hassy501 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 How many shooters do you use for your wedding coverage and if it is multiple shooters, how does this affect yourbottom line ? I occasionally use seconds but only on my top packages.........never on smaller jobs. Yet i know of weddingphotographers who bring along 2 and 3 shooters who are charging 1000.00 for an all day coverage .......that iscrazy......how can they make any "real" money doing that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverhaas Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 George - My guess is the the 2nd makes less than $50 per hour and a 3rd is doing it for free ...to get experience. I'm the same as you...99% of the time it's just me, the other 1% is for my top end stuff. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassy501 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 Hmmm.......shooting for free.......is that something prevalent in the industry ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_clark___minnetonka_mi Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I always have an associate photographer at each wedding. My web site gives some reasons for this and is further explained during the initial client meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassy501 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 Bill, do you pay your shooter and how does that affect your bottom line in your market and what you sell ? Do you have to increase your pricing to cover the cost ? Are the additional images you get worth the cost ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_clark___minnetonka_mi Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Of course I pay my associate photographers as they are all quality artists. One of my associates, at a recent wedding, walked into the ladies getting ready room and walked up to the bride and said, "I know you! I did your HS Senior pictures." Out of the corner of her eye she could see tha maid of honor getting ready and said, "I know you too! I was the photographer for your wedding." This is an important piece to my business. I serve on the board of the TCPPA and Am quite active with them. Many benefits of belonging to an organization like this, I've got friends because of the TCPPA and I also have the ability to watch for prospective people who could help build my business. We are successful because we operate as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_hovland Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I'm promoting the concept of two always. Weddings are a one shot deal. The next day the food is gone and the flowers are wilted. The photographs are the memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_kinosh Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 1, and if the reception is large, my wife will be shooting some candids. 100% to the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The trend in our market, seems to be leaving no room for second shooters, next year . We pay between $125-75 hr for additional photographers > but, I can usually cover a 4-6 hour wedding by myself. That second shooter is not really going to capture that many "extra" images >>> necessary to justify their assistance. And ...it takes considerable time to train them :: in the style you are offering your B&G . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_hovland Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 For the average wedding - $30,000 or so - two shooters is hard to justify. At the upper end, $100,000 and up, you probably need an established team to be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I use 0 shooters, and would use 0 shooters if I was charging the most money. It is easy to pick up eager photographers (young and old) wanting to become wedding photographers who will shoot for free. Whether they add anything to your offering to your client is sometimes questionable, and they 'could' be a liability. One would think that if you are paying a second decent money, you are getting decent money from your client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 FYI: http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00PtUM For the last two jobs, (October) I did not used my Assistant Photographer - unusual, but an economic imperative for the size of the coverage and fee the studio charged. WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I use a second/assistant all the time. It's not a consideration for me. I have to have someone near who can in a pinch get the shot or run for a new lens as my 35/1.4 just hit the floor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anna_bravington Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Always have a second. Love having them. They can get different shots that I can't, we can be in 2 places at once, if anything happend to any of my shots there will be backups, if i died in a car accident on the way - there would still be a photographer there! It's a personal choice but I feel more secure with a second and love having someone to bounce ideas off. Usually my second shooters have done a few of their own weddings, but not as many as me. They are always great fun. I pay them, the amount depends on what I'm getting paid. It's entirely up to them whether they want to do it or not at the price I offer. I try to be fair though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassy501 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 I guess alot of it depends on what market you are in......... and for experienced wedding shooters, it doesn't seem to be that necessary as opposed to newer insecure wedding photographers.........from what i've just read ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassy501 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 Bill, could you absolutely cover a wedding by yourself if you had to and be successful or would you NEED that second ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I've done both and have covered more on my own rather than with a second shooter. There's certainly advantages to having a second camera but the acid-test comes down to dollars and cents. Does the cost of a 2nd camera bring more sales in reprints? (typically not) Does the extra dimesion in depth of coverage justify the additional cost? Depends on the clients.....Most of them are happy to save a few hundred dollars after looking at the coverage from several examples from weddings I did solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Probably had 10 second shooters >> since 1980. Just not a PJ style coverage in my package. If I didn't see the shot >> I didn't miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 > I guess alot of it depends on what market you are in < Yes I agree that is a factor, though I would word it: ``depends to what market your are selling``. *** > and for experienced wedding shooters, it doesn't seem to be that necessary as opposed to newer insecure wedding photographers < As kindly as I can state it: If one is so insecure in one`s own ability to need an additional Photographer, then, IMO one should not be the Lead Photographer, nor taking the Client`s money. WW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjaminoliverhicks Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 What about just wanting a second shooter so you can mentor them? I have been considering offering my services to a wedding photographer for some time. I have no prior experience, which is why I would work for free, but it since "for experienced wedding shooters, it doesn't seem to be that necessary as opposed to newer insecure wedding photographers," I am reconsidering. I don't want to work under someone who is insecure or inexperienced. So where would I start, if all the experienced wedding photographers don't want inexperienced second shooters or don't want second shooters at all? Does nobody take on the task of passing on the trade anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassy501 Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 I'm sure there are many pros willing to mentor........but in this current economy where weddings are being scaled back, brides are choosing smaller coverages, there is a glut of "wedding" photographers, it's tough training the future competition..............As I suspect most wedding pros got started, we just went out and did it.......probably had some other type of photography background, used THAT to move into weddings, covered small jobs, some for free, maybe relatives, friends, then moved forward from there............. I personally know many "wedding" photographers who are making money, with no formal training.......selling yourself is as much a part of the profession as the actual work. Second shooting is a great way to learn if you can get those gigs........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 In the earlier days > it was film. Way too costly to "experiment." One had to shoot somewhat towards a degree of perfection. Not a fix it later attitude. The newer second shooters, that approach us, seeming do not understand :: manual exposure, manual flash, even using a hand meter... ? We spend very little time correcting images in post and the 2nd shooter has to be willing to have training > in the above departments...to save us that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_clark___minnetonka_mi Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 "Bill, could you absolutely cover a wedding by yourself if you had to and be successful or would you NEED that second ?" Sure I could cover a wedding by myself. For me, it's part of my business that I show the advantages to prospective clients at our first and subsequent meetings with them. When the ladies are getting ready I can work with the men. If I'm near the front for the ceremony then she can be in the back and balcony. Some beautiful pictures can be created just before dad walks her down the aisle. There are quite a few other situations where I can tell the story better with an associate photographer. Just what I offer. It's not right or wrong but it's what I do. Clients seem to like it. Maybe that's just a piece of my business that helps me get new clients w/o any print advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 George, reading your original question, I am curious if you can charge enough to cover the cost on a "higher end" wedding, and you would like to have a second all the time, why don't you just charge more for your "lower end" packages. Just enough to cover it. ?? I on the other hand, could not possibly work alone,....just to insecure :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_hovland Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Dennis Reggie talks about "10% of the total budget for photography/video." So I think George has it about right- at a certain price point- budget point- you can charge enough to pay 2 shooters well. You just need to find the clients that have the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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