Ilford HP 5plus showing lots of grain

Hello everyone,

 

I just used for the first time the Ilford HP5 plus film, exposed at ISO 400,

developed in D76 non diluted for 7.5 minutes at 20 degrees celsius (which is

what Ilford recommends).

 

When I scan the negatives with my Nikon 9000 I get way too much grain -

especially in the sky, but really it is everywhere.

 

I use a Jobo drum on a Unidrum roller base. I use stop bath for 1 minute and

fixer for 4 minutes.

 

Any idea what I am doing wrong, or is the HP5 quite grainy?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Juergen

Here is a crop of one of the scans:<div></div>

Grain is sometimes relative. HP-5 is not overly grainy, but will always have more grain than films like Pan-F or T-Max 100. It sounds like your processing was good. What films are you comparing it too?

That's a common problem associated with scanning b&w negatives. Grain is exaggerated.

 

If your scanner and software don't offer any methods for compensating for grain you can buy a noise reduction program such as Noise Ninja to reduce graininess after scanning.

 

I'm not sure whether Picture Code (the producer of Noise Ninja) offers preset profiles for your scanner and HP5+ but it's fairly easy to create noise profiles from scratch.

 

If you plan to routinely scan your b&w negatives rather than print them conventionally you should consider adjusting your exposure and developing techniques. With HP5+ in ID-11 (nearly identical to D-76) I got the best results at EI 200. Don't overdevelop - this emphasizes the grain seen by the scanner. With most films I get the best scans when the film is exposed for full shadow detail but developed for thinner negatives than I would normally like for conventional printing.

 

Also, D-76 and some other developers deliver the finest grain at full strength and very good grain at 1+1. Don't dilute this developer more than 1+1 for developing negatives that will be scanned. If you continue to have problems you might consider trying to find some Microdol-X, Perceptol or similar fine grain developer.

Juergen,

 

that looks really grainy to me, like it was overexposed/overdeveloped. I'm attaching a scan of a 35mm HP5+ negative developed in my Rapid Universal developer for comparison.

 

Jay<div></div>

Compaired to Tri-X I find it a tad grainer but not as much as you show.... I think it may just be scanning... it took me a while to figure out how to scan it... do your negatives look dense? I find the Ilford times a little long for my taste in D-76.

 

Larry

Lex if that's the full frame rather than 1:1 then it is way too grainy for this film. I regularly scan my negs (Nikon LS 8000) and grain is not that much an issue even with TMZ. In fact I am often amazed by HP5+, I see things when I enlarge that I didn't expect to be able to, like stitches in clothing. It's no FP4+ or TMX, mind, but it is not a coarse-grained film either. This is developing in Aculux 2 or HC110B.

 

A touch of the Median filter in Potatoshop goes a long way towards clearing up grain, set it to 1 or 2.

I will never get the idea behind scanning a b/w film. If you scan, use a C-41-film like XP2; or even better, use a real color film, which allows you to simulate color filter effects at the post-processing stage.

 

Films like HP5 make sense only in traditional printing.

 

Regards

 

Georg

IMO, HP5+ shows more grain than Tri-X, and scanning any higher speed b&w film can emphasize grain. See if you can get somebody to make a conventional wet process print- you need something to compare to before you can truly diagnose the problem. My guess is there's nothing wrong with your negatives at all.

Georg - Your solution would involve letting someone else develop the film (loss of control, and fun) or setting up to develop color film, something many are not interested in for many reasons.

I'll bet money it's your scanning process/neg development. I fought this problem for a long time before I arrived at Lex's solution. Be careful of your exposure (minimum), do not over agitate during development, monitor your temps carefully (I had an inaccurate thermometer too) and I use 10% less development time than the box calls for and I now get pretty decent scans of 400TX. Prior to doing this I was getting golf ball sized grain. Just the slightest deviation from the above process and the scanner would start to exaggerate the grain pattern through grain aliasing. Thin, almost flat, negs work best on a scanner, not too good for conventional processes though.

 

Best of luck,

Thank You all for your help. My negatives are nice and contrasty and maybe that is indeed the problem. I will shoot a roll and over expose, as suggested and also will reduce the development time by 10%. We'll see what happens then. Thanks again!

Use a true fine grain developer.

 

I suggest UFG or Acufine. they will give fine grain and a slight film speed increase.

 

HP5+ has always been a grainy film, its predecessors HP5 and HP4 with fine grain develoers were actually better (yes, I have 16x20's from 35mm that are excellent).

 

Lynn

Juergen,

 

overexposure will only make the grain worse. Minimum exposure consistent with adequate shadow detail will produce the sharpest negative, with finest grain. Overdevelopment should also be avoided. I've not found HP5+ to be a grainy film, when handled as above. The example I posted was not developed in a fine grain developer, but a Universal developer for films and papers. I hope you sort out your problem, HP5+ is a great film.

 

Jay

I agree with Jay. If the posted photo is a straight scan without modification of the contrast cuve, it appears to be overdeveloped as the highlights appear quite blown.

 

It may well be overexposed as well.

 

It's my experience that conventional grain ISO 400 speed films (APX 400, Tri-X 400, and Ilford HP5Plus) will begin to get much grainier if overexposed more than, say, 1 1/2 stops in many developers.

I used ID-11 stock on suggested time, it seems fine to me. After the scanning, adjust the curves. Try few rolls until you can repeat the same grainess outcome, then you can review the whole process to think clearly what went wrong. One roll is hardly providing any data to reach the conclusion. The again, it is rated 400, pushable to 1600, so it is not going to be clean as 100 films. - cheers, mervyn

I have always found in testing and shooting that both FP4+ and HP5+ are much grainer thand their competitive film speeds (and they are much less sharp and grainier than their predecesors).

 

I strongly suggest that you use a true fine grain developer if you insist on using it. UFG, acufine, Microphen, etc.

 

Lynn