problem, and it has not recurred. Today I found the print I made with the problem and scanned it (attached image). The flowers are yellow tulips, and the bright green color you see is the out-of-gamut warning color I had selected in PS7. I realize this is not very helpful, but it may point you in the right direction.
    00SuGK-120253584.jpg
     
  19. Um, not gray regions, yellow regions...
     
  20. Thierry, I see from your Adjustments.doc file that you are doing color management in the Epson driver (ICM box checked). If you are also doing color management in PS7, you are "double profiling" which is a problem. Try turning off color management in the driver and adjusting your image so there are no out-of-gamut colors (using Custom proof setup, selecting the printer profile you will use, and the rendering intent). Then, in the PS7 print dialog, select Show More Options, Color Management, Document, and select the appropriate Epson profile (if you are using "Matte Paper Heavyweight" the "Ultrapremium Presentation Matte" profile should be fine). [Epson's inclination to change the names of their papers from time to time is more than a little confusing!] Set the rendering intent to agree what you used when soft-proofing. Then make a print and see what you get. Good luck!
     
  21. .
    No, ICM is ON in the Epson menu and OFF in the Photoshop menu, so there's no duplication of color management, but I'm not used to letting the printer do it's own color management -- turn it off, and turn it on in Photoshop! Try in the
    • Epson menus [x] Off (no color management) and in the
    • Photoshop menus, RGB color on.
    And while you're at it, why not convert to AdobeRGB? Oh, I'm just complicating things.
    Also, try this: save as sharpest, least compression JPG, exit Phhotoshop, and print from any other application and turn off Epson ICC mode, instead try
    • [x] Color Controls Gamma 2.2 or
    • [x] Photo Enhance
    just to see if you CAN print happy-making. Try test printing from free http://www.irfanview.com/ if you have no other imaging software.
    Let us know what you find.
    .
     
  22. The situation is getting worse and worse... I don't know what to do...
    (See below)
    00SuJJ-120283684.JPG
     
  23. Here are my new settings:
     
  24. .
    Yup, you have an untagged RGB and no color management. Try converting to AdobeRGB and using color management in Photoshop. You're gettin' there!
    Or, try test printing a JPG copy (automatically sRGB colorspace) from free http://www.irfanview.com/ if you have no other imaging software JUST TO GET AT LEAST ONE HAPPY PRINT.
    .
     
  25. Thierry, I just scrolled down your Adjustments.doc file and saw your Color Settings. You are not color managing in PS7 by default? This is most unusual. And you certainly do not want to use your monitor profile as a working space. The usual choice for the settings is "North America Prepress 2." Then choose Adobe RGB or sRGB as your RGB working space. Turn off color management in the Epson driver, but set the other parameters (paper type, print quality...) appropriately. Then make the PS7 print dialog settings as I recommended previously, after ensuring during soft-proofing that all the image colors lie within color space defined by the printer profile you will use. Make a print, report back...
     
  26. New settings (part III)
    Please let me know if you see something wrong.
     
  27. First, this picture is untagged. Before the print screen, go to "assign" and pick whatever it really is- sRGB or Adobe RGB.
    Next, select the "document" as the source space.
    Then for print space you do not want to use adobeRGB or absolute colormetric- how did you come up with these settings? Why didn't you read Patrick's threads on "how to print on an Epson?" You want to select the right profile for your printer and paper (probably something starting with SPR) and pick a normal rendering intent like perceptual or relative colormetric.
    You will save yourself a lot of future headaches by buying a basic photoshop book. I used Real World Adobe Photoshop and it's very accessible.
     
  28. As Roger says, your image is untagged. In PS7, go to Image>Mode>Assign Profile and assign sRGB. Then set your PS7 Print dialog to look like that in the attached image, except your Print Space Profile should be that for "Epson Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte" (or whatever it is called) for the R1800. Your Color Settings and R1800 properties windows look OK. )You might want to reduce the size of your image to something like 3"x4" at 360ppi just to save ink until you get things sorted out.)
     
  29. As Roger says, your image is untagged. In PS7, go to Image>Mode>Assign Profile and assign sRGB. Then set your PS7 Print dialog to look like that in the attached image, except your Print Space Profile should be that for "Epson Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte" (or whatever it is called) for the R1800. Your Color Settings and R1800 properties windows look OK. )You might want to reduce the size of your image to something like 3"x4" at 360ppi just to save ink until you get things sorted out.)
    00SuO6-120321884.jpg
     
  30. the untagged RGB is not a reason for why the OP get bad color..a simple color management workflow would get thing up and running. Why all the other *solution*?
    1_from photoshop select the LET PHOTOSHOP DETERMINE COLOR (if you have it or something similar) define the correct ICC profile in the Print space Profile (like in Ben screeen shot), press print. When in the Epson dialogue, select no color adjustment. Press Print and enjoy.
     
  31. I have to admit that I tried almost everything without success. Then, late Sunday afternoon, the printer told me that I had to replace the blue cartridge. I did. Then, I got a message telling me that the printer wasn't able to recognize the red cartridge (!) which was working before I replaced the blue one (moreover, all cartridges are genuine from Epson.) I replaced the red one last week and it was still 98% full.
    No need to say that I'm really getting tired of it. I never had any issue with a printer, until now. This bring back the desire to work in a classic darkroom with chemicals, rather than a computer.
     
  32. Yes! Everything is working GREAT! Thanks to all of you; your help was more precious than words can say. I'm so happy!
    Have a wonderful week!
     
  33. Glad to hear it. You have a very good quality printer for both matte and glossy papers.
     
  34. Do I understand correctly at the end of the thread that the problem was solved when you changed the red ink cartridge? I have had an issue with my R1800 that after putting in new 'Epson' ink, prints have not come out the same. (XP, CS3, no color mgt, IMC, glossy icc etc. all according to the book.) Thanks.
     

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