I'm thinking of upgrading to another modern Nikon body...

<p>I've been having some problems with my Nikon N6006's, and might finally replace them for serious use. The infamous film door latch recently broke on one. Also, and especially in pressure situations when reloading film, I seem to often have some trouble getting the film leader placed just right so that it will advance properly. It doesn't happen that often in decent light, but in dark concert settings, it's happened too frequently. My only other bodies are older F series, and I have no experience with any other modern Nikon bodies besides the N6006. I was especially wondering if there might be a more positive film loading mechanism in any of the following: the N8008s, N90s, F100?</p>

<p>Those are the bodies I've narrowed it down to because I think they all are capable of center-weighted metering with AI/AIS lenses, and also, for reasons of affordability. I'm also a bit intrigued with the F4's ability to matrix meter with these lenses, but at the same time, a bit put off by its weight as an all day camera, especially as I'm used to the N6006, which only weighs just a bit more than half of what an F4 seems to weigh, and occasionally I'll be carrying two bodies. I'm taking it for granted that they all have more durable film door latch mechanisms, but if any of them differ markedly in this respect, I'd love to know about that, too.</p>

<p>Also, the F4 was advertised as having a very well damped shutter, and if memory serves, I think Nikon may have made claims about one or two of the other bodies I mentioned as having shutter advancements. Does any of that really make a difference <em>in the pictures</em>? I'm doing mainly photojournalism type work with these cameras, and though it might be a bit noisy, the N6006 seems to have not had a problem in delivering sharp pictures. But I can't help wondering if any of the others have better designed shutter mechanisms that might make for better real-world picture takers?</p>

<p>Ergonomics seem to be a strong point in my N6006's; they seem to fit my medium/large hands almost perfectly. I've heard good things in this regard about the ones I've narrowed it down to, as well, especially the F100, but the N90s looks a bit chunky. Or am I nit picking? I've also heard that the N90s' finish material seems to peel off on the back.</p>

<p>The N6006 seems to be know for its noisiness, but this has only very occasionally seemed to have been a problem in public situations. I guess it would be nice to have a quieter machine, so this might be a factor, too. In this regard, during my information gathering about the other bodies mentioned, I came across a post by someone who was so bothered by the F100's shutter noise that he returned the unit. Is that really true about the F100?</p>

<p>Honestly, when I go through all these various factors- and more that I haven't stated- I'm tempted just to buy another N6006, as I like the camera:)! Especially if you tell me that the film take-up mechanisms are not much improved, and if there was a better fix for the infamous film door latch. I did have my original N6006 fixed for this around 2004, and the repairman told me that if I were to consciously depress the release latch when closing the film door, that this would help greatly. This seems to have been true, because that body is still going strong with no further problem, but it would be nice to not have to constantly be aware of this. And the occasional problem with film loading is at least as big a problem.</p>

<p>If these problem areas might be much better addressed by another Nikon body, maybe it is time for me to upgrade, and I'd appreciate any experienced suggestions and/or insights into this decision that you may have. I'm most interested in hearing from people with real world experience with these various models, as I've read a fair amount about the various spec's, etc. Thanks.</p>

<p>Hi Jeff, as a self proclaimed Nikon junkie....My first choice that immediately comes to mind is the F100 followed by the N90s. You simply cannot go wrong with the 100. IMHO there just isn't anything not to like. Essentially an F5 without 8fps. Awsome matrix metering, a full metal body (except the back) Extremely fast autofocus, ability to meter with your AI lenses. No "fluff" pre programmed settings. Very intuitive and best of all...plentiful and very decent prices. The N90s will do virtually everything the 100 does but at less than 100 bucks. I have heard of the surface peeling on the N90 as well. If you really want to stick with the vintage of what you are using, the 8008 is garage sale cheap at KEH.com....But in my opinion the focus speed of the 100 compared to what you are using makes the decision easier. I personally think the F4 is a great looking camera, tough as nails and I like the fact that there are no menus to deal with, it's biggest downfall from what I have heard is the focus speed is slow. But on the other hand, I have also read that with the new modern "S" Nikkor lenses that suddenly that F4 focuses rather quickly! Anyway, I still feel that for the money the F100 is the only way to go. Mine lives happily in my bag with my D90. I wish you well!<br>

Mark</p>

<p>I'll second the F100 recommendation. There's nothing to not like about it; it's simply a beautiful camera. It's the perfect size with excellent proportions, perfect weight, and outstanding performance. Plus it's rugged and weather-sealed. Along with my 1v, it's one of my most used film cameras (one of my most used cameras, <em>period!</em>) and frequently rides in my bag with my 7D. I like it well enough to maintain a small Nikon AF system alongside my EOS gear. The N90s is also a very nice camera, definitely worth looking into.</p>

The F100 isn't any louder than other SLRs, and the film loading and unloading is easy and fast. But I can't give you

much in the way of comparison with the others - just that the 100 is excellent. Handling with MF lenses is good, I still

prefer a manual camera with manual lenses but the F100 does an excellent job with the metering and the focus

indicator.

