iMac Issues

Discussion in 'Digital Darkroom' started by bernard_korites|1, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. My daughter has an Imac. After a few months the hard drive failed. In spite of that, my wife wanted one for herself so we bought an iMac at the Apple store in Norwell, Massachusetts. What a mistake. We paid $1399 plus a fee for support and were told it was warranteed for one year. After 2 months the hard drive became corrupted. We brought it back to the store, assuming it would be fixed under warranty. What we found out was the Apple warranty covers only hardware, not software. I said to the salesman "but it's a failure of the hard drive that caused the software to become corrupted". The reply I got was "Apple CHOOSES to regard that as a software problem" which isn't covered by the warranty. We had two choices- either pony up $200 to have them reboot the system or purchase a $140 external hard drive that comes with a free installation. And this is for a 2 month old $1399 computer! I have a 10 year old IBM Aptiva that has never given me a problem and still works fine. I also have a 7 year old Dell that I bought used for $70 that still works fine. I just bought a new HP at Best Buy for $575 with Windows 7. It does everything my wife's iMac does at a fraction of the price. What I would like to know is how many others out there have had a similar experience with their new iMac's?
    Amount
     
  2. I've used Apples since 1986, and in all that time I've only had one problem (1988) with the power supply. I'm currently using an iMac which is more than a year old, and I've had no problems whatsoever. My wife has had an Apple laptop for the same length of time with no probems either.
    If you disagree with Apple's assessment, maybe take it to small claims court???
     
  3. Buy used from a reputable dealer like I do. I've had my 2004 G5 iMac since 2007 bought from PowerMax for $1200. The power supply crapped out last month and I replaced it with a used PS for $100 and installed it myself.
    Besides you really don't need all that horsepower anyway. Return it for an exchange or get your money back and buy used.
    Just know there are those that like to go beyond the call of loyalty to Apple because they seem to love their iMacs more than I would:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfPwAD_x2HI
    I have that model and don't have bad capacitors.
    Nobody's perfect, not even Apple.
     
  4. I haven't had the same experience with iMac but I just switched to Mac after years with Windows and I must say I am not surprised by your report. Why did I switch? Simple; I was bored with Windows and wanted a change of pace. I like the look and feel of Mac and thought it would be better for what I do with it (photos and video). And I do like the interface better than Windows, so I'm not sorry. Yet.

    But I see that in my future. Apple, you see, markets to three kinds of people: morons who can't find their way around a computer; old people who can't find their way around a computer (nor should be expected to); and "progressive" reactionaries who just hate Microsoft. They perpetuate the fiction that Apple is better for "artists," but I think anyone on this board who knows their way around a computer will tell you there is no difference between what you can do on a Mac and what you can do on a PC.

    If Macs and PCs were political philosophies, PCs would be libertarians and Macs would be the Supreme Soviet, telling you constantly "you don't need to access that and you don't need to know how to do that because we'll do it for you." And like any paternalistic state regime, they view Mac users as a captured base and have little interest in customer service. Hence the high fees for basic service issues, and the unreasonable exclusions from warranty that you experienced. And forget trying to get the "bar" to think outside the box or truly help with an issue.

    In antitrust law this behavior is well known. Mac users have a sunk investment and face high costs to switch to another platform, particularly if they have invested in third-party programs made for Mac. So Apple can treat us however it wants, essentially. Like the "cool white look" and "mod" feel of the Apple Store and of Apple products? You should; it's what you're paying for, after all.

    In short, Apple doesn't sell computers. It sells a lifestyle and an image. So that's what you've paid for and things like customer service and making sure that the product actually works like it's supposed to, are given lower priority than they are at a struggling PC maker who is competing with dozens of other PC makers for customers.

    Like I said, I'm not sorry yet. But I immediately found that the slogan "It just works" is a load of crap. I've had to force-quit more applications on my brand-new Macbook Pro than I ever did on my old PC. Every time I open GarageBand it tries to download a guitar lesson and fails, giving me an error message and saying to "try again later." Apple's "geniuses" said that they couldn't help with it and also said that I had used up my one free "issue" and that further inquiries or inquiries on other issues would be fee-based. Check back with me in 6 months and I suspect I will by then be wistfully recalling the days when I could fix the problem myself.
     
