Is this a good deal?

Ok here is the deal, my colleague has a used K100D for sale. The equipment list is as follows:

 

Pentax K100d Digital SLR body (Includes Warranty until 2011 and original packaging, accessories and receipt)

-Pentax DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 Zoom with hood

-Pentax 28-90mm F3.5-5.6 Zoom with hood

-Pentax 100-300mm F4.7 Zoom

-Pentax MZ-6 35mm Film Camera body

-Optex tripod, extends to 6'

-ROOTS camera bag, fits all equipment plus.

-2gb SD Card, cleaning kit

 

I have been looking at the Reble XTI and XSI, Sony A-350, Oly 520, and of course the newer K200D.

 

I primarily will be shooting nature/outdoors, macro, my family, and I like to be creative. Friends have seen what

I have shot with my Fuji S1000FD and they have been impressed. They have also expressed interest in me taking

pictures of their kids/family for X-mas cards etc, and they would be willing to pay me to do it.

 

I would like a camera that will last me as I get more knowledgeable (honestly if this camera could last me at

least 2 years I would consider it a good investment). I love the idea that Pentax is backwards compatible with

it's lenses and I am sure I can find some good deals on used ones.

 

My budget for a camera at this point is around the $1000 (Canadian) all in but that is the very top end. I am not

so worried about accessories at this time.

 

What do you all think of this? The camera is in MINT condition and there are around 1100 pics taken so far.

Really this camera has been used very lightly.

 

Thanks in advance for your input, like a lot of people going from a p&s to a DSLR, this is a big investment for

me and I really would like to get the most for my money. There is SOOO much info available on the cameras I am

interested in and I have been looking and reading reviews for the last 2+weeks and oh my gosh it can be overwhelming!

 

P.S. I have gone into Henry's and had a chance to fiddle around with the different models (except the Oly 520 as

it wasn't in yet but I played around with the 510).

 

Mike

No, imo. A new k100D with kit lens can be bought new now for $498. All the other gear listed above is little use for me, may worth $500 only if you are realy intersted in film body.

 

Instead I would buy as new the K100D Super with 18-55 II kit lens for $549. Beware, the II (Roman two) for the kit zoom is esential, and, according to some people, it makes a difference versus the first incarnation of this lens. The Super version of the body too worth the $50 difference versus the non-super, I mean prices for new items. I would complement for $349 with the DA 55-300, so a $900 total, but new gear, and superior quality. Remains $100 for tripod and cards.

If you're in Canada - Future Shop has the K100D Super on clearance for $399 with 18-55mm kit lens for $399

assuming you can find one at the store near you. You can pick up a DA 50-200mm for $199 and an FA 50mm f/1.4 for

$199 also. Add a 4GB high capacity SD card and a Lowepro Flipside or Slingshot bag, some rechargeable batteries,

a cleaning kit, a couple of UV (0) filters and a polarizer and you're within your budget with all new gear + the

Super works with the new SDM lenses and has dust removal while th original K100D does not. That being said the

original K100D is a fine camera and will provide outstanding image quality and exceptional low light performance.

Either way you can't go wrong.

 

Also one important note, the Pentax warranty in Canada is 2 years so I don't see ho you can have a warranty until

2011 with used gear. Hope this helps. Cheers.

Am I blind or you have not stated what's your friend's asking price is? If I am not blind, that would be a key information to tell you if that's a good deal or not.

Sorry everyone the price is $600 for everything

Ah, you fooled me believing your budget of 1000 is what your friend requested.

 

Hard decision, in this case...

Renato, hard decision for sure! You see my dilemma... I want a good camera and all of the ones I am looking at are great, but do I get the used kit and then put $300 towards an external flash, or save a bit more and get a good lens.

 

The kit itself is pretty complete, but could benefit by better glass IMHO.

You could get your friend's kit and then sell the stuff you do not want. If you keep the K100D and the kit lens you will have good basic DSLR. On the other hand, you can get used K10D for about $500 (sometimes even with the kit lens). This would leave you $500 for lenses and accessories.

