ICC printer profiles for Costco -- OK if two years old OK?

OK, thanks to the help of PN members I am set to bring my 2400 x 3600

TIFF down to my local Costco and get it printed with "no mods."

 

Drycreek Photo has profiles for my local store's Noritsu, but they

date from 2003. Should I be worried about this? Another store,

farther away, has a printer that was profiled in 2004. Basically, do

the profiles drift very much over time?

Hi James, I wouldn't think the profiles would drift as long as the paper you're using stays the same. The profile is "geared" towards the paper. Good luck!

Give it a try, also you can download the target have it printed at the store of your choice and send it to Drycreek. They will update it, and then you will have a 2005 profile.

Of course, the best thing to do is to print a test and see how close the color match is between the printer and your presumeably calibrated and profiled monitor. At costco's prices, that's what, about $0.35 or so?

 

I've worked very closely with my local lab to get profiles of their Noritsu 2901 made via Dry Creek. From this experience, I've seen firsthand that profiles can drift, often significantly, over time.

 

Paper characteristics change from batch to batch, so for critical matching, they really should be reprofiling every time the emulsion code changes on their paper stock. The aging and seasoning of the chemistry can also subtly affect color balance, though the linearization procedures performed daily on these machines should reduce these effects.

 

The manufacturers also make significant changes/improvements to their papers over time. In the last year the Kodak paper we use at the lab changed from "Royal VIII" to "Royal Generations" and it was a significant change that required a new profile. Software upgrades to the machine can also change its response. When the Noritsu tech recently rebalanced the machine for the new paper, it drastically improved the rendering of yellows, again requiring a re-profile.

 

So, long story short, I wouldn't trust a soft proof made with a two year old profile on a Noritsu. It's probably not too far off, since these machines are self-calibrating and tend not to drift too badly, but I would expect some subtle color shifts when printing. With a profile that old, the best plan is probably to get a set of 4x6" proofs made, which should cost very little at Costco. If you're happy with the proofs, then go ahead with your enlargements. Otherwise, you'll have to correct the file based on the proofs, and reprint the proofs. Repeat until you're happy.

 

The real problem is that most of the people who use these machines barely understand enough to run them. When you mention "ICC color management" and "soft proofing" their eyes just glaze over. The guy who owns the lab I work with is a real Noritsu pro, but doesn't entirely understand digital color management. He's pretty much let me set up their ICC workflow, which benefits both of us. Perhaps you could make a similar arrangement with the manager of the photo dept. at your local Costco?

 

And BTW, you can no longer just print out the little 4x6 Dry Creek target and send it to them for a free profile. They now offer two services: a $50 one-time profile or a $100 subscription profile that allows up to 12 re-profiles over a one year period. The upside is that the profiles now use much bigger targets (3 8x10 targets instead of 1 4x6) that result in more accurate profiles. At the lab I use, we signed up for the one year subscription, and I have them reprofile the printer every time the paper emulsion batch changes, every time the software is upgraded, or every three months. Maybe you can convince your Costco photo dept. to pay for the profiles if you're willing to do the work of downloading and printing the targets, sending them to Dry Creek, etc.

 

-Jon

Thanks this is very helpful.

Don't believe in ICC profiles of minilabs too much. First, there is problem with chemistry, new paper revisions and machine to machine deviations (for bigger companies with more machines). Then, every print size can be printed on different paper. You profile 4*6 on Kodak Royal but 8*12 may be printed on Kodak Endura. Finally, for many machines there is no way how to turn off automatic changes. These changes (usually perceptual conversion to the color space of the machine) are based on the colors from your image. Therefore, they behave differently for ICC profile targets (gamut must be significantly reduced as the machines can't print bright colors from the chart) and differently for normal photos without very bright colors.

 

While the profiles will give you a basic idea how the image will look like (you will for example see that there will be no pure green - it will turn into yellow-green or brown-green, yellow will go to orange). But you will not be able to see how much this will happen with your photos. I have tried to profile several labs from Agfa, Noritsu, Fuji but the results were simply not good enough for real use.

You may not beleive in them, but it is clear you don't understand how they work.