  5. "I've used Apples since 1986, and in all that time I've only had one problem (1988) with the power supply. I'm currently using an iMac which is more than a year old, and I've had no problems whatsoever. My wife has had an Apple laptop for the same length of time with no probems either."
    And I've used Windows PCs over that same time period without any major issues. At this point, I can't see any reason to switch to Apple. They did pique my interest with the ZFS file system, but that's been scrapped. So I'll buy a new Windows 7 PC this year. Apples run, after all, on Intel hardware now, so there isn't any reason to expect superior performance from an Apple.
     
  6. I have had only positive experiences with the many Macs I have had - both desktops and laptops. Your problem is not a Mac problem. If you purchased Apple Care when you bought the computer, it extends the warranty to three years. Software problems are not caused by hardware; there are many things that can corrupt files, but on Mac you'll have few if any. Perhaps you moved corrupted PC files over to your Mac; perhaps some with viruses. Macs don't get viruses either. Also, beware downloading third party applications; they can cause problems. You can fix the problem you describe yourself by doing a clean install. Just be sure to save the files you may want somewhere off of the computer's hard drive. This could be a CD or an external hard drive, which is most handy for storing photos. Apple Care will help you through the process. You can also check your manual or Google the process online. Get your Mac clean, and forget about those PCs.
     
  7. Here we bought in 2007 a used imac 20" intel core duo built in 2006. Recently it would not turn on. sometimes it would boot into a light blue screen. Iused the original mac install discs 1 and 2 and now all is well; the reinstall even left all data; CS2; and illustrator all intact. Failures sometimes are not all total failures; have a mac guru look at your unit
     
  8. "Macs don't get viruses either"​
    Funny, I made quite a living cleaning virus from macs. But that was when they were popular.
    The only reason there is no abundance of virus on a mac, is because it is not convenient to do so yet . Think about it, how many users have installed AV software? The moment one comes along it will spread faster than swine flu.
    "Apple, you see, markets to three kinds of people: morons who can't find their way around a computer; old people who can't find their way around a computer (nor should be expected to); and "progressive" reactionaries who just hate Microsoft"​
    You missed one. Me. I use what's in front of me. I look for something to run what ever software I need, that's it. I've had one since a Mac+, but I am old enough to go back to CP/M and know that Steve was not the first to use a mouse.
    But the real answer to this thread is hardware fails and software breaks - period. That is life with computers.
     
  9. I've had and heavily used my iMac since summer of 2007 - never a problem. I like it so much better than the PCs at work.
     
  10. Bernard,
    While I understand your frustration, Apple did not corrupt your hard drive, you did by downloading a corrupted file(obviously not on purpose but still it was you or someone in your family). If you bought a car and put the wrong kind of gas in it, thus ruining the engine, would that be the manufacturers fault, would you expect that to be covered under warranty, after all it is the engine that failed. Regardless a clean install should do the trick and not cost you anything, just move your important stuff to your external hard drive. I have been using macs for 15+ years and really have never had a problem(my first was a g3 35O if that tells you anything) it still works just fine but has been replaced by a faster imac. We also have a ibook. I use PC's at work and while I am sure they are fully capable of doing anything a Mac will do, it just seems like it always takes a little longer or there are more hoops to jump through. My PC locks up all the time, my Macs very rarely(usually because I have tried to run something I don't have the software for.) Anyway good luck with your clean install and I hope things clear up for you.
     
  11. Software problems are not caused by hardware.​
    That's not necessarily true. This troubleshooting thread:
    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2303262&tstart=30
    I conducted on my own G5 iMac suggests hardware devices and components can affect the OS in this instance by voltage/current fluctuation which can corrupt or flip on switches within the system firmware, NVRAM or PRAM or on external devices that affect energy saving routines and other functions controlled by the system's software.
    I imagine this also happens on Window's except you'ld probably need an advanced IT tech guy with a voltage meter to do some serious investigating.
    As for the Mac being better for graphics this thread:
    http://lists.apple.com/archives/colorsync-users/2005/Feb/msg00062.html
    gives the reason why. It's nice that you can load two calibration curves and two profiles to run two displays on one video card chip. I can do it on my G5 iMac. I even hacked the opened firmware with "Spanner Doctor" so my iMac will run in "Extended Desktop" on my external Dell 2209WA.
    Macs have a wonderful support community as they've always had since the first Macs were produced in 1984.
     