 

I have K10D with Sigma 17-70mm lens and I like this setup. Sigma is good for macro and its very good walkaround lens. You will get shake reduction, SDM lens support and more professional look/feel with K10D over K100D.

Maurycy,

 

Thanks for your advice. I have looked for a used K10D but haven't had a great time finding any (so far).

Whatever you do, buy an FA 50mm f/1.4. You will find it your go-to lens for those pictures of your friends you want to take.

Not a bad deal at all. The MZ-6, aka ZX-L, is an exceptionally nice 35mm SLR camera! You'd have to look with care and spend some effort to find a good one, then hope it is ok, not having been mistreated. That alone is worth around $150 or more in fine shape. It has an advanced flash system that complements the same on the K100D and other current Pentax models. It is one of the models I have and I think its one of the best compact film SLR's from any make! It can use the oldest or most current lens- it can use the lens aperture ring, or adjust aperture electronically from the body. Some old lenses require using the aperture ring, and some newer lenses do not have one! The K100D with only that number of shots is indeed low use. Perhaps worth $275 on used market by a private seller.

 

But you have the considerable advantage of knowing the seller, and able to personally examine the merchandise!! Very important!!!

 

The other lenses plus accessories are certainly worth $200. If it were me, I'd sell off the 28-90mm and look for a better alternative. The FA 28-105mm f/3.2-4.5 is one possibility. Not that it's terrible- it will provide fairly decent results, but from the photo examples and test results I have seen, a so-so performer, even for the inexpensive entry-level zoom lens that it is, so I'd be looking for a better replacement, but everything else seems to be of good quality. The original kit zoom is very good, especially for an entry kit zoom lens, and built above average also. It is small and light, and works well with the built in flash. It is of the type designed only for digital camera use.

 

What is especially attractive is that in one fell swoop, you can conveniently pick up two of the best-ever compact film, and compact digital SLR bodies at a decent price, with some good lenses and accessories, apparently from a reliable source, and explore both media. When attending an event where you will provide sets of prints for various people, film is often more convenient and less expensive than digital, in my experience, and a digital CD can also be supplied with the prints. At that price, your remaining budget will still allow room to expand, say for another lens and a good Pentax flash unit.

 

Knowing what I know regarding film and digital equipment, and being in your shoes- having only a digital p/s model, I would go for this unusual deal.

Michael,

 

Thank you very much for your detailed response.

 

I have used the camera and I really like the way it handles and yes it truly is in fantastic condition. It's not the easiest decision to say the least :)

 

Cheers!

The kit sounds like a pretty good deal that will allow you to learn and find out what you like and need. As others have mentioned the glass is on the entry-level/average side. The MZ-6 is a very nice film camera and could be easily resold if you didn't want it for yourself. The two longer lenses were probably a budget two-lens kit purchased with the MZ-6. I second the FA 28-105 f/3.2-4.5 upgrade suggestion particularly if you're planning to keep the film body.

Hi Andrew,

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Being that I am not going to print anything larger then 8X10 with the glass that is included, would I still get

acceptable prints?

 

Nobody that will be looking at the shots are pro's (just friends and family). I just want to make absolutely sure

that if I get an older body, will it be enough to allow me to grow and as I get more proficient with the camera,

and I won't have to upgrade in the next year or so (body not lenses).

 

I am honestly no as concerned about all the bells and whistles at this time, just a good quality body and then a

good lens as time goes on. I am having a hard time finding the Pentax SMCP-FA 28-105mm here in Canada, anyone

have suggestions?

 

Thanks!!!

Yes, your prints would be acceptable. Have patience for the FA 28-105mm. Discontinued now for a couple of years. A good one will show up eventually. Just make sure it is the f/3.2-4.5 model, as there were two other FA models of the same focal length. This one is amazingly small, yet having a faster aperture than average, which is nearly impossible to achieve in the same lens. Faster virtually always means bigger and with less zoom range. Very good optically, and nicely made. Actually, I think I saw a brand new one still in stock shown in the Adorama website, one of the largest camera stores in NYC.

