Is spending worth the hassle?

<p>Hello everyone! I have some questions.</p>

<p>I've been wrecking my brain on what I should do to follow a career in Photography Its something I love doing. The problem is that I can't decide how to go about it. I'm 20 years old. I want to travel and one day do things for National Geographic and other publications. I don't want to invest so much money into a school though, I looked at school that interested me such as Brooks but they're very expensive. They teach what you need to be a photographer but in the long run a bachelors or masters doesn't really matter in the photography world.</p>

<p>But I do want to get an education involving my passion. Can someone assist me so I can understand a bit better? How often do you get to travel when you're in this profession? Does schooling matter with my career? I read the overall price for Brooks is about 80 thousand for tuition plus expenses and the cost of housing and living there is expensive as well. It seems like a lot to invest. I just need some guidance. I have a girlfriend but I'm afraid we may fall apart so that's stressing me as well. </p>

<p>Thanks to everyone.</p>

<p>In the UK, there are more students on photography degree courses than there are jobs as photographers. Do you belong to a camera club? Many have at least one pro photographer you could talk to. Mine (30 members in a small town) has a professional sports photographer and a couple of semi-pros.</p>

<p>What genres are you most interested in? How creative are you? Are you technically competent? Can you deliver what people want (and have you tested it)? Are you well organised, a good people person and someone with a business brain? Have you tried volunteering (e.g. offering your skills to voluntary organisations who need good images)? Have you a portfolio of work or are working towards developing one? Are you good at having your work critically evaluated and learning lessons from your mistakes, or are you too precious about your images?</p>

<p>When you've had a go at answering these questions honestly, you may be in a better position to decide if a career in this field is really for you!</p>

<p>Actually, I'd be much more tempted to invest in a profession that pays enough to afford photography and travel as a hobby. <br>

Being a pro photographer is maybe 20% photography and 80+% running a business.</p>

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<p>Simon: I do have experience with taking pictures for clients and I guess you could say I'm skilled at what I do according to other people. I just want to know what to do career wise, if I should goto school or not.</p>

<p>Bob: So you're saying I should go to school for business?</p>

<p>First off, there are more schools than just Brooks Institute. Brooks is what you call a for-profit school, meaning that they are in it to make money off of the student, and they don't receive any type of funding from the State (hence the high price tag). There are some benefits, mainly you don't have professors who are focused solely on research and getting published (showing their work in galleries) and you typically get some good one on one attention. Schools like this are the Art Institutes, Academy of Art, and pretty much anyone who posts ads that read something like "Get a Career in Photography" on Facebook or something.<br>

State schools, or other private institutions in my opinion can offer some great alternatives. If you want to see the best State Schools, check out USNews.com for rankings (and visit them as well, you said you like to travel).<br>

I know some of the top photo programs are University of New Mexico, Yale (good luck), Rhode Island School of Design, UCLA, and quite a few others. Just check it out.<br>

<br />As far as deciding whether to study photography, you have to love it, I mean REALLY love it. It's a ton of fun to work as a professional photographer, but also a tone of work. There is more to it though than just wedding photography, and I'm not gonna lie, the Nat Geo jobs are few and far between. But you can find jobs where you travel all over. I have a friend who is a contract photographer for Patagonia, Mountain Hardware, and Black diamond to name a few. He basically gets paid to rock climb and snow board. This guy has a degree. Plus a lot of the professors at the Universities used to work in the real world (the higher ranked the university, the better the job). Ansel Adams used to teach at Rochester.<br>

Now is it true that you can be successful if you don't go to college. Yes, but define successful. I think what you are looking for would be better attained through the help of some real professionals. I would second some of the advice given as well. Learn some business skills as well. At least an accounting class so you can keep your accountant honest. Good luck.</p>

 

<p>Another issue is whether you are looking for formal qualifications or appropriate 'training'. Even though I'm a retired academic, I sometimes question the value of some degree level qualifications. I agree on the need for business skills (my area) too.</p>

<p>The advantage of school is that you're exposed to many new ideas and concepts that you never heard of before. The disadvantage is that many "professional" photography schools will try and force you to conform to their way and vision of doing photography.<br>

The best compromise is to read everything you can, buy the best equipment you can, and see if there any local community colleges that teach art and photography courses. You can learn a lot from professional photography schools but you are also saddled with a huge debt that could take you decades to pay off, as photography seldom pays well.</p>