  12. You said on the 2nd iMac you bought that "..the hard drive became corrupted." If it had failed, Apple should have and would have fixed it, but "corrupted" means you installed something/software (either on purpose or by accident) that "corrupted" the hard drive, and no, Apple won't cover that--nor will any computer company that I know of.
    I've been using Macs since 1987, with a recent and brief foray into the PC world. During that time, I have had very, very few problems with my Macs; a power supply for my Macbook (that was 4 years old) and another Macbook that was blasted by a power surge (lightening) and Apple fixed it for us for free under warranty.
    Compare that to our supposedly "business class" Toshiba Tecra that worked great for a year and then spent 9 months trying to get fixed.....never again Toshiba! We also had a custom built PC desktop from CyberPower that was one of the best computers we've ever had--we had it for three years and never had a single problem.
    We recently returned to the Mac world with a 24" iMac and 13" Macbook Pro, and we couldn't be happier!
     
  13. If it's truly a software problem, have tried booting from your install disk that should have come with your computer, open Disk Utility and try a disk repair. If it is too corrupted, then you can re-format and re-install. Have you tried that?
     
  14. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    "corrupted" means you installed something/software (either on purpose or by accident) that "corrupted" the hard drive​
    Sorry, but that's not true. Hardware malfunctions can cause corrupted hard drives, especially in the disk controller. Bad sectors and bad controller RAM can also cause corrupted hard drives. A disk head crash can cause corruption. This isn't a big secret, you can find a lot of documentation about it on the web. Bad software can also cause data corruption, as you said, but so can all sorts of other things.
     
  15. Being that the computer in question was brought back to the apple store, and it was deemed to be a software issue, doesn't that rule out hardware malfunctions. Now if the OP can prove that is was a hardware malfunction that caused this, then I think he has a legit gripe.
     
  16. When I brought it back to the store, assuming it was a hardware problem since I have never heard of a 2 month old computer failing due to data corruption, I was told by the sales manager, "Apple CHOOSES too regard this as a software problem which is not covered by the warranty. " They wanted $200 to reinstall the system software or else I could buy a $140 backup drive. Now what kind of a reputable company would do such a thing. Why not just reload the software. It only take a minute or two of "Genius Bar" labor.
     
  17. I think the store has given you crummy service and you should push
    them to do better. If they refuse, buy the external drive - you need
    backups anyhow.

    Some stuff does Indeed run faster on a Mac. OS X has superior Unix
    virtual memory management, it thrashes less I find. win7 is catching
    up, but I still prefer the feel of the Mac. mac was also first to offload
    graphics compute to the GPU allowing faster Photoshop effects like
    previewing a filter full screen. Windows has this now too, but it was a
    Mac exclusive for quite a while.

    Much as I love to hate Windows, Win7 seems pretty decent and Mac
    not quite worth the price premium.
     
  18. I have read of new imacs that the screen turns yellow, some will not boot, and some are broken on opening a new box.
     
  19. I have been using my iMac since 1832. It's been running almost 180 years without a single crash. I decided recently to switch to a PC, but it crashed at the store, before I even got there. The PC could sense that I was going to buy it, and it preemptively crashed just to spite me.
    Does anybody seriously believe these stories? They're just computers. They're a little different, but mostly quality is quality. I've had Apple computers that were slow and buggy, and Apple computers that are fast and reliable. Similarly, I've had PC's that were slow and buggy, and PC's that were fast and reliable. My current PC is somewhere in the realm of "fast and super stable", except that I've had trouble with my LAN connection since last summer, when my house was struck by lightning. My modem and router were both fried, and now my on-board LAN adapter needs resetting every once in a while. It may or may not be a related issue. Other than that, it's 100% rock-solid.
    What matters here is quality. There are high quality motherboards, and cheap crappy ones. The same goes for hard drives, RAM, video cards, sound cards, etc. Even a top quality computer component can fail after just a few years of use. The cheap ones tend to fail more frequently, but even that is a statistical phenomenon.
    Don't be so blinded as to think that your brand is better than the other brand because of your isolated experience. The collective experience proves that performance and reliability issues on both platforms are comparable. However, the premium for one of these systems is inarguably higher than the other (if you don't already understand that, you're never going to learn).
     
  20. In the past ten years I've owned a G4 Gooseneck iMac, G3 iBook, Intel MacPro, and an HP PC (middle of the line in terms of performance.) Far and away all of the Macs left the PC in the dust. The PC was supposed to have much better stats than my iMac (2.9 gig processor and 4 gb ram with an upgraded 1gb video card vs. 800mhz processor and 768mb of ram with on board graphics) yet the PC didn't hold a candle to the iMac in terms of Photoshop performance and RELIABILITY. I cannot say enough about the reliability of every Mac that I've ever owned. My iMac especially has been rock solid. I keep it on all the time and I can count on one hand how many times it's crashed (twice). The PC however was a constant hassle and crashed routinely. I agree however, that Mac support is VERY lacking. Something that is very disheartening given the high price tags on their machines. Overall though, I will only buy Mac as long as Macs are still being made. PC's are dead to me.
     
