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How many Prints should I offer ?


hjoseph7

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I have been trying to figure out how many prints I should for my wedding albums. Of course the more hours of

coverage you offer, the more pictures you have to offer. I heard of photographers offering about 300 pictures for 4 hour

coverage, that sounds like allot of work to me. That's like shooting a picture every minute for 4 hours and this is not

counting the throw-aways. Is this possible ?

 

Considering that a typical album can only hold about 150 4X6s without adding any 5X7s or 8X10s, what's the sense

of shooting all those pictures ? What would be the typical amount of prints. I have a list of "must-take" pictures and it

amounts to about 55-60 pictures. The rest are Candids, special effects, B&W etc. So if 55-60 pictures are the

minimum I have to shoot for an entire wedding, and since a typical wedding album can only hold about 150 pictures,

what is the sense of offering 300 or 400 pictures ? Please help I'm kind of new at this.l

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I am not a professional photographer, but I did a wedding 2 weeks ago and the point of taking photographs of someone's wedding is to document the customer's special day not get shots to fill a wedding album. "Shooting all those pictures" (I took 2000+ shots in just under 8 hours)" gives you a thorough story to give back to the bride and groom and you owe your clients all the shots you can muster. And, if you are there anyway why not just keep shooting. The best shots are had when you least expect them. And if shooting 300 pictures in 4 hours sounds like a lot of work, maybe you should think again about wedding photography. Granted, I have only done one wedding and I am sure the first one is the most stressful of any but after about 4 hours I about had an anxiety attack. It is a lot of work but that's the least you can do for one of the most important days in the B/Gs' lives. My 2cents for whatever its worth.
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Huh? Why let the size of a wedding album limit the number of pictures you take - or the number of pictures you offer your client? Of course, it depends on what you and the bride have contracted for, but you should be trying to capture every worthy moment in the celebration. And since you never know how many that is going to be..and you likely will take lots of throw-aways to get a few good ones...shoot away and sell all the good ones!
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80 to 100 high quality Finished 5x7 or 20 to 30 HQ Finished 10x8 plus (about) 40 5x7 is a ball park for the B&G wedding Album.

 

That is around the general output from the studio for which I work.

 

But, some businesses offer `1000 images on a CD`.

 

There are different businesses and there are different client`s requests and demands.

 

A client who is seeking out to buy a Wedding Album package, is a different customer to one who just wants the 1000 images on a CD. Also, not all customers necessarily want a Full Documentary style of coverage.

 

Typically, I would take about 400 digital images and around 60 x 645 film images (Formals).

 

From those, the client usually sees about 350 to 380 digital images and about 45 to 50 film images.

 

An average total of around 400 to 420 images for a full coverage, from me, start to finish.

 

That output and my quality, suits my clients. Frankly, to give them more images from which to choose is not what they are seeking (Client`s comments, not my guessometry).

 

It all depends what business one is in, what the product offer is. There is no `right` or `wrong` way of covering a Wedding, and it is limiting (and not wise business) to assume what the Client wants regarding the amount of prints in an album (and also in what general style they want too, IMO).

 

In that regard, it is sensible, IMO, when offering albums, to have a general print number, but flexible enough to easily accommodate a greater number, at little extra cost to the client.

 

But that is about Pricing and Client Value Add . . . and a different thread I think.

 

WW

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Harry,

 

You have an excellent question. I shoot over 40 weddings a year and generally question whether or not I

am giving enough or too many photos. I shoot around 600-800 photos for a 4- 6 hour period. I try to capture

every detail of the wedding day. I do not use the shot-gun version of photography. I look at the situation and

take the shot that I feel will help tell the story. I also know exactly what sells and what does not. I offer

several packages and several different album choices. My photo count is in-line with my hours of coverage. If I

shoot a 4-5 hour wedding, I offer 100 edited and printed photos. I can tell a story with 100 photos. If I shoot

more then 5 hours, I offer 200 edited photos. Now, I retouch ever printed photo that goes into one of my albums.

