I Think Schneider Deserves The LF Community's Loyalty

I've been studdying lenses for three day now. And Focus and

movements and prices and .......yadayadayada. I've printed out so

much stuff I had to send out for paper and printer ink.

 

After all this, one thing I 'feel' ( I could be wrong and please ...

fill me in) is that Fujinon and Nikon don't deserve our business.

They treat us like the crazy old aunt in the attic and give NOTHING

back for all the dollars we spend with them. One has to be a

regular net Sherlock to find anything meaningful about these lenses

and thank goodness the private websites with links here have at

least provided basic information.

 

But Schneider Optic's website is a veritible encyclopedia of info

that EVERYBODY here obviously uses. Well they are going to get ALL

of my business. I believe in reciprocity. I like a corporation that

seems to value my business and does nice things for me.

 

I frankly don't give a rat's patoot if I can get cheaper lenses from

our Eastern friends. Untill they give us the respect we deserve ...

mechanically laminate them by means of helical sharp threaded

devices!

Hi Scott

 

Rodenstock is in the same category like Schneider they are very helpfull and you always can ask them questions and you get very helpfull advices etc.

For the japanise is it a to small business against there other parts from them, strange but it is so!

 

Schneider and Rodenstock are boots the winners also in service here in EU!

i totally agree with that, but what's wrong with rodenstock ?

i don't remenber the adress of their website, but it was good as well...

I was in tokyo, 3years ago, and info about nikon's and fuji's LF lens was available, i understand that the market is not good enought to print in french, spanish...versions, but they could have at list a website in english !

Anyway, i've tried nikon lens (90/4.5 and 65/4.5) and i didn't like the colour rendition, it's a matter of taste !!!

I think there's not a lot of lens very interesting in these trade marks:

nikon 90/8 (lightweight and large image circle), and fuji 240/9A for same type of caracteristics

So has the day finally come where a company�s only attribute that matters is, do they have a good web site? It�s nice to have instant access to info, but it�s not an end all to end all. How about the quality of their product?

Also I might point out that Fuji and Nikon still make their small, compact and field camera friendly Fuji A and C and Nikon M lenses, while Schneider and Rodenstock stopped making their Clarons and Ronars. So if your interest is outisde of the studio and you want longer lens that don't weigh a ton you might need to look outside the web. This is not to say that Schneider and Rodenstock don't make fantastic lens. I just don't feel like that if a company doesn't spend a ton of money on advertising, that it makes "They treat us like the crazy old aunt in the attic and give NOTHING back for all the dollars we spend with them." true.

Scott, I agree with Ed's statement. You have been studying lenses for only three days, as you stated. How can you draw your conclusion based on the amount and type of information that's available about the product on the internet? It may make sense to you, but not to me. Nikon and Fuji sell more lenses than they can manufacture. Fuji doesn't even want to have a distributor in the US. These two manufacturers keep their quality up by keeping their production numbers down. Dollar-for-dollar, Nikon and Fuji make some of the best quality lenses on the planet. I wouldn't have made that statement twenty-five years ago. At that time I also believed that Schneider lenses were the best. Let's see if your conclusions hold up twenty- five years from now. (It's time for my first cup of coffee this morning).

Scott - I'd agree that it would be really helpful if more manufacturers would provide info over the Internet. If they choose not to do so, it does not make their product crap!

 

There's only one way to compare lenses and that's to look at the differences in the printed result. They all have their own merits, disadvantages light fall-off, circle of confusion and bokeh.

 

Epson has a lousy internet presence, but they still deserve our business!

 

Mark

Scott, In furious research and postings about large format cameras over the Thanksgiving weekend I am sure you are much more educated than any of us who have actually been using large format cameras and lenses for many years. There are even people on this forum who make a living off of their work. But never mind that. With all the insight and experience you have gained in your weekend of web searching you surely know best. So into the dumpster with the El-Nikkor enlarging lenses, Fujinon 240A, I'll even toss the Nikon 35mm gear just to teach them a lesson. Then I'll go and replace all that stuff with a Componar enlarging lens (I couldn't find that one on their web page), a 240mm G-Claron (where did that go again) and look for some old Rollei 35mm equipment that had Schneider lenses. That will sure teach somebody a lesson. Never mind the fact that I will have deprived myself of some top quality equipment that has been a useful tool in my photography.

By the way, have you learned to distinguish between a long focal length lens and a telephoto lens? I was just wondering if I should toss out my long focal length non-telephoto lenses in favor the Schneider Telephoto designs.