  21. I bought a Macbook about a year and a half ago. After less than a year, the hard drive died. It started making noises and failed to boot. I took it to Apple and they told me they would replace the hard drive, but that they had to keep my old hard drive. Since I needed the computer, and would have to take it to somewhere else to try and do the data recovery, and, I had no interest in handing over an old hard drive with recoverable financial data on it. I went to another generic computer mega store and purchased a new hard drive and replaced it myself at my expense. I have a friend who also had the same experience with his hard drive on a similar vintage computer. He also had to replace the disc drive after a little over a year.
     
  22. I will second Brian M's post. I couldn't agree more and I've had similar experiences. My Mac Pro crashed repeatedly and finally required a total reinstall from Time Machine, coincidentally at the same time the video card failed and had to be replaced.
    My experience at the Apple Store (240 mile round trip) was one of dealing with customer service people holding PhDs in Arrogance. I wound up fixing my Mac Pro myself, in spite of having purchased three years of Apple Care.
    As for people who suggest that third party software is the problem, you've drank too much Apple Coolaid. In the photographic/graphics business it is impossible NOT to install third party software if you're going to use a serious imaging editing program or printer. It is ridiculous to even suggest that only Apple software be used on a Mac.
    And to this day neither I, nor Apple service has been able to solve printer driver problems on the Mac side of things. Fortunately, I am using VM Fusion to use Windows XP on the Mac and transfering my files to Windows XP, printing from XP.
    The introduction of the iPad, or imaxiPad as some have already called it, highlights Apple....a product that can't multitask, has no significant storage capacity, no significant horsepower, nothing more than an iPod Touch with a 10" XGA display, won't fit in a pocket or purse....but it will look great at Starbucks.
     
  23. Bernard,
    Given your last response, I am in agreement with Mike Mason, I think the store has given you crummy service. I would contact Apple directly and give them the store location and a description of all that has occurred. If they come back with the same response the store gave you I would be very disappointed in them indeed.
     
  24. bms

    bms

    First, Bernard, I am sorry for all the trouble..... and service seemed to have below par.
    Second: Jeez, a lot of Apple hater and Window haters. Too much Koolaid on both sides. The only problem I ever had with Apple since the LCII was my MacBookPro overheating. Fixed, within a week, by sending in my computer, free of charge. Maybe I am lucky.
    My advice: back up your data on an external hard drive regardless what you use. Time Machine makes that easy, but you can do it anyway you want. If its broken drive, it obliviously needs ot be replaced, but maybe just a reinstall would have done it? Data of course would be harder to retrieve if you did not back it up.
    But I see that in my future. Apple, you see, markets to three kinds of people: morons who can't find their way around a computer; old people who can't find their way around a computer (nor should be expected to); and "progressive" reactionaries who just hate Microsoft.​
    Brian, so which category are you ? :) Personally, I like Mac but use both Mac and Windows and from some time had Windows XP installed on my iMac but never used it.
     
  25. All computers are prone to hardware/software problems, whether they're a Apple, or IBM compatibles. Macs CAN get viruses http://antivirus.about.com/od/macintoshresource/Macintosh_Viruses_and_Mac_Virus_Resources.htm Apple's don't get many viruses now, but as their market share increases, so does incentive for malware writers to make viruses for them.
    As for the support issues you're having, I'd encourage you to write to a higher-up in the company. If this provides no satisfactory result, you'll either have to dance to their tune, or fix it yourself. I strongly encourage performing simple repairs yourself, so you never have to rely on others to fix your computers. It's a lot easier than it may seem at first, and the web is loaded with forums full of troubleshooting information for every conceivable computer issue.
    For starters, i'd try to reinstall the OS yourself, if that doesn't work, then you may begin to suspect hardware failure.
     
  26. To have two different machines fail in such a short period of time suggests that there may be something else operating here.
    1. Is your electrical supply clean and stable? Do you have a cheap surge protector attached to the computer?
    2. Are you doing hard turn offs with the power button or leaving it on or soft turn offs?
    3. If is only software, you should be able to re-install the operating system. If it is hardware failure, Apple will replace the drive for I think up to one year. I would guess that the Apple store believes you are doing something to corrupt the system (which is sort of hard to do unless you are installing lots of strange stuff or doing hard power downs. Can you say what sort of symptoms you had and why you believe it was a hard drive failure?
     