 

For not making prints larger than 8x10 the K100D is more than good. Fine image quality right out of the camera. Relatively easy to use, compact and lightweight, but very well made with advanced features. It has some advanced features not always found in this price range, like mirror lockup, depth of field preview, and a true spot meter available. The MZ-6 also has a lot to offer. Its quality is limited just by the type of film you put in it or the glass you put on it. So even a very advanced photographer would find advanced tools available with these camera models. Plenty for you to grow with, and not at all necessary to upgrade. Better to put future money in high quality glass and other accessories. I still shoot with both of these models, and enjoy the compactness plus quality they offer.

Thanks again Michael for all the help in this, I really appreciate it.

 

Just to make things more confusing, I went to Henry's on the way home to get a feel again for the different camera's and they now have a deal on the Canon Rebel XSI. It is now $829.99 with a 18-55mm kit lens but they are also including an extra battery, UV filter and bag... TEMPTING to say the least.

 

I am going to be speaking to my 2nd cousin on Friday as she is a professional photographer and see what she thinks of my options.

 

Again to everyone, THANK YOU very much for taking the time to offer your opinions. Please feel free to add comments as I am open to any constructive criticism!

Pros think like- well pros. Of course, what else to expect. They favor all very fast, expensive lenses and larger heavily built bodies, and have good reasons for this in view of their needs. I have been in photography for over 30 years, and know some pros. I have had interactions with many. They often don't, however, think far outside their type of interests, which is understandable.

 

I have some of this type of gear myself, expensive as it is, but I find I am most often not in need of lugging the weight, and can get fine quality without doing so. But for those times when I do need it, nothing else will quite do the job.

 

The Canon Rebel XSi, I believe to be a very good model. Seems to have a feature set covering the advanced needs I mentioned. Considerably more money though. Does not have in-body shake reduction, however, for hand held shots using telephoto lenses or in low light. You have to buy that kind of feature in each lens separately, which cost much more money than lenses not having it. With the K100D, you can aquire an older model lens, some of which are especially fine optically, yet inexpensive, and the camera provides the anti shake feature with that lens!

 

I have respect for any of these camera brands, as they all have some products with admirable design.

 

I will say, that Canon kit lens, though testing well in labs, is a straight out piece of junk! Really of the cheapest crappy build quality. So much so I'd be very leery of it holding its alignment, even with reasonable care, and its manual focus mechanism is a bad joke. There is a current test comparison of that Canon camera and 4 other models, including the Pentax K200D in Popular Photography magazine. I have a recent post here about the results, which you might find of interest, but you may also find a copy in a library to read.

 

Don't let the increased megapixel race sway your decision. The importance of added mp's is grossly over rated and more about marketing. In fact, it is easier for a 6mp model to be designed with less inherent digital noise at higher ISO settings, so that sharpness is not lost from greater noise suppression smoothing out detail. This often happens with higher mp models which have tested lower noise figures. The K100D is actually an exceptioanlly good low light and higher ISO shooter. Nikon's extremely fine top professional model D3, costing $thousands, is full frame- a larger format, and 12 mp. So the 12 mp is distributed essentially over twice the area of a conventional format, resulting in any given area in the frame having the same pixel count as a conventional format 6mp model. It also achieves very low noise at higher ISO with little loss of detail. The more you go into it, the more there is to learn.

I just thought, Mike, you should find the thread from 7-15 by Miserere Mei, "Shooting in the dark: the K10D rocks at ISO 1600" very interesting to illustrate very well about the effects of using SR for hand held shots at slow shutter speeds, and also low light shooting using high ISO settings. Mis was using the excellent Pentax K10D 10mp camera, and through some careful processing, and converting to B&W, succeeded brilliantly in getting some very clean, low noise results.

 

But what will set you back on your heels, is Renato's post in this thread of a shot he took with the K100D, IN COLOR, also using ISO 1600, with no special processing efforts at all!! Remarkably clean, very low noise imaging in low light, and these were done with SR activated, hand held at only around 1/15 sec shutter speed, using a lens in the tele range!!!

Michael,

 

You are absolutely correct in saying the more you go into it the more there is to learn, we never truly stop learning do we.