I too give my business, what little there is of it, to Schneider but not because of their web site. I think that the modern leness from any of the "big four" manufacturers are going to be pretty much equal in terms of technical quality. So I base buying decisions on things like maximum aperture, size of image circle, size of lens, weight of lens, price, things like that. Usually applying these criteria still leaves several choices among the major manufacturers. In that case I buy the Schneider, if it's one of the choices as it always has been, because Schneider alone among the "big four" seems to be consistently improving its products and bringing new lenses to market. Rodenstock hasn't made a new large format lens in something like six years I don't think, certainly nothing like the volume of new large format lenses that Schneider consistently introduces. Nikon doesn't seem to have any interest in selling its large format lenses. I don't know when they last brought a new large format lens to market but it must have been at least fifteen or twenty years ago. Fuji I don't know about since they don't care enough about the U.S. market to have a U.S. distributor or otherwise promote their large format products here. That leaves Schneider as the only company that seems to have a serious interest in the large format photographer in this country at least so that's what I buy when I have a choice.

Nice little rant there at the end Scott!<P>"www" stands for "world wide web' . A

web is defined by the holes between the strands as much as it is the strands

that make up the fabric ofthe web. Kudos for to Schneider for their website but

I'll continue using Rodenstock, & Nikon lenses as well as a few choice

Schneider lenses (the 110mm XL Super Symmar and the 47mm XL Super

Angulon), thank you very much. <P>Why? Because I generally prefer them to

Schneider optics. Also Bob S. (of HP Marketing --Rodenstock's USA

distruibutor) has been a great help to many people on this forum, and yes I

know some people don't like his tone of voice sometimes, but he has never

been less than fair or accurate in the information he dispenses, even if we

don't always agree.

Scott,

 

You ask a lot of questions on this forum, which is fine. But your comments are not well-informed. (How old are you? I am thinking that you are lacking in life-experience, which will come in due time.) I suggest that you carefully study Leslie Stroebel's book, View Camera Technique (newest edition). If you will just get off the Net and into Stroebel's book, you'll at least gain a good theoretical foundation for large format photography. After that, it is mainly a matter of thoughtfulness and practice. I wish you well.

Well, I've had my morning cup of coffee, and I've read and re-read the responses to Scott's diatribe. The internet is an advertising medium. It costs money to advertise on any medium. Schneider, Rodenstock, etc. pass those advertising costs along to us, the consumers, through the price of their products. I've always believed that the best form of advertising is word-of-mouth from satisfied users. Scott, my advice to you is purchase a lens, already! Use it for a few years. Then post your opinion of that lens on this forum. At least, you will be speaking from actual experience. Oh yes, read every book and article you can find on the subject, and stop believing all that manufacturer's hype that you download from their websites. (Now, I'm ready for my second cup of coffee this morning).

Scott, by now you have surely calmed down (?)... Don't fool yourself with your philosophy, the world is imperfect. Did you know that Silvestri has on its site an address which is not working at all? And the info you get there is good to make you wonder if their cameras are really so excellent as their fame is... Never mind, all good things must be hunted with perseverance, like good pictures..!

Well, me when I bought my 4x5 many, many years ago, saw a used Nikkor W 210 at the same time, good price, bought it and have used it for 14 years with nary a problem. With my 12x20 other than the G-Clarons a good modern lens is the Nikkor 450 that will cover this format..so guess what I got? Use what you need not what the commercial tell you. BTW I also have Schniders and Rodenstocks, but as I said before these lenses were purchased on needs and price not because they had a web site.

When all of the emotions are set aside, photographers are no different from any other consumers (albeit a lot more intelligent and picky) in the fact that when they elect to make purchases for lenses and other materials it is all about the relationship between costs and performance. The name is really immaterial as they have nearly become commodities. I think that it is great that Schneider is trying to make you feel good about them via some customer service, but at what price? I could give a rats ass if Nikon does not advertise as long as they produce good products. Yes, it would be good if they designed a new lens but that is not where they are at. Same for Fuji.

 

Since all of the big four produce wonderful products, let the individual consumer elect their price entry point and call it good. All we will get out if this is pure emotion once we tend to discount the realities of a competitive marketplace. Just be thankful that we have a choice.

Wonder why Goerz doesn't have a web site. Does this mean that I should get rid of my Dagors?

I can only speak from where *I* stand. Presently I have gained only resentment for Fuji and Nikon. They have made it dificult for me to understand their product and they have done NOTHING to help me better my craft.

 

I have a personal vendetta against aloof, disrespectful merchants. I actually enjoy witholding my money from them. If it does not bother you that the guy with his hand in your pocket treats you like a chump .... so be it.

 

I didn't say anything about Rodenstock. Bob Soloman is a standup guy and has personally helped me. But Rodenstock hasn't given me any incentive to spend my money with them. Where is the kind of helpful information such as can be found on the Sinar site ... and of course Schneider's?

