How to set 5 D mk IV for lots of JPEGS of passing runners?

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by Jochen, May 16, 2017.

  1. This is an EOS-noob question. I don't know the camera yet and the sports event is on Saturday afternoon. I'll bring the wide shot of the start home with another camera. The runners strt at the regular mark on a soccer field surrounding track. - I am planning to dash across the field and get them coming out of the first corner or down the 2nd straight leg of the track. - They will be about 100 people, I'd like to try to capture everybody, So RAW as susual doesn't sound like an option buffer wise.
    I suppose I shall set the camera to noisy continous shooting, at least 1/500 sec f8 auto ISO, IS on. - I have a 70-200mm as my only lens.
    What to do about the JPEGs? - Keep them neutral? Or what would you recommend?
    What to do about the AF? Set it to what exactly? - The multitude of options is confusing to me.
    Shall I try to get used to backbutton focusing or not? - If "yes", how to practise? - I stumbled across some folks claiming it would be a thing of the past. - I have no own opinion since the other cameras I used seem so sluggish that I couldn't see much benefit of it.
    Does it make a lot of sense to switch all image optimisation processing in camera off because it's processor is underpowered and would slow things down?
    Sorry to bugger you all. I'm aware that the 5D isn't the ideal camera for that job, but I couldn't afford an 1D and it is really just that one sports event every year, that I have to cover with an SLR. My regular interests are concerts, events, people where it should shine(!), even with just me trying to select focus points by hand.
     
  2. Not entirely sure I understand correctly - you want to dash diagonally across the field while the runners go down the first straight and around the bend? Are you that fast?
    Even getting straight across to the end of the 2nd straight is no small feat but appears doable. Are they doing one lap only and/or are leaving the arena after one?
    Each one individually? Doesn't seem possible no matter what your camera settings; runners will still be in a pack and the pure mechanics of moving your lens from one to the next will be too slow to get everyone.
    Why? What's IS going to accomplish?
    It's all I use and it certainly is not a thing of the past. Don't see that it'll make a difference in your situation though. You will have to be in continuous AF mode to activate tracking since your subject is moving and since you have to refocus when moving from one runner to the next, backbutton yes or no isn't a crucial decision. If the Mk IV has eye-focus, you could try that. I'd most likely use single point.
    Since they don't give you much leeway in post processing, set them up so that you like the output.
    What exactly do you have in mind here?
     
  3. First, I think you are overthinking this. A 5D4 is going to do just as well as a 1D in this circumstance. It's only ~100 runners afterall. It is certainly capable of everything you need it to do. If shooting JPEGs, your buffer is infinite (for practical purposes - until the card is full) assuming you have a modern fast UDMA7 card. ie. nothing to worry about. As long as you have the light to shoot at 1/500, and f/8, those sound like a reasonable range. A high static ISO is probably fine so you can take every bit of DOF and shorten the SS as much as possible... Simply leave on AI servo, with single center point selected, and you'll likely have enough DOF to compensate if it misses focus, and shooting a bit wide will allow you to crop in post. Setting JPEGs as neutral is fine if you are willing to do post. The camera's processing is NOT what slows it down, that would be writing to a memory card. The 30-40mb the camera has to write to a card for a RAW (or, worse, a DPRAW), is going to slow down camera operation far far more than imposing image processing requirement which reads out a 5-8mb JPEG.

    Simply grab a quick 3-5 frame burst of each runner as they approach, while tracking them, then on to the next, rinse and repeat, and I predict you'll be fine.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  4. TY both! @Marcus Ian : So far I was always shooting RAW on everything else, thats why I asked how to set the JPEG processing. I'll buy UDMA7 cards tomorrow. - My leftover CF cards from the past won't get me anywhere. - I meant stuff like "lens aberration correction" and maybe high ISO NR? - Is it uncritical to leave those on?
    @Dieter Schaefer : I'm not fast but the runners will do at least 5000m most 10km i.e. 2 laps, mainly outside the arena, so I should have some stamina advantage. - The 5D has AFAIK some crude face, but not eye detection.
    I'm still hoping for somebody experienced with that body to jump in.
    Another open question: how to practise backbutton focusing till next year?
     
  5. Automatic White Balance, AI Servo, Auto ISO, manual mode, set the shutter speed to 1/500 to 1/1000sec and set your f-stop as desired. I like setting my AF points selection to zone selection and I use the joystick to move my focal point zone to best suit my shot, but you may also like large zone.The 5D Mark IV will adjust the ISO as needed and should perform very nice. I walked around for several hours today with a big100-400 L lens between f/5.8 to f/8 and didn't miss a shot, exposure was always on the money and the 5D Mark IV is so good with ISO, I am not worried about noise, pretty much all shots are usable. It's a great camera. You can walk around and just concentrate on composing your shots and playing with the f-stop to suit your desired depth of field for the shot. It is the best camera I have ever worked with. Just relax and have fun shooting.

    As far as my cards, I shoot both RAW and JPEG, I save the RAWs to the CF Card and the JPEGs to the SD. Both cards are the fastest cards I could find. I had read that just saving to the CF would be good, as the SD cards are fairly slow, but really I am not machine gunning when I shoot, usually a small burst here and there. I really like tweaking my RAW files to improve dynamic range in post. You can shoot how you like, but I think you will kick yourself later wishing you could raise the shadows and lower highlights for some shots. But that is your decision. It The way I am doing it is not slowing me down for my style of shooting.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
  6. As to focusing check the following links:




     
  7. I'm going to ignore the discussion of running around the field to get in position and assume that you'll be in position. Set autofocus for AI Servo mode, AF Program 3. I'd select single-point, plus 8, so that you can control what the camera focuses on, particularly when the field is crowed. I'd set SS at 1/1000-sec. and f-stop at f/8 and then put ISO where it needs to be for the light. (I'd use Manual, but you can use Auto-ISO in this situation). The MkIV is really good at high-ISO. Hand hold that 70-200mm and keep IS on, which will steady your subjects in the viewfinder.