<p>F100 F100 F100! Can't say it enough times. It is Nikon's finest AF SLR in my opinion. I used the N90s many times and while it is a superb camera, the F100 just flattens it in comparison. When I hold the F100 in my hand, I wonder why I ever use my F3HP. The only problem with manual lenses on the F100 is you don't get any aperture readout in the viewfinder, whereas I get that on my D700 with manual lenses.</p>

<p>F100 is my favorite followed very closely by the F4s. If you like the ergonomics of the N6006 you may not like the N90s. It had a slightly shallower right hand grip than the N6006 that made it uncomfortable for me. As for the weight of the F4s, I don't notice it weighing much more than the F100 (with grip for F4s or without grip compared to F4).</p>

 

<p>Hey Guys,</p>

<p>Thanks very much! I'm definitely leaning towards the F100 as it seems a unanimous choice. The thing that still bugs me though, is the fact that I seldom use autofocus. I know this is going to sound strange, and I guess that part of the reason is that the N6006 has one of the earlier simple autofocus systems where the sensor is dead center. It sounds like with the F100, the wider af system must be very handy for you, so it's definitely something for me to consider. However, most of my lenses are not af, and I get a lot of use out of them, and can't afford newer right now.</p>

<p>So, given that, perhaps I should modify my search? I think I might rule out the N90s for its few minor negatives , and might now narrow down the possible universe of choices to the F100, N8008s, and maybe the F4 because of its durability and especially, matrix metering with my older lenses. .</p>

<p>Although I've never even handled one, the N8008s has always had a certain appeal for me. And I've read that it is a great camera with manual focus lenses because of its great viewfinder, good ergonomics, and is quite light. But I don't know if it would be any more durable than the N6006, and/or whether the film loading would be any more positive when I'm in a rush... Does anyone have any experience in these areas with this model? Also, would the F100's viewfinder be as good as the N8008s'.</p>

<p>The F4 is very appealing, but I'm just not sure if I'd be comfortable carrying it very much, although I appreciate Nick's thoughts, and have heard others say that its weight is really not a problem for them either. Any further opinions about this? Perhaps the biggest plus for me when thinking about this model, is that in concerts with fast changing lighting, the ability to matrix meter with my older lenses might make the difference (or would the F100's metering be just as good in these situations?). For my kind of shooting I don't think I'd need what the <em>F4s</em> model offers, and I think I'm fairly weight conscious, so the regular F4 w/out the batter pack/grip is the one I mean.</p>

<p>Given this further information, would you still think that the F100 would be the clearest choice, or might one of the others be also worthy of serious consideration?</p>

<p>You won't be able to see your f/stop in the view finder with an F100 and AIS lenses. That's one of the reasons I upgraded to an F6.</p>

<p>You can lighten the F4 by replacing the MB21 battery pack with the lighter MB20. Having said that, the MB20 packs are going for over $100 on eBay. That makes the F4 option rather expensive.<br>

Another alternative is an F3. Manual camera, interchangable focusing screens, so you can put in whatever screen you prefer. And w/o the motor drive and batteries, lighter than the F4.<br>

Since you are talking about matrix metering, check carefully, the F4 will matrix meter with the older AI lenses, but the F100 will not.<br>

I do not know how accurate this page is, but it is the only one that is as detailed as it is.<br>

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/compatibility-lens.htm</p>

<p>BTW, I like my old manual focus lenses. The AF are nice, but the focus/zoom ring on the old lenses were oh so buttery smooth.</p>

<p>I would second the F100 if you don't mind some limitations as listed above: no pre-AI lenses, no aperture readout in the viewfinder with manual lenses. At the expense of the pre-ai lenses, you gain access to all the AF lenses. You can focus and expose manually if you want, and you get all the automatic goodies when you need them. It's nice to handle too. You don't get focusing aids in the viewing screen, but the AF sensors still give you focus information when working manually.</p>

<p>But if you don't care about auto focus and like to use older lenses, I'd seriously consider an F3. Beautiful handling, metering somewhere between center weighted and spot, and you can put all sorts of lenses on it. Remember, though, that the F3 is not great at flash work, with a 1/80 sync speed, an oddball mount, and an oddball TTL flash feature that's workable only for a small range of flashes. If you want more modern flash capabilities, you won't get them here.</p>