No Text.

This is what I bought this morning. I had to contain my

resentment against the Holmes, Booth and Haydens Company,

first off because they're long dead, and second off, the Internet

(or the phone) had not even been considered at this time.<P>

 

<I>

 

Holmes, Booth and Haydens Daguerreian Lens  #5949; brass

daguerreian lens, c. 1860, by this well-known firm. This lens is

rather unusual, in that the lens shade and outer focusing collar

are finished in black; the internal barrel is brass. Approx. ten-inch

focal length; radial drive. Physically 3" diameter, 6-1/2" long,

including shade. Appropriate for half-plate camera. No flange,

else superb example from this prime manufacturer.</i><P>

 

Scott, respectfully, you aren't making any friends on this forum.

You're just showing your ass. You need to get out their with an

old used metal Calumet and one busted-up Caltar lens, and

then come back with a body of ten or twenty nice images. Then

you can earn the right to raise the roof in the way that you've been

doing.<P>

 

In the short time that I've been following this list, I've found

nothing but strong support amongst the fine people here. But

you've gotta bring some kind of "bare minimum" to the table to

earn respect; you can't just show up unannounced and start

thowing food. The end result is that you'll just be ignored, and

rather quickly.<P>

 

I'll even devote a private segment of my site for you to temporarily

store your images, so that we can discuss photographic

images, instead of the minutae of lenses, or even worse,

photographic companies. If you're interested in this offer, contact

me off-list.<P>

 

Just my opinion. I might be wrong.<P>

 

Mark Tucker, http://www.marktucker.com/

The only thing that Nikon and Fuji have done to help me better my craft is to produce excellent quality lenses, cameras and films. Of course that was all I was looking for. If you, on the other hand are looking for something else, that is your choice. I have no particular interest in one manufacturer or the other. I have several Schneider lenses and they are excellent. Having my name on them certainly helps the intangible appreciation. To suggest that a company be judged based on the amount of information published on the web is a criteria for judging the quality of product or service is a bit naieve. My company has chosen to limit the amount of information we publish on web sites. When information is published in this manner it often denied the opportunity for one of our technical specialists to evaluate a customers needs and guide them to selecting the right product. People come to the web looking for one specific number or bit of data, that is not enough information to judge how a product works in a specific application.

 

Have you taken many photographs with a Schneider lens Mr. Fleming? The proof of the pudding goes way beyond what could be published on the web page.

I notice that some of the smartest guys around here don't post images. I'm not putting my 'babies' out in the cold. Besides they aren't worth looking at ....yet.

 

I have not made a statement in any way denigrating any product's quality. Only the service I can easily apprehend just as any average consumer. I am the first to recognise I have no standing to make public statements regarding the quality of any LF product.

 

I have not tried to start a food fight. Just seems some toes need some average protection and some skin is way too thin.

 

Just speaking from my level of experience and that is all.

 

You and some others have intimated that I have fallen for Schneiders advertising OR that a good website is not a proper way to size up a product. I have not done this nor have I indicated that I have. Furthermore I see no relevance in your argument citing purchases of antique equipment constructed before the advent of modern technology. I believe that is a straw man argument. Or even a red herring.

 

Fuji and Nikon need to step up and we need to encourage them to do so. Purchasing their products in spite of their obtuseness will never accomplish said ends.

With ALL due respect... your marketing philosophy is outdated.

 

The MOST effective way to get me into a showroom is to put the BEST and most extensive info on a screen right in front of me that I can EASILLY and QUICKLY access.

 

And believe me. I'm a consumer.

 

If you are relying on some hourly employee to convince me of ANYTHING ... your reliances are misplaced. Clerks and salesman are paid PROFESSIONAL liars. They are the LAST person I listen to when buying ANYTHING.

You make the most cogent observation refuting my stance.

 

****Since all of the big four produce wonderful products, let the individual consumer elect their price entry point and call it good. All we will get out if this is pure emotion once we tend to discount the realities of a competitive marketplace. Just be thankful that we have a choice.****

 

I should be happy that the Japanese are pushing Schneider to do even better.

Having Nikon and Fuji post technical information on the internet

may be helpful to consumers looking for that kind of specific

information, but not having it readily available did not hinder me

from purchasing a few Nikkor lenses. If you're basing your

choice to not use Nikkor or Fuji lenses on whether or not they

don't have technical information on the internet you're cutting off

half of the big four. It doesn't seem very logical to limit your

choices in lenses on something that you could easily research

on the internet or from a forum such as this or through literature

that you can get from a Nikkor dealer. I have a brochure of

Nikkor lenses with tech specs that I got from a camera shop. It's

in english BTW.