Ilford Multigrade Paper

Has anyone noticed ove the past dew years the decline of the quality of Ilfords

Muyltigrade Fiberbase Paper? The blacks seem bland, and the surface is far

from a beautiful air-dried surface. It contains millions of tiny spots, or blisters,

which degrade the quality of the print. No matter what I try-different fixers,

different water systems, different amounts of hardner, nothing works. I am

going to stop using ilford products, i quess. Any thoughts?

Kodak Polymax Fine Art is a very nice paper I think. I switched to it from Ilford about four years ago.

I have used Ilford products for years and always found them to be of very high quality. Perhaps you got a bad batch of Multigrade. You should contact David Carper of Ilford: <a href=mailto:david.carper@ilford.com>david.carper@ilford.com</a>. He is their technical representative.

I've used Ilford multigrade fiber for years and see no decline in quality. It's one of the best in my opinion.

Terence, Multigrade IV and Multigrade Warmtone fiber base papers are excellent products. The quality seems to be improving as time goes by. Are you using Ilford's recommended chemicals and processing procedure? For example: The surface blisters that you describe could be caused by using a developer that is high in carbonate and plunging the newly developed print into a highly acidic stop bath. Incomplete development could be the reason for the bland blacks. Ilford does not recommend using a hardener with their papers. Etc. The Tech. sheets for Ilford B&W products can easily be downloaded from the Ilford website - www.ilford.com

I've used Illford's Multigrade Fiber-based matt paper a lot and it's given me excellent results. I've used Illford paper developer with Kodak stop, fixer, toner, hypo clear, etc. I <b>have</b> noticed that the blacks are a little less deep on the Illford than on some other papers (the Kodak Polycontrast seems to be much blacker). But I haven't noticed any blisters. Overall I really like using the Illford Fiber-based matt paper when I don't need a glossy finish.

I recently switched to Ilford Multigrade IV, after having used Agfa papers for years. I have no complaints about the richness of the Ilford blacks I've been getting. But, I have noticed that much of that richness appears late in the development cycle - typically at 2 minutes or so, even though the recommended development time for the developer I'm using is 60-90 seconds. It may be, Terence, that you're pulling the print too early to get the full development the Ilford paper seems to like.

While I can't say that I've noticed the weak blacks, I HAVE noticed the surface condition you mention. I wouldn't call them spots or blisters...to me it's more like a canvas-type texture. Definitely not silky-smooth like the Agfa MCC I've been leaning towards lately.

I think Oriental makes some excellent papers: <a href=http://www.orientalphotousa.com>www.orientalphotousa.com</A>

I posted the inquiry into ilfords MGFB paper. For the people who responded, I

apprecaite the answers, however, I have been producing exhibition quality

prints for thirty years . I am well aware of how long to develop a print. The

terrible surface on this paper is there no matter what I do, no matter what kind

of water I use, stop bath or plain water, air dry aor heat dry, change chemistry.

Terence, the only thing to do now is change to a different paper and see if the problem disappears. It is possible that you have a defective batch of paper.

I really liked Multigrade III, much better than Multigrade IV. It had more personality. Perhaps the paper was a little more tinted on Multigrade III. That's my impression. To me, the Multigrade IV is dry, and photos printed on this paper don't do much to inspire me. I printed with one box of the stuff, and that was it! I would tend to call it Multigrade IV Coldtone.

 

That's my personal opinion.

 

At the same time, I love the new Multigrade IV Warmtone. I think this is one of the best papers to hit the shelves in years. I'm going to start using my 8x10, and I look forward to contact printing with this terrific paper.

 

I think that Ilford does a terrific job. They specialize in black and white, and that's a real advantage for photographers. Think what the photographic world would be like without Ilford. For example, they regularly do special issues of film for giant format photographers, like 12x20 and above. What a contribution. I decided to standardize on HP5 and ID11, simply because given Ilford's performance and attitude, this film will be around for a long time to come. I sure haven't been disappointed.