  27. I think your problem is a simple one. You need to reformat the Hard drive. But to be charged $200 is way too much. You can do it yourself but if you are not confident enough, I suggest that there are many kids around that are savvy with computers & will help you out for a small fee. But if your machine still running then may I suggest that you copy your important files into a disk or disks. So when you reformat the HD you start fresh.
    But to verify that you HD is not faulty & it's mainly a s/w issue, do you hear the HD making a clicking noise? if so then you might a hardware problem.
     
  28. A power glitch before Thanksgiving *injured* many on my computers in one building. There are surge protectors in the two breaker boxes; and surge boxes on the computers; phone lines; cable modems /cable too. Several old CRTS's on PC's that are 10 years old died; one beast has a pincushion look; another old guy lost a on color gun. A HDA on one of our main scanner's PC got hard too boot; it developed a rash of SMART code (05) Reallocated Sector Count; this unit would not boot after 1 week. I placed the HDA on as a slave and recovered most all data. An engineering firm a block away lost several PC's. Many computers here that had no issues; no events with SMART code (05) Reallocated Sector Counts; have since the surge now read many reallocate sectors; some a mess. Thus the computers are being given new HDA's before they croak. The Imac 20" unit that I mentioned up the thread got weird after the surge too. It still has the same HDA; I just reinstalled the OS X with the two discs; it takes about 1 hour; maybe more if one has alot of stuff; ours is a clean box with little stuff.
    The same type of HDA is used in a Mac or a PC. A better computer builder like say IBM or Apple buys the HDA's often with a slightly better spec; sometimes they add hooks for testing; or have software preloaded too. They can/might have a tighter spec on the number of reallocated sectors; flagged bad areas; etc. A HDA in a better computer like IBM or Apple is equal or better than a store bought new HDA; you as a buyer will never really know too.
    One data point of an Imac having a HDA issue after 2 months is abit rare. In super rare cases a bad group of HDA's gets used; there was an issue with one HDA vendors drive back when HDA's were 1.6 to 2 gigs.
    With a bad/poor HDA; on a new computer; just installing another HDA and adding the OS again works. Here with our imac 20" I just used the same HDA; spent 1 hour with the new OS install and all now seems ok
    I doubt you 2 month old imac went south by just downloading a file; our FTP box here runs nude on the nasty side of the router and has downloaded gobs of stuffcrap and still works; an imac sees nil compared to this
    There may be nothing wrong with your box too; just a password; it is in a dumb mode
     
  29. An old photoshop dream machine here that cost over 3 grand seems un-phased by the power glitch/surge we had; it still is used on the UPS shipping table to print labels. It went from *total* dream machine to printing labels today. It was born in 1994; a 75 Mhz Pentium with win3.11 and 8 megs of ram. Bumping it up to 72 megs cost over a grand. It has 2 ISA slots and 1 PCI slot. Its 850 Meg HDA is left on all the time; its latest win98se was added 6 years ago. The last time I had virus software on it was via several floppies; maybe about 1998? The plan is to move the OS to a IDE/compact flash card before the HDA dies. The CPU draws 8 watts. One ISA slot has this Y2K adapter so dates are correct; what it my Y2K ISA card dies? :)
     
  30. Kelly, you totally crack me up. I'm not sure one thing you said had anything to do with any of this, but if I need a former super-computer re-programed to make peanut butter sandwiches, I'll definately give you a call :)
    It seems a mac/pc dispute is totally off-topic and of no use to the OP. Just what strategy can he use to get his computer fixed. He can start with doing a hardware check, he can find out how to do that on the apple site support area. there are things that Apple has always tried to get it's customers to do when they present with a software glitch.
    A suggestion might be to go back in, get another so called "genius" and have them look at it. They don't keep track of what the other guy is doing and so you may get a fresh read. Ask them if they've done a complete hardware check, and why they deem it a "software glitch". Don't take the one guy's answer as the final answer.
    My own experience with them here in So CAl is I had an ipod go bad, first couple of times they told me I dropped it and its not covered. Finally, I was in there onw time and talking about another problem with a really nice kid, and I mentioned the ipod and said let him take a look, he did and gave me a new one on the spot. What i'm saying that persistence seems to pay with those guys so don't give up. It sux when they aren't responsive as they should be. But keep trying.
     