<p>If you want to be a photograher get a business degree or associate degree. As one who has had a photo business, it is, in my opinion,, 80 per cent marketing and selling oneself and 20 per cent photographic knowledge. From my anecedotal experience my self taught photography skills were enough to attract new business with samples of old business. I am still learning about photography some fifteen years after going into business where I learned a lot to start. I think, however, if you want to move beyond your own business into the world of images the future looks pointed to combined still photogrhy, cinematography, rapid wireless communication of images, the web, and other fast progressing media. Then it may be well to acquire some formal education in a broader spectrum of visual arts and electronic communication in this rapidly advancing future use of electronic media. I think there is a whole world of visual communication waiting for us as foreshadowed by multi-purpose electronic devices that just include photography among other multifunctions. Witness the wi-fi and gps in some current cameras. What else is going to occur. It is old technology but I talk hands free to my car and a woman answers and dials a number for me. Pretty soon my car might learn to make digital images and report back to me. It could also be a man that dials the number because my car already contains a number of different voices. </p>

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<p>They teach what you need to be a photographer but in the long run a bachelors or masters doesn't really matter in the photography world.</p>

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<p>You say that like it's a fact but it's not. It's one often mimed by others in photo forums. Perhaps not for travel, fashion or XYZ photography but the "photography world" is large and the facts are there are many in house photographic positions where a photo degree is useful, if not required, such as academia, forensics, medical, libraries, corporate, museums, aerospace, research and underwater photography. Yes, not the glamorous jobs you, or most people, think about but real, good paying photography jobs. Hard to learn-perhaps, good at math-yep, toil for years to slowly advance, sure. Maybe not for you but just because you read something on the internet, doesn't mean it's a fact. For as much knowledge and helpful advice there is on the internet there also a good amount of well meaning ignorance. </p>

<p>I'm not saying Brooks is the best place to go or if any formal program is better than another for the kind of work you wish to pursue. A lot depends on your temperament, goals, self-discipline and level of self-sacrifice you are willing to endure. You are always your own best teacher but formal training can speed things up and lend guidance. So can taking seminars, reading books, assisting or finding a mentor and just plain, old getting out there in the trenches and earning a little sweat equity. Do you know what Brooks motto is? "Learn by Doing". You can pay them $$$$ to help you get off the couch, turn off the TV, leave your mates at the pub and give you assignments to shoot, or.......?</p>

<p>You will see advice, and I will echo it here, to stay in school and earn an undergrad degree in business and psychology. This is sound advice. No matter what area of photography you pursue, that track will give you a knowledge base that will be truly beneficial to you in any photographic endeavor. While doing that you can be building you photo skills and experience in tandem. </p>

<p>There is no one best path. No easy solutions. But at your age, the road is wide open before you. Your dream is achievable, but the road is long and difficult. So firm your resolve and take that first step.</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>academia, forensics, medical, libraries, corporate, museums, aerospace, research and underwater photography.</p>

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<p> <br>

I've never met anyone working in these areas as a photographer who had a photography degree. In forensics, you need a certificate in a program that does not require a degree. Same thing in medical. Most of the others, it helps to know about the subject matter more than photography, because you need to know what to photograph. What school offers a program in aerospace photography or underwater photography?</p>

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<p>I've never met anyone working in these areas as a photographer who had a photography degree.</p>

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<p>You've met one now. I have been on both sides of the interview desk. You won't get a job in my studio, or any other major museum in the U.S., without a degree. As a corporate photographer for years for the Bentley Nevada Corp, you needed a degree. The same was reported with my colleagues at Boeing, NASA (aerospace), and the National Archives. I have applied for work at major universities like UC Davis and UCLA and research facilities like Lawrence Livermore Lab and all required degrees. Often there is some flexibility as to major depending on the institution. But to say, as the OP, that a photography degree from Brooks or R.I.T or Art Center has no value is inaccurate. A long time ago things were different. You could apprentice at a low level and work your way up. No more. The competition is too stiff. Even if the job description states a degree is not required it is generally preferred.</p>

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<p> <br>

In forensics, you need a certificate in a program that does not require a degree.</p>

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<p>That depends on county policies. In Los Angeles county, when I applied for work at the LAPD, a B.A. degree, along with forensic certification, was required. A Master's degree was preferred.<br>

</p>

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<p>What school offers a program in ... underwater photography?</p>

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<p>Brooks Institute.<br>

</p>

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<p>I want to travel and one day do things for National Geographic...</p>

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<p>How nice. Google "I want to work for National Geographic." Now google "wedding photographer." The number of search results should be about equal. There is nothing mystical about photography. The rules of supply and demand still apply. Odds are you will NEVER work for National Geographic... unless the mail room is acceptable employment for you. Now that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. But you may want to have a back up plan. I am an amateur. While I've sold some of my work I do not have the inside scoop on the rapidly changing professional photography industry. What I can say is if you want to do the most to ensure gainful employment is to seek a solid four year degree. You do not have to go to an Ivy League school. I would go to a relatively cheap in state school and live on strict budget. If you want to travel don't burden yourself with a bunch of student loans.</p>

