I need camera body advice

<p>Hello all.</p>

<p>I have been asked by a friend of mine if I would teach his 14yr old son how photograph with and process black and white films. Apparently he is fed-up with Photoshop or its clones, which is what they use at his school. Obviously he does not want to spend a lot of money on a camera body if his son should decide not to continue B&W film photography as a hobby.</p>

<p>My thinking is as follows. The camera body just holds the film and providing the shutter speeds are reasonably accurate something like a Nikon EM might suit him. I think for 'ordinary' photography all singing super duper bodies are of no use to someone of his level. I am prepared to loan him one of my zoom lenses (Nikon fit). I believe the image quality is dependent on the lens rather than the body (please no technical arguments).</p>

<p>What suggestions do you have. Am I approaching the project from the correct point of view?</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

<p>Dennis</p>

K1000? Plenty of them, with 50mm lenses, on goodwill...I would not recommend a Nikon EM, better he learn about shutter speed and aperture options.

<p>I'm not sure that force-feeding someone aperture, shutter and other technical details is the way to entice them into photography if they are fed up with the complications of Photoshop. Better that the son has the option to do it manually if he <em>wants</em> to.<br /> Consider whether something like one of the earlier Nikon (if that mount is thought to be necessary) AF cameras like the <a href="/modern-film-cameras-forum/00al2w">N80</a> might not be more attractive to someone who just wants to capture an image without all the fuss.</p>

<p>If a manual-only camera is desirable, the K1000 is one option, but the M42-mount basic models of the Praktica L series (L, L3,...) are very rugged and lenses are plentiful and cheap.</p><div></div>

<p>Not too sure about the Nikon EM (Pentax guy though); if I have to urge somebody into old fashioned photography I would like to give them a body that tells "You set shutter & aperture right or *that far*off* in the viewfinder; not like AE1 "remeber number on ring & look what hand is pointing at." - IDK for sure what the EM offers display wise.<br>

Are the Russian F-mount bodies more expensive than it?<br>

I heard K1000s are too much a legend and that way overpriced / too popular? In doubt: pass whatever you can spare / get hold of / have at hand. What about Nikkormats & Nikkorexes? - Too old?</p>

<p>The EM works great, but he won't learn much from it other than perhaps manual focusing. He can get a Pentax Spotmatic with a 50mm M42 lens pretty inexpensively, or even less expensive, a 1950s era rangefinder with a fixed lens and either an inexpensive hand held meter, or have fun with the sunny 16 rule for exposure.</p>

<p>The EM is a pleasant and easy camera to use with a nice bright finder. It doesn't have a manual exposure mode but so what? Black and white film has a lot of exposure tolerance. It could be a very good first camera for someone getting into film, but there are of course, so many other options. Just make sure it is compatible with the lens you are planning to loan. Otherwise a 50mm lens would be as good as anything.</p>

<p>OK a manual exposure camera would be good for learning about shutter speeds, aperture etc but even more basically, the simple process of exposing and developing film, and printing from it, is going to be completely new to people who have never experienced it.</p>

<p>Perhaps talk to your friends son, to see if he's inclined towards something more simple and traditional like the EM, or whether like most young people these days, he's prepared to take on something more technically challenging, with AF, matrix metering, shutter and aperture priority and whatever other bells and whistles are on offer.</p>

Been awhile since I ranted about the Nikon EM.

It's the last SLR I'd recommend. In 20 years I've

handled about two dozen used EMs and not once

have I found a fully functional camera.

 

There's no shortage of good used reliable SLRs

with full manual control: Canon, Konica, Minolta,

Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, Ricoh, you name it.

 

But not an EM. If you find one, pitch it off a

cliff. Do it for the children.

<p>Nikkormat with a 50mm f2.0 as it is indestructible and extremely easy to use. Check with criscam.com on site as many of the older cameras took mercury batteries and need adapters. If you want rangefinder let me recommend the Yashica GSN but it too will need an adapter. </p>

<p>It kind of depends on what is out there, but another possibility, existing plentifully, might be a late Minolta. The X370, for example, works very well, has a manual option, lenses are fairly cheap, and it was made for a very long time. It uses modern batteries, as do all the Minolta X series, along with the aforementioned Pentax K 1000. The one disadvantage over some is that it does require batteries to work. </p>

<p>Another that can sometimes come up cheaply is the Nikon FM10, which is still made. Manual with a decent meter, it behaves much as the K1000 does, except that it has a DOF preview button, and of course it takes Nikon lenses. Made by Cosina, the FM10 gets knocked by Nikon aficionados, but it works pretty well. </p>

<p>How about F2/F2A ? It's a tank and extremely reliable one - simple.</p>

<p>Les</p>

<p>My word what a fantastic response to my question. Loads of good advice which I will consider and have a chat to his son. From my conversations with his father, I gather he wants to 'understand' the effects of exposure (apertures/shutter speed) on black and white film so it will have to be a body with manual functions.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the responses. I think I will look at the Nikormat range.</p>

<p>A Nikon N70 is an autofocus body that has full manual functions and works on currently available batteries. It can do spot metering as well as center-weighted averaging and matrix. It should be possible to find one that has seen light use for very little money.</p>

<p>Film cameras are cheap these days - get him the one that offers options: F100. And I refute the notion that in order to understand exposure and its relation to aperture and shutter speed one needs to shoot in manual mode.</p>

<p>Since you are willing to lend him a Nikon lens, may as well go with Nikon. I'd say that almost any Nikon body with manual functions would be suitable, and one with at least some auto function would make his life a bit easier while starting.<br>