<p>Iverson, thanks. The F6 is my first choice, but I can't afford it now.</p>

<p>Thanks Gary. Yes the F4 with the MB-20 battery pack is the only one I was considering. I have an F3, but for my intended usage in photojournalism and concerts, a big reason I'd narrowed the search down to the ones I'd mentioned is to have a built in motor drive. That's a helpful chart you provided- I appreciate it.</p>

<p>Matthew, thank you. It sounds like the F100 is an even more capable version of what I already have, but I kind of doubt that I need a lot of what it offers. But then again, maybe if I tried it I'd appreciate those features. My lenses are all AI/AIS, and also, a couple of nineties-era auto focus; no pre-AI.</p>

<p>Anyone know if the N8008s might show the aperture in the viewfinder when using manual lenses, and also, it would be great to hear of someone that has experience with the N8008s as well as the N90s and/or F4, and can offer some comparisons.</p>

<p>On the "noise issue" it isn't so much the shutter making noise on more modern cameras, but rather the electric winding mechanisms. I had a F100 and really liked it, but found I liked the F3, F4 and F5 much better. Not much to say which would add to others' comments on these bodies. Since you don't use autofocus much, the F3HP has a great viewfinder and manual winding (unless you buy a winder), the F4 has a really uncluttered viewfinder + diopter adjustment which is great for glasses wearers - I've found that it autofocuses just about as fast as the F100, and it matrix meters with old AI lenses. It is a bit heavy, but a real joy to use. Honestly, you would have a hard time going wrong with any of these 4 bodies - and you can get them really cheap on the big auction site by taking your time and picking off ones in good condition but perhaps a little worn cosmetically (I've picked up all 3 in the last 6 months for well under $1000 including a couple of lenses).</p>

<p>My 1974 F2 died some 10 years ago. The N90s replaced it. I liked it, but it still didn't feel the same. Never had peeling issues, but then I didn't use it but as an amateur. I also had/have a Nikkormat EL.</p>

<p>In 2006 I got a D200 and went head over heels over that 'new technology thing'.</p>

<p>Since then I've picked up (dirt cheap) a couple of F4s cameras, with mb-21 and the smaller MB-20, with additional finders, an F100, an FM2n and a Nikkormat FT2. (NAS at its finest. I couldn't resist the absolute give-away prices on ebay and elsewhere over the last 5+ years as digital made film prices go to the trash can for some. I now see film body prices have substantively risen, thus I can now convince myself that I am an investor!)<br>

:o)</p>

<p>All have that 'old school' feel to them. The F4 can handle any lens in my arsenal (no G or VR types here), and dials, dials, dials but it is bulky. The F100 is my choice for small body and quick autofocus situations. I prefer the FM2n when I want to go full manual. The Nikkormats give me diversion. So, that's my take on what works for me.</p>

<p>PS ... Ken's page above is very accurate as is Nikonians -<br>

<a href="http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html">http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html</a><br>

As I have previously said here at pnet, save copies of these pages ... they are invaluable resources when poring over piles of stuff at swap meets, etc. Add in Roland Vink's stuff along with Bjorn Rorslett and you have 'the state of the art' lists for lens hunts.<br>

Jim</p>

<p>My first choice is of course the F100, and I heard that they can be found NIB for $250. My second choice would be the N80. It is the F100s junior brother and feels great. My third choice would be the N90s assuming we we are talking auto focus cameras. The N90s is closer to the professional end than the N80, but the N80 has much better ergonomics, at least for me. If you go for the N90s, the data back is recommended.</p>

<p>Thom Hogan's site provides detailed reviews of all of the above and a lot more.</p>

You could just do the what-would-a-pnetter-do thing and get an F100, and an FE2 for when you want to use AI

lenses, and a TTL flash they can share :)

<p>I've collected quite a few AF Nikons since they've become so affordable, and I have to say that the F100 is the one I "trust" most in every situation. I don't regret paying US $1,300 for my first one in June 2001 one bit. I bought a 2nd body from a fellow photo-dot-netter in 2007 for US $300 with MB-15 that has been equally reliable.</p>

<p>I've handled an F100, and they do seem nice. I was a bit put off, however, by the plastic back door and especially the plastic rewind forks--not rational, probably, but still just seemed a bit unnecessarily cheap to me. So I didn't buy one even though I had a chance to get a very good deal on it.</p>

<p>I've got an F4, with all three of the grips. With the MB-20, I don't find the weight of the camera objectionable at all. (Really, I prefer using it with the MB-23--the largest grip of all--as it has a vertical shutter release and a better thumb rest for gripping the camera with heavier lenses.)</p>

<p>And the F4 has an amazingly good viewfinder. After using my D300 extensively, looking through the F4's finder is like viewing the image on a movie screen, comparatively. I've used the F4 many times to shoot concerts, and it was wonderful for that purpose--the weight of the camera and the excellent mirror damping combined to make it very stable indeed, and I seemed to be able to shoot at slower shutter speeds and still avoid camera shake much better than with the D300. (Of course, my hands might have been just a bit steadier back in my younger/film days!)</p>

<p>I'm certain either the F100 or the F4 would more than suffice. I'd prefer the F4, but it comes down to your own priorities as far as weight and whether the D feature for flash might be valuable to you--the F100 has it, the F4 not.</p>

Oh right, rewind fork - there are early F100's still floating around with a design flaw in the rewind fork (at this level,

design flaw means some really low but nonzero single digit percent failure rate) that was later corrected. Look for one

where the rewind fork prongs are square in profile. The triangular/pointy prongs are the old design.