<p>I also would shy away from putting all my eggs in the photography basket. You can double major in college and you can also get a major and a minor. Now that might involve a heavier work load during the semester or some summer school but you will be much more versatile once you graduate. So you could get a business degree with a minor in fine arts. Or a computer science degree with a minor in fine arts and concentrate on web development. Get creative. Just don't overspend and be too focused on one narrow thing.</p>

<p>Also what someone else said about getting a career where you make enough money to travel and shoot as a hobby is another consideration. I know plenty of yuppies that shoot what they want when they want. They have plenty of money for gear and travel and they don't have to put up with clients, editors, or bosses.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for your advice, I really appreciate it.</p>

<p>I think Jeff Sudduth advice would work best for me. Finding another career allowing me to make the appropiate funds to travel and shoot sounds a lot better then burying myself in student loans that will take forever to pay back because of how much a 'hit and miss' the photography business can be.</p>

<p>Again, thanks to you all.</p>

<p>I earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Mechanical Engineering. My company paid me every month and paid relocation expenses for several international assignments. During holidays at these various locations and nearby countries, I was able to photograph many interesting people, events, and sights. I was able to retire at 58 years old and now live in one of those international locations. Good things do happen to those who are willing to work for them and perhaps more importantly, are patient. I believe that you are headed for the right track in finding a well paying career and never giving up on your dream for who knows what the future may bring.</p>

<p>I earned a Bachelor of Science degree in Mechanical Engineering. My company paid me every month and paid relocation expenses for several international assignments. During holidays at these various locations and nearby countries, I was able to photograph many interesting people, events, and sights. I was able to retire at 58 years old and now live in one of those international locations. Good things do happen to those who are willing to work for them and perhaps more importantly, are patient. I believe that you are headed for the right track in finding a well paying career and never giving up on your dream for who knows what the future may bring.</p>

<p>I've wrestled with the same question, but I've decided against photography school for a few reasons. First, it's very expensive and I'd rather invest my money in good gear. Second, in this age of the internet, you can virtually learn anything you want online. There are some very very good websites which I have learned so much from. I took a few small photography courses where I live, and spent close to $400 on them, but I probably learned just as much or more online. I could have spent that money on a new lens or bought Photoshop CS6. I like learning on my own terms and at my own speed. Being in a classroom slows me down because of other people. If you want to connect with other photographers, there are clubs in your city or online (like Photo.net). Lastly, it doesn't matter how much education you have, if you aren't out taking pictures it's pointless and a real waste of time and money. I believe being out and taking pictures is the best way to learn. You can only get better by practicing. You can only get better by making mistakes when shooting in real life situations. Then you can go back online and find out why you made your mistake and how to correct it. All the best photographers in my city are self taught. I have a friend who has his Master's degree in fine arts in photography, and he rarely shoots and has a day job. I think it really comes down to how determined you are. Personally, I'd rather work a day job that affords me the money to invest in good equipment, learn from good reputable online courses, find a mentor, and shoot shoot shoot!!</p>

<p>OK...so here's what I would do if I were in your situation. Instead of going out to pursue academic credentials, I would find myself a business school that specialized in self employment and ran 3-6 week/month courses in business start up 101. Why? A good, competent school will guide you though the process of what you need to do to start your own photography business. During the process you would get some realistic feedback and made to do some real world analysis of the business. Hopefully you'd do some market analysis - who are your customer; how will you find them; how much will they pay you.<br>

At the end of the course you want to have a thorough and complete business plan including financial projections for the first 5 years. <br>

My own experience - having successfully started and grown businesses in other sectors - is that you'll find making a profit large enough to live on and also to keep your equipment up to date will be nearly impossible.<br>

My best advice to you is to go find a trade - plumber, electrician, general contractor, etc. - that's where the real money is buried. Give yourself an income that will allow you support your passion for photography. Don't let your passion for photography keep you in your parents basement for the rest of your life.</p>

 

If you want to work for NatGeo, Harvard, Yale, the University or Missouri or Stephen F. Austin in Nacodoches, Texas are

better choices than Brooks or similar schools which are primarily interested in turning out commercial photographers. If I

were you and in your shoes I'd first look for a workshop taught by Sam Abell, David Alan Harvey, William Albert Allard.

There is also the Eddie Adams Workshop, Rich Clarkson's "Photography at The Summit", and excellent week long

courses taught by working documentary and photojournalists at the Maine Media Workshops and The Santa Fe

Workshops.

"Second, in this age of the internet, you can virtually learn anything you want online. "

 

If all you are interested in is tech stuff or "attaboy" critiques on your photographs from random people then what you say

is true.

 

On the other hand if what you want is the real interest and human interaction with someone who might actually have a

deep and personal interest in the types of work you want to do, who has developed a very critical sense of what works

and does not in your photographs, than you need to seek out teachers and mentors in the real world. Who knows, they

may even have contacts and can open doors that will otherwise be closed or worse invisible to you.