So my suggestion: Nikon FE. Simple, basic, easy and fun to use, and well built. Automatic aperture-priority mode, set the aperture and shoot. You should be able to find one for less than $100. Either KEH or Craig's List or whatever.<br>

But again, there are lots of other options that would work, too, from autofocus to Nikkormat and on.</p>

<p>Niko®mat will require a (pair of?) CRIS battery adapters or a readjustment of the meter, but it's the camera I learned on, and a very good one to start with, especially if someone has lenses you can borrow!<br /> I would recommend the Nikormat before the F3 because it has the analog meter, which I found very easy to use and understand as a young-un. The F3's LCD is less intuitive, but the camera's one he can keep for the rest of his life.<br /> Always nice to see the next generation doing film. Keep your eye out for a set of stainless developing tanks and reels. They seem to run about $25 on the auction sites.</p>

<p>Almost forgot: Bryan Peterson's _Understanding Exposure_</p>

<p>Does it have to be all manual? As others, I don't see why, really - but yes, the manual option should be available in the end (so no EM then). I know prices vary around the globe, but cameras as the Nikon F65 (N65) or F75, F80 (N75, N80) are a whole lot cheaper here than the FM/FM2/F2/F3 cameras. And it will do manual everything, but also auto, which for a young(er) student might not be a bad thing (one step at a time). Personally, I think the F80 JDM adviced might be the best-rounded option (the F100 is nicer, but costs quite a bit more), but over here, the F80 still commands 3-4 times the price a F65 commands.<br /> Similar of course are cameras as the EOS300 etc. All brands had their cheap(ish) plastic entry-level SLRs, but they do the job, cost nearly nothing and are plenty easy to find. But since you have the Nikon lenses, indeed would work to stick with Nikon.</p>

<p>Personally I prefer my F3 and FM2 over my F65 too - I am not saying these plastic AF cameras are superior. But just because he wants to learn to work with film, doesn't mean he immediately also has to like/love manual focus and manual exposure only.</p>

<p>I don't disagree with Wouter - just that it sounds like the kid wants to also learn film processing and 'the real thing' with exposures, etc. Nothing wrong with the basic autofocus bodies, either, and if he'd like autofocus, that makes sense.<br>

From my own experience, though, I find the 'automation' of aperture-priority enough to work quickly, and the direct feedback of seeing the aperture and shutter dials very instructive - something I don't feel with the electronic controls of most autofocus cameras. From the shooter's perspective, set your aperture, check that the shutter speed is high enough (if not, twist the aperture dial), and that's it - focussing is obvious.<br>

Plus the FE just feels great. But it's one of the cameras I grew up with, so I'm biased.<br>

One thought: if you can find one with any of the basic 50mm lenses, the combination is the whole experience - light, simple, effective. Maybe more so than a zoom on that body.<br>

Good luck, and hope he has fun.</p>

<p>I'm not partial to Nikon for someone starting out. The perception of compatibility with modern systems raises the price of lenses. Minolta, Olympus, or Canon manual focus all have abandoned lens mounts which makes it reasonable to buy a 28mm/50mm/135mm set for about the price of one of those on living system. If the path to digital is a mirrorless system camera they can even retain use as stop-down metered lenses. An auto-only body is a ticking time bomb: should he keep going and end up in a college class it won't be usable.</p>

<p>For a Nikon mount camera I would recommend the Nikon FM. I think it's cheap enough. If you are going to get a lens, the Pentax KX is very nice. I would not recommend the K1000. It's too expensive. Minolta SRT are fine but meter usually not good and need special battery so I wouldn't recommend them if meter is needed. <br>

Not recommending the Canon AE1 or A1 because they are quite confusing for beginner. Of course the Nikon F2, F3, Canon F1 are great but price are high. </p>

<p>Can't believe what I am reading here - someone wants to learn how to shoot and process B&W film and most recommendations for an appropriate camera are intent on sending him back to the stone age of photography.</p>

<p>Not partial to Nikon either - but for the "lens loaner". Recommend the F100 over the F80 because the former can meter with manual focus lenses - which may or may not be something that's desired or desirable. But no specifics are given about the "loaner zoom".</p>

<p>Unless the teaching involves the use of an external exposure meter, I recommend to select a camera that allows spot metering - how else is he going to learn Adams' zone system? If that's not part of the "teaching" and "learning", then the experience will certainly be incomplete.</p>

<p>A word on the EM - not only because I consider it unsuitable for the task at hand - but also because I owned one - the only Nikon that ever failed me during a shoot. It's in good company though - the only other camera to ever do that to me was a Leica M6 ;-)</p>

<blockquote>"Not recommending the Canon AE1 or A1 because they are quite confusing for beginner"</blockquote><p>

 

That's an interesting perspective. Conventional wisdom says the Canon AE1 was enormously successful because the auto exposure

option made it easier for novices to use, compared with the predominant all manual cameras of that era. <pp>

How about a 20 dollar N8008? It's built tough enough that even a teenage boy

can handle it, costs less than an F80 or F100, and offers a blend of the features

of both early modernity and the late Pleistocene. If the back is already sticky,

just borrow some of the lad's skateboard tape for a field-expedient repair!

I think your point of view is right. I also think that something retro would make it more interesting/cool.

<p>So many good choices. Canon AE1 is often cameras that schools use to teach beginners on. Nikon FM, FM2, FE FE2, F2 or F3 or Canon 7 rangefinder or a modern Cosina Bessa R or one of their cameras. simple as it gets, small and easy to use.</p>

<p>Nikkormats are pretty affordable used. The FT3 uses AI lenses, the earlier ones are pre-AI<br>

(so need lenses with the lug on them). <br>

I have one with an alkaline battery in it. It is at least close enough for B&W. </p>