I do not offer unedited photos unless someone takes my budget package. Now, I have not sold that package in the

past 2 years. Most couples want edited wedding photos that tell the story of their special day.

 

Now with all that said, it is all about economic. I do not agree with Amy. I will never give a couple 2000

images unless they pay for 2000 edited printed photos. Based on my current packages, 2000 edited photos will

cost my couple an additional $6650.00. Like I said, it is all about economics.

 

My next point is quality. Unless you are one of the top photographers and you have an ideal situation, you will

need to do some post processing of your photos. I could not even imagine processing 2000 photos.

 

Therefore, I only offer edited photos. I have the ability to capture every detail of the couple's wedding day

and tell their story in less the 200 edited photos. I offer one style of traditional album that holds either 100

or 200 photos. I offer Flush Mounted and Magazine Style Coffee Table Books that can hold approximately 100 -200

photos. This is my comfort level and I am able to keep the cost down for my couple, tell their story, and

produce a quality product.

 

Just remember, many guest have point and shoot cameras and they will offer the couple as many photos as they

want. They will be unedited. They will be good enough. If you provide a few quality photos at a reasonable

rate, the couple will feel they received a value. If you use the shot-gun effect to capture everything and

anything and give the couple un-edited files, you will not separate yourself from the Uncle Bob's.

 

You should take a look at your bottom-line and determine how many quality photos you can provide your client and

still make a profit. More is not always better. Just remember, once a photo leaves your studio, you can not

control who sees it.

 

George

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Great answers, I guess you have to be flexible. Cost wise and quality wise, I guess the less prints the more pictures and the more pictures, the less prints. I was thinking from a point of view of wedding albums not coverage. The wedding album's main purpose is for those must-haves and what you and the client agreed upon. The rest you can throw in as 4x6s ?

 

I was also taking into consideration "the nuisance factor". I mean how many pictures can you take at a wedding, before you start getting in the way of the wedding ? Combine that with how long are my batteries flash cards and flash head going to last and you are limited, unless you made arrangements to overcome those obstacles.

 

I originally started by offering 250 pictures for 4 hour coverage, then I stoppped by the local camera guy to take a look at some of his album covers and most could only handle about 150 pictures, so I revised my count, but as you guys recomend it's not all about album covers.

 

Some photographers offer 2 album covers one for the bride and groom and one for the parents. That would make it 3 album covers ! Now I see why some wedding photographers charge top-dollar for their services, it can get costly.

 

I'll have to check how many pictures I took during my last full-coverage wedding. I was working as a second photographer so I'll have to estimate how many pictures I actually missed. I think I took about 500 pictures, before my batteries sarted giving out and my flash cards became full. Out of those 500, only about 250 I would consider printable.

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I now only do weddings on a limited basis. I don't even offer prints (I will print a couple enlargements however). I simply offer my Photoshop edited shots on DVD's in nice cases. I offer one DVD with downsized images for the web (and a musical slide show), and another DVD with full sized images suitable for printing. I charge enough to not worry about loss of reprint sales but provide a competitive price. It simplifies my work and the customer is happy. I had shot weddings for over 30 years so I understand what you are going through. I agree with other posters when they say shoot the event for best coverage, not worrying about how many shots will go in an album. At least today you are shooting digital versus medium format film when I started.
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>That's like shooting a picture every minute for 4 hours and this is not counting the throw-aways. Is this possible ?

 

Umm...yes. I routinely shoot 3-20 frames per minute at a wedding. It's normal for me to walk away from a six hour wedding with 2000 to 2500 frames.

 

I edit those down to 300. The result is that the final 300 are really good. I tell people that the goal is to make your throwaways just as good as the keepers of other photographers.

 

> What would be the typical amount of prints.

 

I do 300 albums on a six hour wedding.

 

> what's the sense of shooting all those pictures?

 

To document the wedding. Dude, just forget albums. That's old school.

 

In my view, the job of the photographer today is not to produce a boring album from a list of photographs.

 

The job is to document the day and help the couple remember it for many, many years.

