Image files that can print 4x6 and 8x10

Discussion in 'Wedding and Event' started by mariah_smith, Jan 19, 2007.

  1. Does anyone have a good method for sizing images to fit regular sized
    enlargements? I do my cropping very carefully and usually pretty close. I
    size my prints to fit 4x6 dim's and then when my clients order 8x10's, I have
    to go back to Raw and start all over with sizing. I also lose the look of the
    image because it was originally shot as a 4x6.

    I'm showing them the 4x6 print and when they order the 8x10 it looks way
    different (if I have a tight frame). How do you handle this..make two or three
    sizes of the same file for their viewing, resize for an 8x10 and crop as needed
    hoping it doesn't ruin the integrity of the print...
  2. Do whatever you like with your RAW file. Then when you're done with that, save it as a
    full-sized, 16bit, AdobeRGB file in psd (Photoshop) format. Do all your retouching here.
    (dust, any additional color correction, etc.). Save all that in the master file. Then when the
    client places a print order, save a new file from the master in whatever format and color
    space required, and resize and/or crop ONLY THAT file for printing.

    As to different aspect ratios and what the client gets, all I can think of to say is that you
    need to explain that to them.

    Not sure I've answered much of your questions, but if I've missed important parts, please
    clarify for me.
  3. My work flow is basically;
    Completely edit files save as jpeg 12.
    I then take the original file and crop to size as needed and save as different file.
  4. I don't think I could function without Q image - it sets up the size you want filling up the page automatically. If you need 4 5X7 3 4X6, wallets and 2 8X10's (off all different pics) it Ques them up with the least amount of wasted paper. It has a crop feature to the size you want and you can move it to how you want it.
  5. Cropping can be very frustrating . . . cropping begins in the camera and keeping in mind what sizes your customer might want . . . I try to think of everything in terms of an 8x10 or 11x14 because these are two very common enlargement sizes and ones that will suffer the most cropping . . . 5x7 aren't as critical as not as much is lost, however again you have to be careful starting "in the camera" that you have enough head and foot area that the photo is balanced once cropped . .. creative cropping can be applied if you get yourself in a bind and crop too close in camera. . .but sometimes it makes it hard if there is a group of people . . .

    As far as proofing .. . I proof everything in a 4x5 format which will also look the same as an 8x10, 16x20 and as i mentioned above very similar to an 11x14. .. I do this because people have a hard time understanding aspect ratio so I want the to see exactly what they will be getting ...then if they order a 5x7(or wallets) they get more of the photo which most don't seem to mind as much as when they LOSE part of the picture. . .

    I edit in RAW . . . and save each edited file uncropped and as it comes out of the camera on size/dpi and save as a TIFF file. Then once the order is placed I open each file they order from and then do my cropping from there . . . if they want 4x5,8x10 or 16x20 I crop accordingly and upload that file for that size prints. .. if they want boy an 8x10 and 4x5 I use the same file to order from .. . if they want 5x7 and/or wallets . .. I crop the file to 5x7 and upload that file separately for that size. .. it is a little more work but then I know exactly what things are going to be and don't have any headaches trying to fix preset crops that i have saved. . .

    Most cameras produce images that are in the 4x6(8x12) aspect ratio . .. so you really should be thinking about that when cropping in the camera. .. it will save you a ton of time later and if you want a tight crop you can always eliminate unwanted parts but you can't easily add something that isn't there. . . and like I said as far as viewing they see everything as if it were an 8x10(16x20) and I've never had any issues with this . ..

    In the event you just can't crop to an 8x10 and have it look good offer your customer an 8x12 for the same price ... it is not a standard size when it comes to framing but I do know a few places sell 8x12 frames or they can always mat it larger going up to a 12x16 which is fairly common and really makes the pictures look nice.