 

I wonder if, in making the transition from Multigrade III to IV if Ilford didn't deliberately make it a little colder, simply because they knew they were going to also provide a warmtone version of the paper. This is total speculation. If so, then they've provided us with more variety than before.

What topics do you guys like to print on MGIV Warmtone? I just bought my first pack of 8x10 to try out and am not sure 'what' to print on this paper.

 

Chris

Actually, no. To the contrary I have found that the Ilford MG Fiber base papers have gotten better with respect to quality control.

TERENCE, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY 100% CORRECT. DECLINE, DECLINE, DECLINE. THE PAPER SURFACE HAS GOTTEN REAL BAD. ANYONE THAT HAS NOT NOTICED THIS NEEDS TO LOOK CLOSER. (IN VARIOUS LIGHT SOURCES ). YOU FIRST NOTICE THIS FABRIC TYPE TEXTURE WHEN YOU SQUEEGEE THE WET PRINT. AT THAT TIME IT IS OVERWHELMINGLY EVIDENT. AS IT DRYS IT GETS A LITTLE BETTER. HOWEVER, ONCE YOU'VE NOTICED IT , ITS TOO LATE. YOU WILL ALWAYS SEE IT. IVE HAD NO CHANGES IN PROCESSING TO WARRANT THIS EFFECT AND HAVE TRIED ALL THE HOPEFULL SOLUTIONS YOU MENTIONED. I RECENTLY CAME ACROSS AN OLD BOX OF GRADE 4 GALERIE AND MADE A PRINT ON IT. IT HAD A DEEP, RICH, GLOSSY, BEUTIFUL SURFACE WHERE THE BLACKS JUST DO AMAZING THINGS AS YOU CHANGE THE ANGLE OF THE PRINT IN DIFFERENT LIGHTING. DECLINE CONFIRMED.I STILL LIKE THE TONES AND COLOR OF THE ILFORD MULTIGRADE, I DO THINK THATS GOTTEN BETTER BUT ANYONE THAT HAS NOT NOTICED THE THINNER LESS VIBRANT SURFACE HAS EITHER NOT USED THE OLDER STUFF OR IS NOT LOOKING CLOSELY ENOUGH. I'VE ALSO USED A LOT OF ILFORD MULTIGRADE WARMTONE. ITS SURFACE REMAINS AS BRILLIANT AS EVER. ORIENTALS SURFACE I THINK IS THE BEST. I SUBMITTED A POSTING A WHILE BACK ABOUT THIS SAME PROBLEM. ITS CALLED-Surfaces of glossy fiber base paper. CHECK IT OUT. ITS DISSAPOINTING THAT THE ONLY PERSON AT THAT TIME THAT NOTICED THE SAME PROBLEM WAS FROM ISTANBUL, TURKEY. MAYBE MORE PEOPLE NEED TO GET OUT AND LOOK AT SOME WILLIAM CLIFT, CAPONIGRO AND TICE PRINTS. IF YOU COME UP WITH ANY SOLUTIONS OR ALTERNATIVES LET ME KNOW. HAVE YOU TRIED TO ASK ILFORD ABOUT THIS? I HAVE NOT BECAUSE IM NOT READY TO ACCEPT THEIR LAME DENIALS OR EXCUSES. IM SURE THIS IS PROFIT RELATED. AFTER ALL, WE DO LIVE IN THE DOLLAR STORE WAL-MART GENERATION WHERE PEOPLE ARE MORE THAN WILLING TO SUBSTITUTE QUALITY FOR QUANTITY. IN THE OLD DAYS, WHAT NEEDED TO BE IN THE PAPER WAS PUT IN THE PAPER. QUALITY CAME FIRST. NOW, QUALITY IS WEIGHED AGAINST PROFIT AND SACRIFICES ARE MADE. IM SURE THIS PROBLEM IS JUST SIMPLY THE RESULT OF SOME NEW GROUND BREAKING COST EFFECTIVE COATING METHODS.