    Forget about back-button AF, unless you're already doing it. It's not a superior method, just a personal preference, which you can explore when things aren't critical. I wouldn't worry so much about the buffer. If you normally shoot RAW and have the appropriate, fast CF or SD card, then continue to shoot RAW; however, this isn't really critical shooting, so you can adjust highlights and shadow, even with a group of JPEGs, so long as you don't require too much adjustment. Shoot in bursts of two or three.

    Set WB for outdoors, but auto will be okay also, in full sun. If it's overcast, then you might want to manually set WB. (Of course, this isn't an issue in RAW). Because your exposure latitude is limited a bit, vs. RAW, be will to spin the EV up and down, particularly if some runners are wearing all white. and the sun is bright. Ideal conditions are actually a light overcast, where you will not need to worry too much about blowing out highlights. If it's heavy overcast, don't be afraid to run the ISO up and drop the SS to 1/800-sec. and open aperture to f/4, while realizing that focus becomes even more critical.
     
  8. You should leave those on, as it shouldn't impact your buffer tangibly. As you have the camera now though, you can try it out to see if you can impact it's buffer. If you have a buffer size less than 40 or so images, then you *may* have a problem (though likely not). Recall that the camera has a buffer countdown in the VF, so you can always see how many shots are available.

    As far as UDMA7 CF cards, they come in numerous flavors and quantities. You want ones that SPECIFICALLY have a 'WRITE' (NOT solely a 'read' specification) specification in the 150mb/s range (aka ~ 1000x). I have UDMA7 cards which range from ~50mb/s write speeds to ~150mb/s write speeds (depending on how old they are). Why the camera doesn't have cfast slot is anybody's guess... but is frustrating for a professional grade 30mp camera in 2017... Either way, having a modern card is going to prevent you from bogging up your buffer...
     
  9. This is a 5D Mark IV right? I know this event has already passed, but with my 5DIV I would just shoot 4K video and do high end screen grabs after the fact. I have 4 or 5 256GB fast SSD's. If you don't have that much storage just shoot it in 1080P video and if you need do screen grabs from that. For me shooting a thousand JPG's at hgh speed just doesn't have the same affect it had a few years ago. 4K or HD video with IS on and pick a nice stable location where you can zoom and pan with your lens instead of trying to keep up with runners. Planning and video will get you a better end result than photos IMOP.
     
  10. IMO, you'll get better results shooting stills, focusing on each individual. The act of shooting stills assures (assuming that you know what you're doing) appropriate focus on the individual, not some neighboring runner. Editing to individual level shots will be much quicker. As a still camera, the 5D4 has plenty of speed, particularly when shooting jpeg. Focus on each runner. That's what you're paid to do.
     
  11. This is with a D70s, Tamron 18-270, I believe with a 2x TC, from the bleachers on the opposite side of the field.

    With the TC, I have to manually focus, as it won't do it right on AF.

    With a reasonably high ISO, and bright sun, the shutter and aperture aren't so bad for this distance.




    DSC_8356.JPG
     
  12. Sorry, but NOTHING is in focus. Ditch the TC. Modern cameras are better than humans at focus.

    You're in poor position relative to the runners and the composition is poor. I can't figure out why you're posting this.
     
  13. From a rough calculation based on the width of the image (about 7m), I was 160m or 525ft away

    Yes it is manual focus, and might not be exactly in focus, and the subject is moving, and it is handheld,

    but to me, it is surprising to get it at all.
     
  14. Please take this in spirit of me trying to be helpful.

    We all have different expectation levels. You listed all the reasons the image is subpar, so, I'd suggest, that you start avoiding subpar images by fixing those things. Raise the ISO and shutter speed so that they're appropriate for the situation. I hand hold almost everything, but that dictates that I use a higher SS. I'm trying to be helpful. You seem to know what can wrong, so now it's time to step up your game and start generating superior images. (in this case, be in front of the runners, crop tighter in RAW conversion, use higher ISO and shutter speed).

    DON'T manual focus for anything that moves. It's okay, or required, for macro and landscape (using Live View), but deadly for action shooting. (I AF my landscapes mostly, but that's another subject). I grew up in the manual focus era, but my camera viewfinders had aids to focusing in the viewfinder. Modern camera viewfinders are not designed with that in mind. Buy lenses, particularly telephoto, with AF in mind.

    Here's one, at least 600-feet away, handheld, AF turned on, but ISO 800 and 1/3200-sec. SS. Your camera is capable of this sharpness level, so you should start striving for it, IMHO:

    [​IMG]In The Pipe by David Stephens, on Flickr
     
  15. Sorry, yes, I appreciate your being helpful, though it might not have sounded like that.

    I wasn't an official photographer, but a parent of a runner. I didn't have the freedom to stand in a more appropriate place to shoot.

    I don't know if EXIF comes through, but it is ISO 1600, 1/250s, f/11. But actually f/22, because of the TC.

    And yes, I am impressed by the surfer picture.
     

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