I can't let this Leica glow thing go

So at the risk of getting the verbal tilt shift kicked out of me, here it goes:

 

I've gotta think that Leica glow is something real. I don't see it in my Nikon, Hasselblad, or LF shots. But it

is obvious to me in 50% of my Leica shots. For those brothers and sisters that don't "believe", just skip this

thread. For those that do, is it possible this is the result of such a short distance between the lens and film

plane, or a narrow cone of light or something? I do see it often with another favorite camera I shoot with, the

Zeiss Ikon Contessa 35mm folder with 45mm Zeiss lens, and I do see it even with VC and Zeiss ZM lenses. Do you

have any thoughts about this? I can't let this go for some reason.

What lenses do you see it from?

I used Nikon film cameras in my old portrait studio. One year I tried a Leica R4. The difference between the pictures, with the same film, was very surprising. I don't know if glow is the best word but the Leicas are in a class by themselves. Later I found out that the M series gave even better results, probably because there was no mirror moving.

Glow does not exist. A certain amount of flare of highlights does in older Leica lenses under certain conditions. it exists in some Japanese lenses also.

 

The other fact is tonal representation rendered by european lenses is different than Japanese. If you shoot in black and white, the difference in heritage is very obvious. Put two color slides together taken same time same place, and the difference is obvious. As you progress to later Japanese designs, the difference narrows but remains.

 

Adapting a Leica lens to a Pentax and using it in the middle of a roll of slides is what prompted me to sell my Pentaxes. I also achieved a decade long goal of making really good black and white prints. I did not change film, developer or anything else. I spent years trying films and developers to no avail. Plain old D76 and plus X worked for me with the Leica. The first roll worked and that was that. My last vacation, I carried a Nikon digital and Leica with film. Leica digital is also superior, but not on an economical basis. I will not buy a problematical M8 and the R digi does not exist and will not meet my price point when it does. Digi is kind of a leveler, but not completely.

I "believe" as well... it's not what makes every photo (and I take plenty of photos with Japanese gear that I am happy with), but it does show up and it is real... even other photog friends of mine see it in some prints and can identify it imediately (and they aren't shooting Leica). Leica didn't get to stay in the camera business just based on snob appeal, their stuff is really good and distinctive.

I see it using a 21 SA, 35 ver 1, 50 pre-asph, 50/1.4 SC Nikkor in LTM, and Fat 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit. All pre-1968.

<i>I do see it often with another favorite camera I shoot with, the Zeiss Ikon Contessa 35mm folder with 45mm Zeiss lens..</i>

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Michael, With all due respect, if you see "it" with that lens (a fine coated Tessar), either the lens needs a CLA or you need a different perspective. ;)

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That ain't "glow"!

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For "glow" use any lenses with a few plano-convex elements in their construction (like the early Summicrons. Lots of spherical aberrations.

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The current generations of Micronikkors (60mm f/2.8 G, 105mm f/2.8 G, 85/2.8 PC-Nikkor) all have such elements added for better bokeh but are coated better (so little glow).

BOKEH, dude. It's called BOKEH.

 

Jeff M

Leica lenses, in the right hands, make nice photos. So do many others.

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The 'glow thing' is a crock IMO.

Can we see some examples please.

I never see Leica "glow" from any of my Leica multi-coated lenses. If I did, I'd figure they were defective.

<P>I suspect that the glow, if it exists, does not translate on to the internet. Given a carefully crafted monochrome bromide print viewed in ideal conditions, very possibly something is going to show up, but when that image has been scanned, jpegged and rendered into screen pixels a few hundred size in each direction, nothing subtle is going to be there.</P> <P>The whole thing reminds me of the mystique surrounding tube amplifiers for hi-fi.</P>

Leica glow?<div></div>

The glow is a curious, but absolutely true ,sense of three dimensionality,that is reality, in the photograph. My 35mm summaron 3.5 produces some of the most wonderful images. As do my two summicrons (DR and collapsible) even my old 135 hektors. It has nothing to do with flare. Scoffers abound, but the "glow" does exist, and you never see it in nikon or pentax stuff, however competent sharp or excellent those lenses may be.

In over 40 years of using Leica gear, I have yet to see "Leica Glow". I've seen flare, aberation, high contrast, silky smoothness, but no "Glow", in my work or others. I've come to the conclusion that "glow" is a nondescript term coined by marketers and "true believers" trying to justify the mystique of their cameras. Having said that, I continue to love my Leicas.

"The whole thing reminds me of the mystique surrounding tube amplifiers for hi-fi."

