Info on Shneideritis?

Discussion in 'Large Format' started by mark_erickson, Jun 7, 2003.

  1. I just read Kerry Thalmann's article on Caltar lenses in View
    Camera. In it, he mentions "Schneideritis," a problem with black
    paint on lens elements in some Schneider lenses. I did some web
    research and found very little information on it.

    I'm really interested in any informed comments on the following
    questions:

    o) What does it look like?

    o) How might it affect image quality?

    o) Is it worth fixing?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. ...apologies in advance for spelling "Schneider" incorrectly in the title....
     
  3. It looks like small (tiny really) white specs on the sides of the glass elements (against the inside of the barrel)...It most likely has no effect on image quality!
     
  4. I own several schneider lenses that have "flocking" as it is
    generally called.

    it is a common problem with german glass in general, you will
    find lots of leica lenses that have it also.

    I have never had a problem with it, and the kind of people who
    freak out about it generally don't take to many pictures.

    you will actually see this happen to schneider lenses as new as
    8-10 years old. once again, it has no effect due to the fact that it
    is not in the light path.
     
  5. I talked to a tech at Schneider and the official word from them is that it is a harmless malady and they do not consider it on their lifetime guarantees as anything that degrades. Below is that conversation. You have to start at the bottom and read uphill.

    -----------------------------------------------------------



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Michael Klayman [mailto:Michael@schneideroptics.com]
    Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 11:21 AM
    To: jgalli@sandia.gov
    Subject: RE: schneider-itis


    Mr. Galli,

    This won't affect image quality at all. If the lens element completely
    disengages from the housing, it might shift in the mount and go soft, but
    just bubbles in the housing will not cause this.



    Regards,

    Michael Klayman
    Technical Specialist
    Schneider Optics, Inc.
    michael@schneideroptics.com

    >>> "Galli, James W" <jgalli@sandia.gov> 10/03/01 01:32PM >>>
    Michael,

    Thanks for a timely answer. The only question unanswered is; Does the
    phenomenon degrade the image in any percentage over what the same lens is
    capable of producing if repaired? Has Schneider done any tests to determine
    anything like this.

    Thanks again, very much,
    Jim Galli

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Michael Klayman [mailto:Michael@schneideroptics.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 9:32 AM
    To: jgalli@sandia.gov
    Subject: Re: schneider-itis


    Mr. Galli,

    This is somewhat normal for lenses of that era. As long as the bubbles don't
    start joining each other and growing over 100% of the surface, there's no
    problem. This happens because the glue separates from the black paint. The
    lenses won't move around in the mounts at all. I would definitely mention it
    to any interested buyers, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a defect in
    the lens. You could always send them in for repair if you like.



    Regards,

    Michael Klayman
    Technical Specialist
    Schneider Optics, Inc.
    michael@schneideroptics.com

    >>> "Galli, James W" <jgalli@sandia.gov> 10/02/01 11:52AM >>>
    I own over a dozen large format schneider lenses from the 1980's. They all
    have varying degrees of air bubbles on the flat black painted surface in the
    group barrels. What has caused this? What if any is the remedy? Does it
    degrade image quality? Should I mention it as a defect if I sell my lenses
    on the used market? None of my lenses are still under any warranties as I
    have purchased all used. I could provide serial no.s if you would like.
    They are G-Claron's, Componon-S's, and Symmar-S's and Caltar S II's
    Thank-you.

    Jim Galli

    jgalli@sandia.gov Photometrics Tonopah Test Range

    jimgalli@lnett.com
     
  6. I've also had Canon 35mm lenses that are like this, and it really has no effect. The only problem I could imagine occuring is that the flecks of paint may migrate into the lens barrel and could land on the surface of the element, and even that's not so serious. This probably happens to all sorts of lenses that have black paint on the rims of the elements, but it is particularly visible on wide lenses, because of the shape of the elements.
     
  7. I have a 240 G-Claron with it, as described in the magazine. attached is a pict -- the glued portion that has the bubbles is the black, just outside the gray inner ring. The bubbles are myriad (many, many more than show up on this quick pict) of air bubbles -- look like a seven-up or ginger ale. I suppose, in theory, that th bubbling process could lift the lens off the mount a few microns and thus disrupt image quality, but in practice this is very sharp, and if Schneider had a quality problem they would have stopped it many years ago or offered a shop re-glue, so, as I am pleased with the G-clron, I see no reason to pursue repair. However, as the mag says, it could, conceivably, affect resale value -- I bought this off internet, and was somewhat surprised to see them thar bubbles. Actually, there are so many, that is looks like a deliberate manufacturing design; I initially thought of a cobbled, cushioning mount of some description. Front and rear, by the way.
    005G98-13107284.JPG
     
  8. I enquired with Midwest Photo in Columbus, Ohio about Schneideritis. When asked if it would affect image quality, the staff member said probably not, provided 70% or more of the paint remained attached. I then asked how the condition affects value. I was told that lenses with Schneideritis sell at a significant discount, as most potential buyers who see it immediately attribute the appearance to element seperation. Midwest usually will not take lenses with much Schneideritis in trade, I was told.
     
  9. I happened to call Schneider today ( at Kreuznach factory ) for getting information about exactly the same phenomenon, clearly to be seen inside my Symmar-S from the mid-seventies. The gentleman there, apparently an optical engineer, told me, that what's somehow looking like a starry sky , is nothing but a magnified image of the black layer of thin paint around the inner lens rim, which had been partly degraded by chemical reactions and UV-radiation,leaving those tiny white spots. He assured me, that even with very sophisticated instruments it would be hard to detect any measurable amount of fall-off in contrast, and more importantly, certainly none at all in practical photography.
     

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