  31. I think your problem is a simple one. You need to reformat the Hard drive. But to be charged $200 is way too much .
    That is the same price quote I received from an Apple store when they mis-diagnosed the problem. I said No, took my machine home and ran Time Machine. Problem solved...stupid me for not doing it before I drove 240 miles ...twice....to the Apple Store. The Apple Store staff personnel seem to be about one notch better trained than the Best Buy types. They're hired, go through the indoctrination process and then get pushed out on the floor or behind a counter.
     
  32. I have used apple computers since 1996 and have had few problems, but I have had problems with 3 different Apple monitors of which I will never purchase one again, so maybe because the imac (I had owned one back in 2000) is an all in one computer with a lot more parts crammed in, it may be prone to having more issues when something goes wrong. The macs I own now are a MacPro 8 core, G4 powerbook, and dual G5 Powermac and none have given me problems. Yes Apple is expensive. back in the 90s and early 2000s they spent a lot of time/money trying to justify their means but now that's it's 2010 I don't think they have much merit to cost. Both PC's and today's Mac's use the exact same parts (Intel.) A friend of mine showed me how I could order all of the exact same parts in their highest end MacPro off of tigerdirect.com and build a pc with even more ram for far less what the Apple cost. Because they are basically the same machines now, just different operating systems, I've done enough searching to find out how to install OS 10 on a built to order pc. In fact that's just what I plan to do in a few months. Apple will not get another dime off of me. And I've done some Windows 7 testing and honestly being a mac user, I was impressed. It was solid. Looks like OS is catching up and I'm deciding if I should even continue to use a mac.
     
  33. Brian, so which category are you ? :)
    Ha! Benjamin, that's a fair question and one I suppose I walked right into with my post. Actually, I don't believe I am someone to whom Apple markets. I tend to be somewhat contemptuous (if you couldn't tell from my post) of slick marketing campaigns and appearance-heavy products. I find myself almost rooting for the "PC" guy in the ads to give the "Mac" guy the back of his hand one of these days to wipe the smarmy smirk off his face. :) (At the very least, I would not even engage in a conversation with the Mac guy but would love to take the PC guy out for a couple of beers.) As I mentioned, I was just bored with Windows after using it for the last 25 years (had a Mac LC in college but went on the Windows train starting with my first real job). I use a Windows machine every day at work and found myself not really looking forward to getting back on the same kind of machine at night. So I switched to have a different experience that I could consider more recreational. Like I said, I do like the interface, though I don't think it's any more functionally useful than a PC's interface. I suppose I was influenced most by friends' recommendations, but that's about it.
     
  34. Steven:
    "1. To have two different machines fail in such a short period of time suggests that there may be something else operating here. 1. Is your electrical supply clean and stable? "
    My daughter lives in a different house so electrical supply is not the problem.
    "2. Are you doing hard turn offs with the power button or leaving it on or soft turn offs?"
    It always has soft landings.
    3. If is only software, you should be able to re-install the operating system. If it is hardware failure, Apple will replace the drive for I think up to one year."
    The explanation I got from the Apple store was, it is the nature of hard drives to develop bad sectors. Occassionally, they said, this leads to corruption of the operating system. Now this is what gets my dander up, I was told, and this is a quote, "APPLE CHOOSES TO REGARD THAT AS A SOFTWARE PROBLEM WHICH IS NOT COVERED BY WARRANTY."
    As I mentioned, my daughters hard drive crashed, I had a Mac IIcx years ago that crashed repeately, now my wife's hard drive crashed. I'm not exactly a computer neophyte. I started writing software in graduate school back in the 1960's. I've written several books on applied math and programming. I've spent decades staring at computer screens and pecking away at keyboards. In the 1970's I bought four of the original Apple I's to set up a computer lab at a university where I was teaching. Then over the years I have owned and/or used mainframes, minis, Apple II's, IBMpc's, Compaqu's, Zeniths, and Hewlett Packards, Dell's plus one totally awful Apple IIcx. I've come to be very suspicious of Apple's. I don't know what the problem is but I think it might be their software, which supposedly does everything, is so complex it steps on itself and this leads to corrupted hard drives. Either that or the heat buildup inside the stylish but tight packaging leads to electronic failures. I'm not sure what it is, all I can say is these machines seem to me to be extremely fragile. By comparison, Pc just seem to go on and on.
    Given that they cost more that double an HP or Sony or any other Windows 7 machine, which is every bit as good as an iMac (I know for sure that's the case since I have a new iMAC and a new HP/Windows 7 in my house running off the same router), you would think Apple would bend over backwards to give good customer support instead of unilaterally, choosing to regard hard drive problems as software issues.
    Needless to say, I will never buy another iMac
     