 

Except - tube amplifiers don't use negative feedback - and they don't clip like a transistor amplifier. The closest to a tube sound from a transistor amplifier are the amps made by Balanced Audio Technology (BAT) specifically because Victor Khomenko uses parallel out-of-phase signal paths to cancel the distortion instead of negative feedback.

 

I know that Bob Carver did the famous "Santa Fe" test in which he measured a tube amplifier output, spent all night in a hotel room modifying one of his transistor amplifiers to sound like a tube amp, and the next day in double-blind testing nobody could tell the difference. But, the point is - he had to do quite a bit of work to make a transistor amplifier sound like a tube amp - and there is a real, audible difference between tube and transistor amplifiers.

I think the "Glow" Michael A. and Mark H. might be referring to a a certain soft 'roundness', (3-Dness), and tonality of the images. A Elmar 50mm screw i had on my IIIF exhibited such characteristics. But it surely isn't limited to Lecia lenses....

the only photo ive ever seen that "glowed" was an original ansel print of "aspens". none of my lieca or nikon pics have ever glowed for me--perhaps its my technique. wonder if a person could tell the difference betwen pics taken with nikon and leica when laid sise by side, all other variables the same? doubt i could.

Open any image in PS, go to USM, enter amount 20%, radius 30 pix, threshold 1. Season to taste with the fader. There you have it,

instant glow.

 

That being said, yes, I think there is sometimes a certain quality to photos made with a Leica, and some Leica lenses (the

ones I know are Summicron 50, Summicron 35 4th version and 90 Tele-Elmarit), which is hard to describe. A lighting in the

details, a special local contrast, maybe, which make things stand out, a general almost tactile sense of three dimension, I

don't know. I've even seen it with non-Leica M lenses. I think. Maybe that's what somebody coined glow, for lack of a better word. And no,

it's not to justify anything, because I couldn't care less.

<i>For those brothers and sisters that don't "believe", just skip this thread.</i><p />

 

And yet ya' still keep raining on our parade<g>. And also, glow to me is not fuzzy light such as that from a foggy, or single or non-coated lens. It's more like a quickening of the tonal range, particularly evident in dramatic lighting, and has a look to it that is very different than what you would see with a Nikon.<p/>

 

Here are some examples (I just grabbed a few that display what I see as glow): <br/>

 

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/zzj/3006268959/in/pool-summilux35mm/">1</a><br/>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/zzj/3008518542/in/pool-summilux35mm/">2</a><br/>

<a href="

<a href="

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/ojuicearts/2966908168/in/pool-28summicron/">5</a><br/>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/andretakeda/3006217007/in/pool-summicron35mm">6</a><br/>

<a href="

<a href="

I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder. I don't see anything which is unique to Leica in the above shots which couldn't be reproduced with a lot of other cameras.

Tube amps rock. Funny how I like the whole tube amp sound and feel. Prefere vinyl to cds but some how like digital images for color. And some tube amps do use negative feedback. Tube amps clip much better than transitors. I like to drive my drive amp so hard that it clips, nothing sound sweeter than an overdriven tube amp.

It's real. Kraut lenses have it in bushels! Don't have Leicas anymore, but all of my Zeiss optics exhibit this weird phenomena. Some of my

Russian lenses do too, and even my old East German Zeiss Jena lenses. It must be some bizarre component of the raw materials used

for optical glass over there. I do like my Nikon older AI lenses for crispness though. Totally different look.

Stuart

 

You are hardly being a maverick - pretty well every guitarist prefers (or professes to prefer) a tube amp. The Leica glow is more controversial - many people think it is a post-hoc justification for owning Leica.

 

I have to say I do not think there is anything special about Leica glow. I do think Leica optics are famous for their high quality - but "glow" is not of these characteristics in my opinion as I don't really know what it means: unless it refers to the results from uncoated or flare-prone single-coated optics - which can be nice, but hardly unique to Leica.

"I like to drive my drive amp so hard that it clips, nothing sound sweeter than an overdriven tube amp."

 

Except it's not clipping the signal like a transistor where the top of the waveform gets either totally clipped off (exceeds the maximum gain level) - or, depending upon the amplifier design - the waveform crest bends over much like a wave in a lake or ocean right before it turns into a whitecap.

 

Tube amplifiers usually distort the waveform by making out-of-phase harmonics - which is why most guitarists still prefer tube amplifiers - they're tone generators depending upon how you set them up. I use one of these: http://www.rivera.com/products/rseries/r30-112.php