    Hope this helps!
  6. As always, awesome and informative answers...thanks all! How frustrating, why don't they just make 8x12, etc a normal size...who came up with this 8x10 business anyway!??!?!?
  7. Save you "master" full resolution .psd file with ALL your edits, layers, etc..<p>
    When you want to output a jpeg for a client or to print, you just use the crop tool and
    specify the width & height (in inches or pixels) along with the DPI. Simple. <p>
    Alternately you can create an Action that simply downsizes the file to "fit" the size you
    want by using the "fit image" (I forget the exact menu name), where you specify the max
    number of pixels in each direction... So for example, I have an action that Fits the image to
    1800 x 1800 pixels, applies a bit of sharpening and converts to an 8-bit sRGB format,
    which I use for resizing to 4x6" proofing.<p>
    Yet another way is to use Photoshop's Image Processor, which can do basically what the
    Action I described does, but it doesn't apply sharpening and I find that it makes a bit of
    difference, which is why I use my Action. Either way it's all automated and I can just let it
    run on all the images for a wedding.
  8. You can also use photoshop picture package and make your own sizes by using edit layout.
    It didn't have an 8x10 or 4x6 choice so I made my own. One for an 8x10 and one for two
  9. >>As always, awesome and informative answers...thanks all! How frustrating, why don't they just make 8x12, etc a normal size...who came up with this 8x10 business anyway!??!?!?<<

    My guess is that most Pro Portrait photograhers did not shoot 35mm, instead opting for the Professional 120 formats. Using 645 type format gave perfect sizes for 4 x 5 and 8 x 10 prints with minimal cropping. The only 8 x 12 you would ever see came from amatuer 35 mm cameras. With the advent of digital, this has now changed as more Pros are switching to the convienence of Digital.
  10. Not to age myself, but I remember when small prints were 3.5x5. It wasn't until 1980ish(give or take a couple years) that the 4x6 became the standard small print. They were considered jumbo prints and a big marketing tool for the fancy new overnight prints you could get at the drug stores!

    To get back to the point, this is why you should always frame your subject then zoom out a hair. This way you won't be "cutting" anything off for the different print ratio's.
  11. William Michael

    William Michael Moderator Staff Member

    Ms Smith, Mr Eicher and J C,

    who came up with this 8x10 business anyway!??!?!?

    The people who made photographs along time ago.

    Originally film (firstly plates) was 10 x 8inches, (later) and 5 x 4 inches. 5 x 4 were cut, four, from a 10 x 8 sheet. The prints were made as `contacts`.

    Later technology allowed for the cut sheet film to be loaded in double dark slides, still used today.

    The film type and orientation to the emulsion side is `felt` by the notch code on the top edge.

    (We still use a 5 x 4 view camera in our studio mainly for B & W portraits)

    Many photographers can still `tell` a print from a large format camera; much like many cine photographers can `see` the difference on TV screen between film and Beta or Disc.

    But, I understand, prior to photography the printing industry was developing, and the Imperial System came up with sizes based on the Quad Sheet but the Legal Eagles and Parliament made different paper sizes, hence now we have `Legal` and `Letter`

    There is now universal paper sizes based on A0 and B0 hence A1 A2 A3 A4 A5 etc but this `decree` does not relieve the mish mash of many `photographic print sizes` we have available

    [J C ] I think we will find that the 6 x 4 inch photographic print comes for the `index card` size, a printing card size with its origins in the USA.

    Gee guess who just dated himself?


    Post script: IMO a good photographer can `crop` in *his eye through the viewfinder and see the print size relative to the format he is shooting, be it 35mm, 6x6, 645, 5x4 etc. There are viewing aids with some focussing screen that have print crop lines also.

    *(his / he = pronoun, singular, 2nd person, common gender, as I was taught) :)
  12. ww

    Thanks Pops!!! J/K I knew it had to go back further than 120 format. LOL
  13. William Michael

    William Michael Moderator Staff Member


    that`s ok son, there is still some use for the old timers!!!

    LOL :) hey i`m computer savvy too!

    all the best

  14. We save then @ 240dpi .. 8X12 -- leave it to the client to crop at their leisure
  15. We do most of our editing in Adobe Lightroom. If the image is complete there, without the need for photoshop it allows you to easily crop for any standard size while maintaining the original raw file. After adjustments have been made, you can resize the crop and go back to it's original size while keeping any color/WB adjustments.

    Also, because we offer the cd images to clients for reprinting, we include an instruction sheet with their cd. It explains the cropping issues with a sample image and crop guides to demonstrate how portions of the images could be lost when they buy reprints.

    It could be helpful to add something like this to your website and direct the clients to that page when you are trying to explain cropping for enlargements.

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