How to avoid excessive grain in B&W scans?

Hi all,

I'm scanning TMY negatives with a Canon 4000 FS scanner, using for

the moment the canon software. Some of my scans are very grainy on

the computer screen and on the final print (I am using MIS quadtones

with an Epson 1290 printer). This doesn't happen with all the

negatives, just some of them, usually the ones shooted in weak light,

and it doesn't change when I scan in RGB mode. Is this grain created

in the digital process? Is it the normal film grain magnified by a

sharp scanner? Are there any tricks to solve it? I am developing the

negatives myself with Tmax developer 1+9 (which should give more

grain than the usual 1+4 solution), and also my control of

temperature etc is not perfect, so it is possible that the scanner is

enhancing some grainy negatives. Any hints of what to do? Thanks!

 

Miguel

I forgot to mention that grain comes up even without unsharp masking. Somewhere I've read that people suspect that the Canon scanner incorporates always some unsharp masking without saying.

I think the best option is to use the C-41 based black and white films and run whatever grain reduction software you have available. You may want to use Vuescan to avoid the sharpening.

I also recommend trying the chromogenics like Ilford XP-2 for scanning purposes. TMY isn't a very strong B/W in the first place with meager density range, IMHO, so it's not like were trying to pull HP5 or Tri-X out of your hands.

 

The inconsistent grain is likely caused by having the scanner set on auto mode, and it's setting ridiculous black and white points on the low contrast scenes causing grain to simply explode. This is a really big problem with many scanners because their film curves are almost always optimized for color neg films. Exposure is not the problem since conventional B/W films actually 'grain down' with decreasing exposure. Color print films or chromogenics are just the opposite.

 

My suggestion is to SHUT OFF ANY scanner automation, and use the settings the get a good, clean scan from a particular frame of B/W film for ALL B/W film. I believe the Canon allows you to save scan settings, but I'm not sure.

 

I get superb B/W scans from any B/W film I use for one main reason; I shut off the wiz-bang scanner software and scan B/W film at one setting optimized for the widest density range. Any scanner that doesn't allow me to do this I wont use. I then do my correcting and tweaking in Photoshop.

 

Some other suggestions are to scan your B/W film as a color positive (slide), and then invert it in Photoshop. I also recommend scanning B/W films as a color neg and not B/W film, and then desaturate in Photoshop. You basically want the scanner software to do as little thinking as possible and image processing. This is much more efficiently done in Photoshop, and almost always results in less grain and cleaner images.

As I�ve said on another posting here tonight I�ve got a CanoScan FS4000US and think it�s the bees knees. As someone else suggested I scan my mono film using the colour negative setting and then desaturate using Channel Mixer (set all numbers to 33%). I find that this most closely resembles the traditional original prints. I�m outputting via an Epson 1290 and Lyson HexBlack inks.

While I have a Nikon scanner instead of a Canon, I can recommend VueScan to help reduce some artifacts created by scanners. I really does a great job and is a bargain for $40.

Another vote for vuescan: I have a Canoscan FS4000 and never use Canon software. Vuescan gives you a lot of control over your scanner.

Thanks for comments so far. I am planning to use Vuescan. I also scanned last night some TMAX400-CN negatives I have from my early feeverish days with photography, and they really scan well, allowing also to use the automatic dust remover of the scan. But I am a bit romantic about traditional B&W films (I must be one of the very few people in photo.net who likes TMY) so I prefer to make an effort before switching completely to chromogenic film. Also, I have 200+ contact sheets of traditional B&W negatives to scan.

 

Scott,

To make sure I understand you well: you recommend applying a curve that works well with a wide density B&W negative to all B&W films. Following this logic, does it mean that my grainy negatives are those with low contrast, which the canon software automatically "corrects" expanding the contrast grain and thus enhancing grain? The Canon software allows you to manipulate curves and brightness/contrast, and yesterday I scanned a difficult negative with variations in contrast, and then corrected them in Photoshop, but with no clear improvement. When you say all your B&W negatives scan well it makes me envious. Most of my scans are more or less grainy.

Scott,

 

Thanks for your answer - I've always had grain problems when scanning B&W with Nikon's scanner software. Your solution works beautifully, and now I'll stop blaming the film and start blaming the software. Vuescan is certainly a big improvement for B&W films over the firmware.

 

Miguel,

Scott is suggesting that you ditch the Canon software completely in favour of Vuescan for your TMY negs. I'll second that after following his instructions last night. US$40 is cheap and it'll save you the anguish of the grain problem.

 

Cheers,

Graeme