 

I am not worried about the MP at all, honestly 6mp is more then enough especially when you look at some of the cameras in particular the Sony A300 and A350. The 300 actually performs better because the 350 tries to cram the extra MP's onto the sensor.

 

I completely understand what you mean about the pro's and the way they think, Of course I would like the best of the best but heck, I don't have ten's of thousands of dollars to spend and it would be an absolute waste of money if I did.

 

Anybody can take a picture but honestly not everyone can take a great picture. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if the photographer loves what they shoot, the who cares what anybody else thinks right? There is so much more involved in taking a picture then people realize, but in the end as I said before, if you like it and are happy with it, then that is all that counts.

 

My understanding is this, the only way somebody will really see the difference (in a higher end camera) is if they really know what they are looking for. The vast majority of us look at a picture and let our emotions take over, how does the picture make us feel, what do we like about it etc.

Michael,

 

WOW that is very impressive to say the least!

 

Let me ask you this, (without opening up another can of worms). Would it be advantageous for me to go with the K200D? I can get it for $630 tax's included (new).What is your opinion of the lens that comes with it?

Mike,

 

Purchasing the K100D is limiting you. Who knows where you will go with your photography in the future!

In my opinion, your best bet would be to find a used K10D on Ebay, or purchase a new K200D, or the K20D. All three cameras are great. You will need more than 6mp in the long run. Sometimes, you will need to crop an image to make it look greater and by having a 10 to 14.6 mp sensor, you can still produce razor sharp images even when cropped. As for the glass, the sky is the limit. You can start with a new DA 18-55mm II, or the FA 50mm f/1.4 (excellent choice like Miserere Mei pointed out), the DA 16-45mm lens was my favorite until the DA* 16-50mm came out, but the glass could be purchased later as your system grows. Actually, I would buy your friend's equipment at $600.00 and resell it all separately on Ebay for more. If you think he or she would be upset, keep the K100D and the DA 16-55mm for a while but sell the rest and get a great lens. Later on, you can upgrade to a better Pentax DSLR and keep the K100D as back-up or sell it. Your friend will understand that is the progression of being in photography. Mind you, the K100D is a good camera. You need a good flash AF-360FGZ or AF-540FGZ.

 

Good luck. With Pentax cameras, you're in good company.

 

Best Regards,

 

Yvon Bourque

I don't know about Canada but the FA 28-105 f/3.2-4.5 can be found used at KEH and new at Adorama last I looked.

I have little doubt that the K10D and K200D are in most respects similar to or superior to the K100D but the

K100D isn't lacking much. It remains an excellent body for the price and offers all important features for

learning. Those lenses while not spectacular are still quite capable of producing very good 8x10's. The 28-90

you mention may be serviceable optically but it is a bit slower (2/3 stop at the portrait focal lengths you're

likely to use) and has a pretty cheap build--polycarbonate lens mount rather than metal, rotating front element

(inconvenient for filters), lousy manual focus ring (no distance indicators). That being said, I'll bet most

would be hard pressed to

tell the difference between images captured with that lens and much 'better' lenses at f/8 or f/11.

 

<P>I don't make a habit of using pop photo for lens decisions but I did uncover reviews of these two lenses when

they were first introduced:

<P><A HREF=http://www.popphoto.com/cameralenses/362/lens-test-pentax-28-90mm-f35-56-af.html>Pop Photo FA 28-90

f/3.5-5.6 review</A>

<P><A HREF=http://www.popphoto.com/cameralenses/367/lens-test-pentax-af-28-105mm-f32-45-if-and-al-zoom.html>Pop

Photo FA 28-105 f/3.2-4.5 review</A>

Everything has its advantages. Yes, with heavy cropping, 10mp is better to preserve quality. Myself, I do little cropping, and then of moderate nature, my efforts being for on the spot composition the way I want it.

 

I just got my K200D today. A very impressive model indeed. Weather sealing, and yet still compact, which is important to the way I operate. I got the battery grip too, so I can have backup power and make the camera beefier for handling bigger lenses. I took it with the updated kit lens II at a good savings. I also bought the Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 pro style weather sealed tele zoom lens with it, as here in the US I get a $100 rebate on this lens, and another $100 rebate on the camera.