 

Only half of my couples care about albums. The other half want to have someone who can help them remember their wedding day.

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"...Umm...yes. I routinely shoot 3-20 frames per minute at a wedding. It's normal for me to walk away from a six hour wedding with 2000 to 2500 frames.

<p>

I edit those down to 300. The result is that the final 300 are really good. I tell people that the goal is to make your throwaways just as good as the keepers of other photographers..."

<p>

Or you could be more "old school" and take your time - select the shot - and take 900 to 1200 shots per wedding and deliver 300 to 350 images to the bride and groom that are really good.

<p>

Photographers that grew up and learned on film will usually shoot less and obtain the same results as the younger photographers that are almost shooting at "video" speed. It's really all about selecting your shot at just the right moment IMHO.

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<i>e almost shooting at "video" speed. It's really all about selecting your shot at just the right moment IMHO.</i>

<p>

Video speed would lead to 24*3600*4 = 0.35 million shots in four hours. I think even with the "almost" you're

exaggerating slightly. ;-)

<p>

Choosing the moment is just one aspect. Composition and light are others. If you want to get shots where the best

light coincides with the best expressions of multiple people in the frame, have the right framing, and nail the

focus, shooting a lot increases chances of success. The cost of this practice is the massive editing and

post-processing effort that is necessary. I sometimes do focus bracketing, for example, when I shoot at wide

apertures with manual focus, and this leads to additional frames but some of them are better than what I could

get without bracketing.

<p>I sometimes feel that people who do not shoot in the same way think shooting a lot is somehow a lower form of

art than theirs. If I found posed expressions acceptable then I would shoot less, too, but I don't, so I do what

I need to do, to get where I need to be.

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The question in my mind really is: how is it possible to shoot only 500 images during a wedding day, and capture everything that is worthwhile to anyone present? It is only, like the OP said, one shot per minute. Is it that among e.g. 150 people, during a special day like this, only one moment per minute is good enough for an attempt for a worthwhile photograph? I can't really buy that idea. The quality will go up, as you shoot more. It's just a question of how much time you are willing to put into editing.
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Surely you take as many shots as are needed to document the wedding. Everyone will be different in that regard,

just in the same way that every wedding will also be different - there are no rights or wrongs here.

 

But most photographers take several hundred and edit them down to provide a good and complete account of the

wedding day. I usually set a rough editing limit for myself regarding how many images I provide to the couple as it

makes for a decisive editing process and ensures that only my very best work goes forward.

 

The couple will then decide on the photos they want for their album from my selection - I use matted bookbound

albums on the whole, so of course there are limits as to how many images a couple can have in their album - but

this is not usually a problem. However, I also provide the complete post-edit selection on CD nicely presented so that

the couple get the best of both worlds. I find that this balance works well for my clients as well as myself.

 

But I would never limit the number of images that I shoot at a wedding based on album capacity!

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[i was also taking into consideration "the nuisance factor". I mean how many pictures can you take at a wedding,

before you start getting in the way of the wedding ?]

 

Photography is a part of the wedding day - there are times where you have to be assertive and get the required

shots; when you are doing the candids (usually at the bride's house or reception) you have to be able to stand back,

anticipate and then shoot, quickly and quietly. If you start getting worried about always being in the way, you'll never

get your shots (or make any money). That's part of the job, you have to be able to do this.

 

[Combine that with how long are my batteries flash cards and flash head going to last and you are limited, unless

you made arrangements to overcome those obstacles.]

 

Yes - so make those arrangements. Don't limit the B&G's results around your own limitations or laziness. Do the

necessary.

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A photographer who works hard throughout the day, doing the best they can at every moment to

record the emotions, expressions, and events (not just the primary events, but also the expressions of the child

of a friend of the cousin of the bride and the child's grandfathers looks towards the child), will end up with a

higher quality and more comprehensive product than the same photographer who just snaps a few formals & cake

cutting, and packs his bags, enjoying the meal with his camera turned off since they "already got awesome photos,

why bother to do more than is necessary?" There is alwaysroom for improvement. There are always

opportunities to try harder. 500 clicks is just a few shots per person involved. How can you possibly have

recorded all that happens during the day. If you haven't recorded everything you could have, then how can you be

sure that the end result will be as good as it can possibly be? It can't, and it isn't. That doesn't mean it

isnt' great photography, but it's the best it could be.

