Jump to content

Is photonet falling behind? [Mirrorless Cameras]


DickArnold

Recommended Posts

I have to go elsewhere to find out what is going on with Electronic View Finder Interchangable lens cameras.

Why is this important to me? Because I have one in addition to an array of Canon equipment. I have one

because I am interested in where this technology is headed. To my pleasant surprise I am doing some quite

decent quality work with this EVIL camera particularly with head shots and small groups. The pictures show

very well on the web and they are hard to tell from Canon shots of the same type pictures. The EVIL camers

has its limitations with slow lenses and focal length and certainly won't replace my Canon big iron. However I

did try it on active swimming competiton this past weekend and was surprised by the reslults. However this post

is not about that. It is about PN not being involved in the entire mirrorless revolution as other important photo

sites are. This is much better covered in other sites forcing me to go elsewhere for the wealth of information and

up to date reviews of rapidly evolving EVIL product introductions. In addition I have a Lightroom plug-in on

another site that allows direct, quick uploading of pictures of larger size than taken here on PN. I have also

encountered some resistance on PN for this upcoming technology on which apparently Sony is leading the

way. There is not much here on PN about any of this. However, now with Nikon in this field it seems more than

ever to be taking off. I have found my Sony NEX 5N with EVF to be highly useful.

 

 

 

I have had to learn a lot of new terminology and a host of new camera functions to use the 5N effectively. I go

to a site that seems to be well ahead of PN in many areas and I get a lot of very useful information about a

major paradigm shift I am indergoing with this new camera. Of course I use the Canon gear that I have had and

used over the past twenty some years but I find the 5n very useful addition. This past weekend I used it in very

cramped quarters to shoot people. It was very effective in this situation and produced very acceptable, postable

pictures. I have been a loyal PN use and contributor for five years. I have learned a lot here without a doubt. I

am not leaving PN but my attention is being increasingly focused elsewhere. Is PN falling behind the

competition? Sadly, I think I am beginning to drift away from here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

<p>I have done my little part and reviewed the Nikon J1 for photo.net: <a href="../equipment/nikon/j1/review/">http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/j1/review/</a></p>

<p>If other models (from any brand) are available, I'll be happy to review a few more, but I have a busy full-time job so that what I can do for photo.net is limited. I am interested in learning more about this still new category of cameras, but I am more selective on what I would like to review. The Sony NEX certainly looks interesting and I may end up with one some day, but so far I am exclusively an SLR person since the 1970's.</p>

<p>I am a bit puzzled why Canon has not entered this market. Of course, Nikon had not until just a couple of month ago. I would imagine that we'll soon see some Canon mirrorless cameras.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Dick, <br>

I come here for the forum discussions more than anything else. It is a good community here, with a lot of long time contributors. I also prefer the layout and graphical qualities of p.net.<br>

The new Sony NEX-7 camera is certainly nice looking, but I have been an SLR user since the 1980s and have no plan to switch. I like to see through an optical finder, and have the ability to use my cache of Nikon lenses, manual focus and AF. I am very satisfied with the Nikon SLR I have currently and am curious to see what will be introduced next year. If anything I would buy a mirrorless camera as a smaller travel and walkaround camera, not as a replacement for my SLR.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I hope this isn't a gearhead site? A camera is a tool--you buy the one you think will meet your needs, and you take pictures with it. Reviews are opinions. Opinions are like certain orifices; everybody's got one. I shot with a Panasonic G1 for a bit. No way can I tell its files from my D70 or D200 without 'cheating'. The only way I could learn about it was by using it--most of the functions are the same as a DSLR. Only thing missing is the R.</p>

<p>Far as I can tell, there is no 'competition' between PN and other sites. You can join as many as you like. This one tends (thank the Powers) to be more about photography than toys. It seems to have a LOT fewer inter-personal feuds than some others, and a somewhat greater degree of intellectual discussion. If you're looking for stuff about Eye-Cue or See-A, there's plenty on PN, but there are sites that are far more obsessive about that sort of tail-chasing.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I just don't see the function of P.net as a "news site".<br>

<em>Popular Photography</em> does that sort of thing ( http://www.popphoto.com/ ) and there are lots more that are completely web-based. I'm not surprised that there are other sites that will be "ahead" of P.net in covering the latest thing.</p>

<p>Maybe the replacement of the mirror (and soon enough the shutter) by totally electronic devices will come soon. Maybe not, but it will come.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

>>> A camera is a tool--you buy the one you think will meet your needs, and you take pictures with it. Reviews are opinions. Opinions are like certain orifices; everybody's got one.