<p>Wow, thanks all!! Some good input to further ponder!</p>

<p>I'm a bit surprised that no one seems to have had much experience with the N8008s. I guess maybe there's something to people still wanting what they dreamed about in their youth. This was the model a friend had, and I still remember that the ads of the day had me dreamin' about one, and now that they are affordable this model's been on my mind again.</p>

<p>But it sounds as if the F4 and F100 might really be the way to go. I'm still a bit put off by what I've read here about the F100's apparently flimsy film door, and I've read similar things about it elsewhere. Still, though, I would think it is probably a big improvement over the one that's on the N6006. So, I'll just have to weigh this all out, and I think you're right, it will probably be hard to go wrong with any of them, really. But additional experienced thoughts would still be welcome! Much appreciated!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Since then I've picked up (dirt cheap) a couple of F4s cameras, with mb-21 and the smaller MB-20, with additional finders, an F100, an FM2n and a Nikkormat FT2. (NAS at its finest. I couldn't resist the absolute give-away prices on ebay and elsewhere over the last 5+ years as digital made film prices go to the trash can for some. I now see film body prices have substantively risen, thus I can now convince myself that I am an investor!)<br />:o)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Great stuff Jim!!</p>

<p>I have an F100 currently, it's my second F100, and I've never thought the film door was "flimsy" at all. It is a plastic door, it isn't metal like an F3 or F4 is. But it hasn't failed and it hasn't created any problems for me at all. I sure like my F100 a heck of a lot more than the N70 I used to have, which put scratches across the top of all the slides I shot through it. The door has the little reminder window so you can see what film you are using, a wonderful feature you won't find on the F4.</p>

<p>I would not buy an F4 today. The main reason is that it is incompatible with any G series Nikon lens. You may find yourself wanting one of these, and if you have an F4, you can't use those lenses. The F4 is a great camera, but is a classic camera, not like the F100, which is still current. You can still buy a brand new OEM F100 at B&H Photo for $800, though I don't know why anyone would when a mint F100 can be found for $250 lately. My current F100 cost me $154 and it arrived in mint condition, I got lucky.</p>

<p>Also the F100 has much better handling characteristics and better controls than the F4. Remember the F4 was designed for professionals who wanted a very strong camera capable of world travel. Another thing to consider is the F4 has very old AF technology, while the F100 has the same system the F5 has, a whole generation newer. The F100 also has a much newer and better metering system in it than the F4, though as someone correctly pointed out, the F100 won't matrix meter with a manual focus lens. That's OK with me though, I find the center weighted and spot metering on the F100 to work just fine for me.</p>

<p>The F100 feels amazing in your hand. I have never held a finer feeling camera in my hand, ever. The F100 is the camera I want to carry around, it just feels perfect. I with my D700 was as nice to hold as the F100.</p>

<p>So you can see I am a big fan of the F100. In fact so much so that I am selling my coveted F3 right now as I've decided the F100 is my favorite 35mm film body.</p>

<p>Dave Lee,....I feel your pain, I have an F100, my F3 coming back from fresh CLA tomorrow, I also have an FE, an F and an FM. It's like trying to decide which of your children is the favorite!<br>

Jeff, I fully agree with Dave on the plastic back thing on the F100. IMHO it simply is a non-issue.</p>

 

<p>Dave, I think you may have sold this highly sales-resistant guy! And thanks to you and Mark particularly for the feedback about the film door.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Anyone know if the N8008s might show the aperture in the viewfinder when using manual lenses, and also, it would be great to hear of someone that has experience with the N8008s as well as the N90s and/or F4, and can offer some comparisons.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I got a N8008s only a couple of months back. So not much of an experience that I can share. But to your above point - it does not show the aperture in viewfinder with manual lenses. Here is a thread that I had posted http://www.photo.net/modern-film-cameras-forum/00YaWJ. My concern with N90s is the sticky back problem. Hope this helps. Good luck.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Mark, <br>

As you can see, I have too many Nikon film bodies at the moment (am selling a few off this week)...</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

<p>Too many Nikons? I don't understand...</p>