 

I like film, too. Film vs. digital has nothing at all to do with how much to shoot.

 

 

 

The photographer has been chosen. After the

photographer has been chosen, it is a question of whether the photographer will do his utmost and work hard, or

not. I never said that it is necessary to shoot as much as possible. I think it is good to try to do your best.

Doesn't mean clicking away at all times. I can see a lot more than 1000 pictures in a wedding day. Doesn't mean

that everything works out the way I want to. Doesn't mean that an "adequate" result can't be produced with fewer

shots - I am sure it can be done with 100 images. But an artist never stops looking.

 

 

The quality is also affected by the photographer's willingness to work hard and look at all times.

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I think the quesiton is really up to you. If you do shoot fewer shots than the next photographer than you should

choose the BEST of what you have to offer. I do not offer 4x6 prints at all to my clients. I actually make a hard back

bound book with images printed on the pages. I will give 300+ images in my book. That price is included in my

price for weddings that I shoot. I do agree with the ones who have talked about making the day a story to be told.

My books do not just have images in them. They have the story of the couples day. I will not tell you what I put in

them because I don't want to give away all of my secrets : ) but I will tell you to not only use your eye at a wedding,

but use your ears as well. I take anywhere from 800 to 1000 shots and I devote at least 8 hours to my clients if the

wedding lasts that long. Each photographer is different, that is why there are so many of us to choose from. What I

would say do is with each shot you take plan on it being your BEST image of the day, and with every shot you take

it will make your next one that much better. Keep reaching for perfection! Then once you set down and look at all

the images you took that day, break them down into bad, good, really good, and best. The ones that are your best

will be the ones that you want to offer to your clients. Never let them see ALL of them, because to them everyone of

the images are special. You are the "Boss" so you show them what you want them to see, as well as purchase.

Good luck and I hope I have helped you with your question.

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Harry wrote:

 

`Great answers, I guess you have to be flexible.`

 

There is no guesswork in it my friend. You are in a SERVICE industry. One of the keys to success is being flexible.

 

In this thread I wrote: `Typically, I would take about 400 digital images and around 60 x 645 film images (Formals)`

 

Yet on Jun 22, 2008; 08:13 p.m. I wrote: `I shot more than my average: about 700 frames on digital and 11 rolls of

120 / 645. My Assistant Photographer shot 300 or so digital frames.`

 

[ http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00Pu4Q ]

 

Each Wedding is different and each client has different requests: one of the methods of being `awesome` in the

EYES of THE CLIENT, is to satisfy THEIR needs / requests.

 

The Wedding is about THEM and THEIR wants and needs, IMO.

 

To approach any where near a satisfaction level, there MUST be flexibility.

 

But, on the other hand there are many successful businesses which snap out Wedding Photography with a set

formula: that too is a viable approach.

 

I wrote earlier: `it depends what business you are in` . . . But, typically, from my experience, those businesses which

offer (expensive) Wedding Albums also offer extensive follow through and assistance choosing the images for those

albums.

 

***

 

On another point, but it goes to being flexible, I note with interest Conrad Erb (whom I respect) wrote:

 

`To document the wedding. Dude, just forget albums. That's old school.

 

In my view, the job of the photographer today is not to produce a boring album from a list of photographs.

 

The job is to document the day and help the couple remember it for many, many years.

 

Only half of my couples care about albums. The other half want to have someone who can help them remember their

wedding day.`

 

I think that might have been an unfortunate choice of words.

 

I agree that it is quite silly to approach any Wedding with a list of shots, simply to fill.

 

But IMO it is not very business savvy to on the one hand to state: `just forget albums. That's old school.`

 

and on the other hand acknowledge: `Only half of my couples care about albums`.