 

Even though in the end cameras are tools, I strongly disagree with your stance. Well done/researched/considered reviews are invaluable. I especially like Bobs' in

consideration of his objectivity and technical background.

www.citysnaps.net
Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>These EVIL designs are here to stay and will grow as a segment of market share. They aren't "news" anymore, and are an integral part of the future of cameras. I own a lot of SLRs and DSLRs, but have no problems with the EVIL design and will likely be buying at least one sometime in the near future. When I want to obtain information and gain from the experience of others, like most, I will go where all that sits. </p>

<p>[As to the feuds, tail-chasing and intellectual discussions, all I will say is: <em>Ahem.</em>]</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I enjoy Photo Net. The participants do a lot to help people with their photography, covering a wide swath of folks from the beginner to oldies like me as well as people who participate from many places on planet earth.<br>

<br /> The structure of the site is wonderful. Josh does a fine job. Thank You Phillip.</p>

<p>Many other people help those who post questions here. I've learned a lot and I hope I have helped others who ask questions with my participation.<br /> <br /> For 2012 I plan to renew my membership and also offer constructive evaluations to those who post their photographs, continue responding to others posts in a helpful way.<br /> <br /> Photo Net is like a two way street, learning and helping.</p>

<p>"I have one." If you have one of those new mirrorless cameras why not post a review here on photo net. I could learn from you as I'm sure others would learn. What have you learned from other sites that could help people here?<br /> <br /> Happy Holidays.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I wouldn't count out Photo.net for their reviews or lack of current info. I just read some of Shun's Nikon J1 review and appreciate his mentioning how the camera heats up after 4-5 minutes of video capture. That's detailed info I'ld want to know about before the purchase.</p>

<p>dpreview can be just as informative but I can't stand reading white type on a black background. It's downright irritating. </p>

<p>The problem with Photo.net's reviews is they don't show up at or near the top of the page on a google search of the product in quesiton. Guess whose does?</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>I don't know how much general interest there is right now. I reviewed the Pentax Q - http://www.photo.net/equipment/pentax/q/review/ - as as of right now there are no user comments or questions attached to the article. That suggests to me little general interest in the camera, though it's possible that nobody has found that article yet!</p>

<p>The whole MILC/EVIL market doesn't seem to know where it's going, with everything from tiny P&S sensor cameras (Pentax Q) to full frame (Leica M9), with Nikon picking another sensor size, Olympus going with M4/3 and the rest (so far) going with APS-C. Canon has yet to join the game. Some need new lenses, some take existing DSLR lenses (or can have them adapted). The whole area seems to be trying out the options to see what the market wants.</p>

<p>I actually recently bought an Olympus PEN E-PL1 for myself, and although I could write a review at this point it is probably a little late since the camera has been out for a couple of years. I'd be glad to look at and review the new P3 if I could get my hands on one. If Josh wants me to do that and can get hold of one for me, I'm up for it.</p>

<p>We don't have an anti-MILC bias, but photo.net isn't a site that attempts to report every single camera the manufacturers release, nor do we attempt to review every one of them. We tend to spend our limited resources on interesting or popular cameras. MILC cameras are gaining in popularity and I'm sure we'll be reviewing more of them. I'll be first in line asking for a review loan when Canon finally get around to releasing theirs!</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>There are probably thousands of camera and photography related web sites out there. photo.net can't really compete with dpreview when it comes to lab oriented testing and measurement but the dpreview forums are more about gear discussions than learning how to create better photographs. </p>

<p>There are threads about Micro 4/3 and Sony NEX equipment on photo.net. If you want to talk about something then create a thread and post something. If it is interesting then people will reply. You got 3 pages in response to your post about pro mirrorless cameras. Was that not enough? If not then there are specialty sites like rangefinderforum and many many others that you probably already know about.</p>

