Identifying Leica model and year of manufacture

I salvaged a Leica from a garage sale for $1.00. It's old, and it's

not in great shape. The lens appears to have fungus or a haze,

especially on the front element near the outer edges. Could just be

dirty, I haven't tried to clean it. The shutter seems sticky. It's

missing part of the leather cover on the front of the camera.

 

It says Leica D.R.P. Ernst Leitz Wetzlar on the top, and serial

number 397234. The lens is a Leitz Elmar 5cm 1:3,5 serial 599490

(very small numbers on the black ring surrounding the front of the

lens).

 

From reading other posts, I believe that this is a model II. I'm not

really interested in using this camera (and I doubt it is usable),

but I'd like to know a little more about it, especially the model

number and when it was made. Can anyone help me identify it?<div></div>

Here is a top view.<div></div>

<a href="http://www.cameraquest.com/ltmnum.htm">http://www.cameraquest.com/ltmnum.htm</a>

<br>

Looks like a IIIC, and it sounds like you got an amazing deal

It's even got half of a Geiss-contact on the shutter speed dial.

According to serial number, it appears to be a post-war IIIc. Check <a href="http://www.cameraquest.com/ltmnum.htm">Cameraquest LTM Serial Numbers</a>. The lens looks like a Nickel plated Elmar 50, same vintage. Both are eminently salvageable.<br><br>

 

Getting it to useable condition should cost you around $300. The lens $200. The vulcanite is gone but you can replace it for a Cameraleather cover for another $100 or so.

<br><br>

OTOH, you can get a nice IIIc for about $400 and a clean Elmar 50 for $300, so you're back to square 1.

I'm sure that someone here would give you more than you paid, if you were interested in selling it.

Congratulations, Skip! I have a couple of older Leicas and they're very beautiful objects.

 

I have to say that although you should keep this lovely object (even if you never fix it), if you ever want to sell it ("Renovator's Dream") you are welcome to e-mail me. ;-)

I'm not sure exactly what that thing is on the top shutter speed dial but it is not part of a Geiss Kontakt. The Geiss flash synchronizer had a hole in the top showing just the speed being synched.

IIIc from about 1945-46. The Elmar is also from the same years, so they may have been purchased together.

Skip: It does look like an IIIc to me as well. It is a great camera. I was looking for one and ended up finding an IIIa. Love it so much that now I am selling my Minolta CLE instead of it. I strongly encourage that you get it CLA'd and use it. Since you got it so cheaply, you can get it CLA'd and still come way ahead of what I paid ($550 with a Summar 50/2 lens). Good luck.

Wow. That was a bunch of fast responses. Thanks, guys!

 

I guess I'm not really surprised that these old Leicas can still be repaired. I love old vintage cameras, particularly fully mechanical ones. After inspecting this one, though, I didn't think it would be worth repairing because of the lens and the sticky shutter. But I've been firing the shutter, and it's starting to loosen up. Overall, it seems to be mechanically functional. Perhaps I'll have it repaired after all if I can find a service facility. Anyone know of any good ones, especially around Dallas?

 

Loading film into the camera doesn't seem all that straightforward, and there are other controls that aren't intuitively obvious (to me, anyway). Like that little lever in front of the shutter release button with the R <--> A next to it.

 

Does it use standard 35mm cassettes? Are there any web-based instruction guides that show how to load and shoot the model IIIc?

For instructions try: <a href="http://yandr.50megs.com/leica/3f/3f.htm">http://yandr.50megs.com/leica/3f/3f.htm</a>

<br>for a iiif, but most of it will apply to the iiic too.<br>

I own a iiic but use iiif instructions i found online and find them helpful. I got my instructions elsewhere and cannot find that link unfortunately. Hopefully the one I provided helps.

>> Are there any web-based instruction guides that show how to load and shoot the model IIIc? <<

<br><br>

Start <a href="http://www.cameraquest.com/ltmcam.htm">here</a> for simple instructions and overview. Cameraquest has some interesting articles that are considered a must. <a href="http://www.manuals2go.com/">Manuals 2 go</a> has a downloadable manual for $6.99. And <a href="http://www.ozdoba.net/leica/schraub_laden_e.html">here</a> are some well laid out instructions for Screw Mount Leicas.

The step under the rewind lever would make it an early (wartime) IIIc and the serial# confirms it -- made between '43 & "46. The lens is of the same vintage. Is the shutter intact and what color is it, black or red? Does it have a "K" on the shutter? Are there any other engravings on the top or the back? IMMAO it is definitely worth salvaging. Certainly worth further investigation.

I agree with Al that the thing on the shutter speed dial doesn't look like a Geiss, but I believe they made several different models, and they also had competitors who made similar attachments. You got a super deal. Have fun with it.

Stephen and Jorge, thank you for the links to manuals and usage materials.

 

Harry, the shutter is a black fabric focal plane type. The lens just has an iris, no lens shutter. I don't see a K anywhere. Or did you mean the shutter release button? It looks like chromed brass, with the brass showing through.

 

Now that I know a little more about this camera, I think I will get it CLA'd and repaired, as I can afford it. It has the takeup spool inside it, but it seems to be stuck.

The A-R lever is the film Advance-Rewind lever. It takes standard 35mm cassettes. Practice loading with a scrap roll of outdated film - you'll have more success if you trim the film leader to make the narrow "tongue" about 3" long.

 

Leica no longer services screw mount cameras, so you'll need to find an independent. DAG is highly recommended - search the threads for service recommendations.

If you scroll down to this forum's archives, you'll find 2 categories - Leica Thread Mount and Service. In there you'll find a sh_t load of information you're looking for. You've stumbled into the world of Leica Screw Mount. You might never be seen again.

Just to add that if it were me, I would probably get the camera repaired and lubed but not the lens. You can get a Summitar 50/2, which is a much better lens than Elmar, for about $150. If the Elmar lens is as described, it might cost that much just to bring it to life. Just a thought.

I have just swapped into a Summitar from an Elmar, I will be developing the first roll tonight Skip, I will let you know how it goes. You may want to follow Wentongs advice, as the raves for the Summitar and the speed (well mostly speed) are the reasons I swapped into it myself.

Forgot to add, I know a guy who does incredibly cheap, fast, and great CLAs and other work on these cameras, <a href="mailto:wye7@yahoo.com">Youxin Ye</a>. Contact him first if you are in need of experienced work on this camera/lens, though he doesn't do cleanings on Elmar's unfortunately from what I remember, he does a great job on the bodies.

I've been using John Maddox in South Carolina for screwmount Leica repair. He is EXCELLENT and works only on screwmount Leicas (and the Japanese Leica copies). John prices his repairs very, very reasonably. The only downside is that he is very popular and he has a backlog of work. If you search on the web for John Maddox Leica repair, you can find his phone number.

Ken,

 

>> You've stumbled into the world of Leica Screw Mount. You might never be seen again. <<

 

Until you resurface on this forum. Happened to me six years ago.

Gerry Smith at Kindermann Canada in Toronto would be worth considering for the restoration of your IIIc. They usually have an ad in the back of Shutterbug magazine.

Get the Elmar cleaned and adjusted and use it! If you want more speed go ahead and buy a Summitar, but keep the Elmar. It is the most compact of any lens you can find for your Leica. Stopped down it will produce pictures so close to the quality of faster and more expensive lenses that only an �expert?� can tell the difference. I still have � and use � my old �38 Elmar and though I know it isn�t quite as good as my �Red Scale�, what little difference is hardly important to me. Go ahead, get a faster lens, but hang on to that Elmar; the more you use it the more you�ll love it!