 

That seems to imply NOT addressing the cares, wants and needs of half of your clientele.

 

***

 

Personally, I do care how many captures it takes any photographer to get it right for the client.

 

I have seen the results of one particular chap who posts his weddings for comment. The results he posts are indeed

`awesome` by any artistic definition.

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=561384

 

 

 

But, as I understand it, he shoots 2000 + images and from that he uses far fewer, which he digitally edits and is

subsequently the body of his work. That approach to me is just as `awesome` IF it satisfies his CLIENTS . . .

 

To me the `awesome` factor is all about the Client, not what I want, and certainly not what I pre conceive the client

wants, be that decisions on Albums, Documentary coverage, B&W or . . . whatever.

 

But if I cannot suit a prospective client`s needs, such as one who WANTS 2000 images on a CD, and I cannot re

direct their thinking to include the range of services which I do offer, then I do not take on that client. To do so would

be silly.

 

I take a more metered and planned approach to get my outcomes: but then again I take a more metered and planned

approach in that I meet for a few hours with each couple. I might take fewer images than many and that works for

me.

 

But I grew up counting frames I had remaining in each film camera, and planning when I had time to change rolls

(and that is with 15 or 30 frames per roll on 645). So I cut my teeth on careful planning and execution; for example

shooting in sets, for most consistent and easier colour balance in the lab, later.

 

All these methodologies I have transferred to the Digital world. I still use two (and three) cameras, I still shoot in sets.

I still shoot a conservative number of images, (by modern `digital` standards). I still shoot a conservative number of

Weddings (about two a month, on contract, not for myself anymore). Personally I do not consider myself an

`awesome` artist. And I do consider that there are `awesome` artists that have taken the Digital Medium and

developed much of their `awesome` results in the Digital Editing Room, but that does not deny they have the

`awesome` eye through the viewfinder either, to consistently get good product to work with, in the first place.

 

I prefer to extend myself and get it better at the front end of the production line, and spend less time (and money)

editing (specifically culling, not digitally enhancing).

 

If that is `Old School`, so be it.

 

It works for me, and more importantly it works for my clients, and they pay the account, they have to be happy.

 

WW

 

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I think the question is not about how many you shoot.

 

The question is more about how many you "see" and then shoot.

 

Some people are talented at "seeing" the photo ... some of those talented people like to see and shoot 2000 images at a wedding and others like to see and shoot 700.

 

All levels of talent and abilities exist ... there is no "right" way or right number.

 

Could it be more about artistic style and preference and the photographers energy level and vision? I don't see that the number matters at all.

 

Does the end product emotionally move the bridal couple and family? That's the winning formula ... and the bridal couple and family should have inspected the photographers portfolio ahead of time so they are educated on the style of the photographer they invite to the celebration to shoot whatever the number of images that he/she "sees".

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We actually do not offer set prices or packages. Every couple is unique therefore we cater to what they want. Some wedding couples have a small budget yet others what the works, such as engagement photos, sign in boards, 2 or more parent albums, there own album, several wall size, framed, prints, wallets to put in the thank you cards.

 

I have a 1 hour wedding this weedend. Who knows what they will buy, if anything. Actually I'm having someone else in the studio shoot the wedding. I was hired to photograph a motorcycle race. This will be a nice break from weddings.

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Now, I have

spent sometimes as a Videographer and when I did, I videoed at 30 frames per second. As a Wedding Photographer,

I would never try to capture an event like a video. To be honest, most people would not complain about a video

that was shot at 15 frames per second, so a photographer who shoot 20 frames per second, is in the wrong

profession.

 

Now with all that said, lets take a look at what we are really saying. During a very special and sacred moment

during

your bride's and groom's wedding, they are concentrating on every word the officiant is saying. However, they

are distracted by this noise coming from the shutter of the professional photographer's camera. This is the

person that is suppose to capture every detail of their wedding day and preserve their happy moments. But,

instead of adding to the joy of the day, their photographer is clicking faster then the Minister can talk. What

they do not realize is the photographer believes that they must shoot hundreds of photos to be sure they get it

right. What they do not realize is, their photographer has no clue what is good and what is not. What they do

not realize is their photographer is hoping to get it right by snapping everything and anything. What they do

not realize is they hired the wrong photographer.