  35. bernard:
    I have owned macs since the mid '80 from boxes to laptops. All of them have received pretty heavy daily use. Have had to replace a power supply and one mother board (fried by my local utility company). I even had an iMac at the end of a 3 year Apple Care warranty period die. Apple replaced it with a brand new iMac with a new 3 year warranty for free. I don't ever recall a hard drive failing, but I do regular maintenance with disk utility. Your story makes me think something else is going on, but not sure what.
    Owned PC's as well and have had many blue screens of death episodes.
    For both, have traveled the world with my laptops either Mac or PC.
    Not sure there really is a difference in my experience on stability.
    Anyway, good luck.
     
  36. Bernard, i think mac just doesn't like you. did you direct bad vibes towards it from the time you opened the box?
     
  37. I even had an iMac at the end of a 3 year Apple Care warranty period die. Apple replaced it with a brand new iMac with a new 3 year warranty for free.​
    Assuming your warranty had just ended (which is how I read your post), I can with almost 100% certainty promise you that Apple would not do this for you today.
     
  38. Kostya-
    I don't know, maybe it was the store I went to, the sales guy in the tweed skirt, the sales woman with the orange and blue mohawk, or the one with the studs, rings and safety pins stuck in lips, ears and eyebrows. Ok Apple, I get it, you want us to think you're hip and counterculture and oh so mod and stylish. OK, I can handle that, but please don't sell us crappy disfunctional computers at a rediculous price then screw us on the warranty when something goes wrong.
     
  39. I have read of new imacs that the screen turns yellow, some will not boot, and some are broken on opening a new box.
    It's not "some" Randal. It was 52% of the new iMac's shipped were having flickering problems. Over 2.5 million people have googled "imac 27 problem". That's sad for a new product, that is low in demand, from a small company. How does a company deliver a product and get a 52% failure rate?
    This thread alone has 3900 replies and 550,000 views since Oct 27, 2009 over the 27" iMac.

    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2212682&tstart=0
    Sadness. I used to use Mac and up until recently used to recommend them all the time. I haven't had one single friend get through Snow Leopard without compromising something. I have two friends now that are dual booting with Windows 7 and a third asking me how. All this just upsets me because we are bounced between two massive corporations. I just don't get how there is only two choices when computers are everything to everyone now. I love Ubuntu and the whole idea of "for the community" and open source.
     
  40. @ Garrison
    I wonder what computer world you live in. Everyone I know that moved to Snow Leopard, including myself has had zero problems. Plus where did you get your 52% figure on flickering. That's news. Can you provide a link to that stat?
     
  41. I've considered buying an Apple on several occasions, but the 'all-in-one' designs put me off. I like to open the case myself when it's time to add RAM or an additional HD. That wouldn't be quite so bad if they didn't charge outrageous prices for upgrades. But they do.
    So the only Mac that I'd really consider is the Mac Pro, which is a server-class machine. It looks as if I'm not in their target market, either. Apple won't even let the end user change the battery on an iPod. Sheesh!
     
  42. Your Apple Store sounds atypical. Maybe because you're in the East. (I though I'd add another item to argue about since the Mac-PC thing has already been beaten to death). I got my first Mac in April of 1984, switched to PC's a few years later, and then back about two years ago. I like Mac's, my wife's PC seems clunky in comparison, but... to the point.
    Bernard sounds angry, perhaps justifiably. My local Apple Store has been great, I have seen them being incredibly patient with an elderly person (not much older than me) who was really struggling. They have cheerfully answered lots of questions for me. If Bernard is as knowledgeable as he says, he should have been able to fix his own problem, and if he has no backups, he's silly (I "choose" not to use the word "foolish"). All hardware fails, hard drives fail unpredictably. Software develops glitches. The more knowledgeable one is the more likely one can fix things themselves but at some point, most of us need help. The store might have been more helpful, perhaps Bernard came in loaded for bear and they reacted, not appropriate but even the creatures who work in Apple stores are people. We do not know, we were not there.
    Good luck.
    Eric
     