 

I really don't "need" this camera. My IQ with the K100D has been very fine. Getting the K200D is purely a luxury, had at a very good price with rebates and all. I can easily afford it, or the K20D for that matter, but I like compact and its feature set, plus fine performance. Some new features and upgrades since the K10D. I figured, if I want to shoot in some drippy conditions, not to worry with this model, and the price is right. But it goes up to ISO 1600 max, where it will be about equal to the K10D you saw used in the thread. The K100D handles that with ease, and still is decently usable in a pinch going to its max of ISO 3200. I was also reminded how much I love the K100D's sturdy but lightweight quality upon handling the K200D, which has more heft, though still compact. So I will continue to use both models, according to the situation. When walking a lot or biking, probably the lighter K100D. When shooting fast action and high ISO for fastest shutter speed, like a hockey event, the K100D. Otherwise, especially in damp weather, and for using larger lenses, the K200D.

 

The K100D will continue to serve as my lightweight alternate, higher ISO shooter, and backup body.

 

I still shoot plenty of film. It is also a great learning tool. You practice with empty camera, and learn to get your shots right. When you master exposure with slide film (sensitive), and metering a scene well, you will have achieved something worth knowing.

 

The K100D is an exceptionally nice camera. Renato's sample photo is worth a thousand words. I have no qualms about putting some really fine glass on it, for use at both high and low ISO.

 

I don't know how you found it, Andrew, but those are good info links regarding these lenses!!!

UPDATE...

 

I can now get this kit for $500!!! I honestly think at $500 I really shouldn't pass this up.

 

BUT...

 

Another kit I am looking at is a Canon 20D with 3 lenses for $800

 

Canon EOS 20D (8.2 Megapixel) along with the BG-E2 Vertical Grip/Battery Holder (fits 20D and 30D), two BP-511A

batteries (with one charger), one Lexar 2 GB Professional Compact Flash Card, and three lenses:

 

EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM Autofocus (with EW-73B Lens Hood)

 

EF-S 60 mm f/2.8 USM Macro Autofocus + UV Filter

 

EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM Autofocus + UV Filter

 

The indecision continues!!!! :)

If it were me, I'd go for the $500 deal!! That is a great price. You'd NEVER see a difference between 6 and 8 mp. Back in march 2006, POP Photo had a shootout between comparably priced models from 6 brands. Some were 6mp and some 8mp. An extreme blowup of a model's eye was used, way beyond any enlargement most people would consider. Upon covering up the captions, no one here could tell which were 6mp or 8mp!!

 

The Canon 17-85mm IS USM lens should be quite decent. Seemingly, not a bad price, especially with a 60mm Canon macro lens also. Just those two lenses sell for more than $800 new! Those two lenses are the real attraction. But no telephoto is offered beyond 85mm. Other than that one zoom lens, you'd have no SR unless you fork over considerable $$$ for a Canon IS telephoto range lens, to complete a full range system. No 35mm film model is included. The Canon 20D has no true spot meter available. An important tool for precision metering. No costly pro camera is without one. If you would soon be looking to upgrade to say a 40D and a tele zoom with IS, you'd be looking at some serious cost outlay. And then, if having say also an interest in a nice, fast aperture, Canon 50mm prime lens for portrait and low light use, you'd still have no SR with it.

 

With the Pentax deal, you have personal knowledge of its background. It is a great price, so you could resell after a couple of years, if you like, and lose little if anything. With a full range system, including telephoto, and a very good matching compact film model as well, you would be able to shoot over a great range of focal lengths, and determine what focal length range you like to use most often, and have a very good idea where to put your money towards some high end glass. You could soon acquire say an excellent, fast, Pentax F model 50mm f/1.8 prime lens, used, for reasonable cost, and you get SR from the camera. You'd have quite a range of tools to learn a lot about photography.

 

BTW I was not trying to discourage the idea of getting a K200D- it is one helluva camera, and now that the price has come down, very exceptional for the money. I just wanted you to know what each offers. And for $500 you would sure get a lot of very useable gear, covering a wide range of uses!!