 

Here is my take on this discussion and then I will leave it to rest. Harry asked a question that many other's

should have asked before they called themselves wedding photographers. When clients hire wedding photographers,

they do it for several reasons. The first reason is based on budget. If you have the right price, then you are

hired. The second reason is word of mouth. If someone refers you, they are more likely to hire you too. Third

is quality. If you have the style and quality that your client is looking for, then you are the one. Very few

clients ask how many photos will you produce. If they did, then I would state, as many as

you want to purchase. This may sound bad, but I was married 25 years ago, and I received 20 photos in my wedding

album. Those 20 photos tell the story and I am very thankful today that we hired a professional. I use that

album as my standard today. It is an awesome wedding album because it was professionally produced. I think this

should be our goal. We should produce a professional product that our clients can rave about.

 

This is what I tell my bride and groom. I tell them that, if their great-grandkids are not fighting over their

wedding album

when they die, then I did not do a good job.

 

Well, I can shout now and a tell all that will hear. My wedding

photographer was a true professional and if I had to hire someone to photograph my wedding today, I would hire

him all over. Just as it was stated so well before, quantity does not equal quality.

 

George

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I do not agree with the people who saying that they shoot 300 and get print only 100 or 150, if you are going to print only about 125-150 hten you should be able to click the best 170 odd shots only, you are photographer, not a editer, who just knows wha to delete or what to include... Earlier when film was only the medium, every photo taken was get printed and that was the golden period of photography, where photographers did knew that what to click or not, they only used to utilized their skills behind the cameras.... not behind the computer screens,

 

suppose, if you are going to shoot 5 or 6 contigues weddings, will you afford the time behind the computers to edit the scraps, which just happened because now you have stopped thinking so much before clicking a photograph......??????

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OUCH, touchy question. Some wedding photographers are shutter happy, then they have a extra shooter. I saw this bride's album, she had 97 shots during the ceremony. A normal, traditional ceremony. 97, should be 15 or 20. . After someone looks 500 photos, they lose interest. I will admit, I am from the old school of wedding photography, carefully posed, ties/flowers/dresses straight, backgrounds clean, & correctly shot. BUT I really do enjoy more artistic wedding photography than posed. Also, having shot medium format film cameras @ $1.00+ per click, I am still mindful of everytime I shoot a pose. I am 90% digital now, will be 100% by the end of the summer,,,I sure will miss my hasselbald,,,

But to finally answer your question, my experience is that some, not all brides do not want 500-1000 pics, I have some that all they want is 100-150 poses,,,

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Yes, the correct answer depends on what the bride wants and that should be determined well in advance of the wedding day. Those brides who want only the traditional posed shots along with the bread and butter ceremony/reception shots usually want far less than those who prefer a more photojournalistic style with lots of candids and detail shots. Of course you can only shoot so many traditional shots but the opportunity for candids is endless because people do amazing things every minute of the day and especially at weddings.
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<i>There are only so many key moments. </i>

<p>

But I am not talking about "key" moments. I am talking about making extraordinary images of human character, where people are portrayed in such a way that the guests will say "this is the best picture of my son/friend/cousin/father I've ever had". How could you capture the character of a person you've never met before in such a way? There are many other people at a wedding apart from the "key players". And they're also interested in high quality images of themselves - just being themselves, as opposed to playing a silly role accoriding to some tradition. And the reactions of people to the key events can so often be more interesting than what you call the key events themselves.

<p>

<i>I have every one of them sharp, in focus, and in the air so it looks like they are flying. </i>

<p>

That's great. Weddings are different. Can you tell what that child is going to say to his mom, and what is her reaction, because all of that is going to affect the subsequent expressions that you may or may not want to record. Can you really predict what people are going to do?

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