  43. @ Garrison
    I wonder what computer world you live in. Everyone I know that moved to Snow Leopard, including myself has had zero problems. Plus where did you get your 52% figure on flickering. That's news. Can you provide a link to that stat?​
    You seriously had zero problems with Snow Leopard? Wow. Logically, I feel it's unreasonable to anticipate that every app/utility that we use will survive a major OS upgrade. And SL was a major upgrade. And it was released earlier than expected. Many were caught with their pants down half way through driver updates. But maybe you were one of the lucky ones? Maybe you were wise and held off for a few months and didn't have the growing pains of the early adopters like some of my friends that stood in line on day-one did? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt :). You should have been hanging around here, or the mac support forums, when it was released. There was driver support issues everywhere and the sage advice was to hold off installing for a few months until everyone caught up and the wrinkles were ironed out. The conclusion was that Mac released it weeks early and developers weren't ready. But don't take my word for it, plenty in the mac forums to fill your boots.
    I spent 45 min trying to provide you with a link to that 52% stat. Sorry, I can't, I tried, but I must move on with my day. It was way back in late Noveeber when they were still shipping them and shipping them with the known problems. Judging from customers reactions, that thread with 4K entries, AND the halt in shipping it caused by December, I don't doubt the 52% figure. 15%, 25%, 75%, I could care less, they've already lost me. I used to personally prefer the options that came with a Windows machine and can geek out, but for years I would recommend Mac/Apple to friends that can't do their own maintenance and just need to to turn a machine on for a couple years. It's come back to bite me too. Like when CS4 was released in 32 bit, a couple Mac friends slapped me.
    Off topic, this week, a friend of mine and I have to figure out how to install new 7200 rpm 2.5 samsung drives into his two mbp's, install SL and bootcamp and then Windows 7 64 bit. A new hdd and an oem copy of W7, it's a $200 upgrade that many out there in the forums doing now. I'm looking forward to the operations and learning. The best of both worlds he anticipates. His GF and he will do all their entertainment and "lifestyle" stuff on the Mac and boot into W7 to run CS4 and get busy. I'm doing it right now with Ubuntu and Windows 7. I consider Ubuntu the best OS out there. Their philosophy sits well with me. It's amazing that when it comes to computers, how many get sentimentally attached like their pick up truck or camera. "Ford sucks, Chevy rules!" or "Nikon is better than Canon". Yep, many consumers are just successful products of marketing. Not for me, I just want to get in and drive without being told which gas station I must fill up at, or get a "sorry" when I want to upgrade the stereo. Yellow pill or the blue pill? Neither, thanks.
     
  44. Seriously, Garrison, I haven't had a glitch. I got a refurbed laptop with Leopard loaded, upgraded to Snow Leopard and everything just worked fine. Office, Lightroom, CS3, Aperture (don't ask me how I ended up with both those) everything. I did wait a couple of months as I usually do with any OS including all the Windows variants.
     
  45. I've never been a Mac owner, but I can say that all hard drives do get corrupted over time. It's rather unusual for a drive to become corrupted in two months time. The reasons for the corruption could stem from hardware issues, software issues or lack of maintenance (i.e. defragging). Having worked with Windows, Linux, and (believe it or not) OS/2 Warp, I can say that best way to solve the issue of a corrupted drive is to reformat and/or reinstall the operating system.
    Some advice:
    1. It's always best to partition your hard drive: have one partition set for the operating system, the other your files. In the event of an OS partition failure, you can always reformat & reinstall the OS on that partition without loosing your data.
    2. Always back-up your data to multiple external drives: Every Mac comes with time machine so there's no excuse. If you're running a PC, I recommend SyncBack Pro (http://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/sbpro.html); it's the most flexible backup software solution I've ever used. Don't rely on online backup services, you'll be sorry in the long run.
    3. Defrag your hard drives on a regular basis. The more fragmented your files are, the the higher the risk of file corruption.
    4. Don't run to the Genius Bar at the Apple store; you'll find no geniuses there. Many common problems can be solved on your own with the aid of a good manual and some patience.
    5. OS X is not immune to malware. The number of threats affecting OS X are negligible at best, but don't count on it staying that way. OS X has proven to be just as vulunerable as Windows, and in some cases, less secure. As Apple's market share increases, so will the threats of virus, trojans, etc.
    6. OS X is no better than Windows, Windows is no better than OS X. Linux is worse than both. They all stink.
     
  46. Disagree with 1., 3. according to what an Apple engineer wrote online about SATA drives and OS X and yes I read manuals and try to do it myself most of the time which is why I agree with 4. I also agree with 2.
    In my 12 years using three Macs and surfing the web for about 8 of those 12, I haven't found any evidence to number 5.
    Don't get your point with 6. Nothing works? You sound pretty jaded. You should get a Mac. It has given me confidence to answer you with such conviction.
     

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