<p>I bought a Sony NEX C3 and ended up not liking it and returned it but I certainly don't feel like I'm falling behind anything for not liking not nor am I telling someone else they're dumb if they do.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Maybe Dick's point is a lack of a dedicated forum/area? Although so far the micro-4/3rd stuff seems to go well in the Olympus and 4/3rd forum, the Nex in the Sony/Minolta corner... but it's not clearly designated so. Just a thought.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>entire mirrorless revolution</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Living in a tourist city in Europe, I see absolutely zero revolution. DSLRs everywhere, and on occassion a NEX or Olympus m4/3rd. If it's a revolution, it's a slow one over here.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Actually MILCs are the fastest growing segment of the camera market right now, but that's because they are starting from zero and are new. What their eventual market share will be in relation to DSLRs and P&S compacts nobody really knows.</p>

<p>The best numbers I have are that mirrorless cameras had (in 2010) 30% of the interchangeable lens camera market in Japan, 15% in Europe and about 10% in the US. So DLSRs still have 70% of the market in Japan, 85% in Europe and 90% in the US. I'm sure the US market will expand more now Nikon have the 1 series and I presume Canon's eventual entry will also boost sales. </p>

<p>What you see depends on where you are. I've been places (like consumer trade shows) where most of the attendees taking pictures seem to be using iPhones!</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill Clark. I do not have the qualifications of Bob Atkins nor the equipment to evaluate my 5N. I will briefly give my impressions. I will do that by describing the 500 person swim meet I photographed at a major college venue this past weekend. I took a 5D, a Canon 24-105 f4L, a 70 200 2.8L and the NEX 5N. I usually use the 24-105 for heads and groups. I did not this time. I used the 5N for that purpose. I compete in these meets as well as photogpaph them. I swim seven events in two days plus three relays. So I stay very busy.

 

I used the 70-200 for most of the action. First and foremost the 5N is a joy to move around on the deck with because it is so light and out of bright light the lcd viewfinder is impressive compared to my 5D. I also have an EVF and I shot both with it and without it. The EVF is surprisingly good. You can see DOF with it. It is almost 100 percent and although I have heard complaints about 5N focusing I have had not trouble with it. I use center focus, object tracking and a feature that outlines the edges of the image that are in focus. The EVF gets grainy in low light although it works. I shot the entire meet with at ISO 1600 as the light in the arena is variable and sometimes quite dim. I cannot tell the difference between my 5D and the 5N with noise on my monitor although at times I was using 3200 on the 5D. The 5N does just short of four frames per minute with focusing on each frame. I also used it a ten frames per minute using only first frame focusing. I had enough DoF to get some very sharp images. The 1.5 crop sensor is the same as used in some Nikon DSLRS. I really like to get my fellow swimmers unposed and the movable screen can be used extended like my old Bronica chimney finder. So I got a lot of unposed pictures. When you go from EVF to lcd the lcd shuts off. However, you have to shut the camera off if you stick it in the bag because if not the EVF thinks your eye is up to it and turns itself back on and uses up your battery and the camera gets hot. This EVF is quite clear, the colors are what are on the image. It's little tough in direct bright sun but I like it better than the lcd for framing images.

 

 

The menus are a nightmare. Sony has introduced so many features like in camera like HDR, combining rapid multiple exposures to a single image in low light, sunset settings,fifty exposures in camera panoramas that work very well, etc. that it is hard to find them all going through menus. I have my favorites set up on soft keys and I have no trouble when I actually get to shooting.

 

 

Overall I think Sony is early in paving a new pathway for cameras of the future. I am using this camera almost every day and I really like it. I still have to use big lenses for sports and the 18-55 kit lens although quite good in practice but is soft around the edges. Their version of IS is quiet and does a good job. Because of the unique mount you can't use the flash and the EVF at the same time and the little flash that comes with is kind of puny. I can't wait to buy the emount 55=210 lens. There is a very slight delay in action on the EVF but I got some usable swimming pictures by using multiple exposures particularly at ten frames per second. I am getting very decent prints out of this camera. I am not going to return it. I am going to use it.

 

 

I am an old, broken down, crotch sprung aviator who used take great delight in checking out in new airplanes. I am taking great delight in checking out in this new camera. I agree this is about pictures but like my airplanes I have to know enough about this camera to keep from crashing or cooking the camera with the EVF left on in the bag.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Thanks for your impressions, Dick. As good as any other hands on review.</p>

<p>I've seen plenty of discussion of these cameras here but I think there is a bit of diffusion since they fit in so many categories from Rangefinders to Digital Camera to camera specific fora. Heck, I've been shooting a up a storm and talking about my Samsung NX100 with Canon FD lenses over in the Canon FD Forum! Not exactly the first stop for someone seeking information or to view results. Perhaps due to their enormous versatility, it needs to be that way. </p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Photo.net is not mirrorless friendly. It hasn't been since, ahem, ever. I goto other sites for mirrorless info since I bought a Nex well over a year ago. IMO camera phones will *eventually* take over the compact segment while mirrorless with will take over the dslr segment...That said, dslr's are seen as "pro" gears by the majority of the population and it will for a long, long time...especially us, stubborn Americans.</p>

<p> </p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<blockquote>

<p>Photo.net is not mirrorless friendly.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I think you're confusing a general ambivalence about such cameras (this early in their just-starting-to-become-useful history) with PN being somehow hostile towards them and their users (which it demonstrably is <em>not</em>). Photography is photography. When someone asks about composition, lighting, focal lengths, post processing, legal issues, and all the rest, the choice of camera sometimes never comes up, and is often completely irrelevant. <br /><br />Forums/threads that are <em>about</em> a particular device or flavor of technology aren't going to have much of a profile here until more of the sort of people this site attracts find that flavor of gear to be more useful <em>to them</em>. This isn't PN's shortcoming, it's that camera format's way of being less compelling - so far - to enough of this site's members that they're not all gabbing about them all day long. But plenty of members do. <br /><br />Saying that PN is unfriendly to mirrorless cameras is like saying PN is unfriendly to Olympus or Pentax users. Which is silly. There just aren't as many <em>of</em> them out there, relative to the type of people who are mostly members here so far. Give it time (or, shorten that time by showing the value of these small formats to skeptical people who don't feel the call, just yet, to own one.</p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Canon has had two (or three) *film* camera bodies that were near silent in operation: the pellicle (sp.) mirror design was used by Canon years ago. Sony has brought the idea to digital. One of Sony's models has a thermal-protection mode: I've yet to see such a *option* on a Nikon DSLR. </p>

<p>Progress?</p>

<p> </p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<blockquote>

<p>Photo.net is not mirrorless friendly</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Photo.net is friendly to anything that the manufacturer is prepared to loan for review. I don't recall ever turning down anything for review, even stuff I'm not particularly interested in myself. Obviously our first pick will be those items of interest to most members or anything that's really new and innovative, but nothing is excluded.</p>

<p>Of course photography is all about, well, photography, not what box you slap on the back of your lens to capture the image. We don't do excruciating detail reviews, but I'm happy to give my opinions and anything the camera manufacturers are willing to let me play with for a week or two and so are most other people who review for photo.net.</p>

<p>I don't see full size (APS-C or Full frame) MILCs as being particularly exciting myself, but I'm happy to look at them. At the moment my view is that if you're going to haul around large lenses with full or APS-C frame coverage, it really doesn't matter all that much what size the box is that you attach to it (within reason).</p>

<p>I can see the benefits of the smaller systems though. Micro 4/3 with micro4/3 lenses and the Nikon 1 system, and to a lesser extent the Pentax Q (which is just about on the limit of proving that it is possible to make things <strong><em>too</em></strong> small). Being able to carry the camera with a decent zoom lens or fast prime attached in your pocket is something that's pretty much impossible with an SLR.</p>

<p> </p>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Matt, in my book...Being not friendly and being ignorant of something are quite similar. I didn't say PN is hostile toward mirrorless, just not friendly. In order to be friendly, you got be familiar about that something at the least. Much like a South Dakota town not being friendly toward, say, public transportation. Or, say, a Florida population not friendly to ice skating...</p>

<p>Maybe it's just semantics...Are we Americans not friendly, hostile or plain ignorant toward, say, green tech, Matt? I'd say, we, the majority of Americans are either not friendly or ignorant but *not* hostile toward green tech. </p>

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<p>Thanks for your impressions, Dick. I can read the numbers in any of a zillion places on the web, and I do, but the truth of numbers is one thing, and the personal experience of someone who has become at least acquainted with the gear is another truth entirely.</p>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...