neinlives Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Here's the rundown: I'm 23, a senior in college, a salaried web developer, and have ambitions to start my own design/photography business. Problem: I am a pretty decent web developer but lack the photographic experience to really stab out as a professional photographer in any capacity. I have a very real interest in becoming involved in wedding photography but have no clue of how to break in. I realize that I shouldn't even bother shooting a wedding if he doesn't know what the h*ll I'm doing, but how will I ever know what I'm doing if I don't get a start? I want to stress this again: I'm not looking to just jump in and mess up someone's memories, so, again, I want to be highly prepared. What steps can I take now to get up and running over the next, say, six months to a year? Is this an unreasonable timeline? What kind of equipment will I need? Here's what I have so far: - 1) Nikon D80 - 1) 50mm f/1.8 Nikkor lens Here's what I'd like to add: - 1) Nikon D200 (or possibly just another D80, because I hear it is just as good as the D200) - 1) 10.5mm f/2.8G ED AF DX Fisheye-Nikkor - 1) 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor - 1) 70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor And possibly: - 1) 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor I realize that I will require other equipment, as well, (e.g, flashes, etc.), but I'm not sure just what. Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john schroeder Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 I would contact some local wedding photographers and see if they need an assistant to help with some weddings. Craig's list is a good place to check. Some fast zooms such as the 17-55 f2.8 and the 80-200 f2.8 would be usefull. If you prefer primes then I would get a second body and keep a 35 f2.0 on one and your 50mm f1.8 on the other. Get a 20mm f2.8 and an 85mm f1.8. You will need a flash bracket and an SB-600 or SB-800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybeach Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 If I were you, I would definitely hold off on making decisions about gear and concentrate on getting experience working with established and experienced wedding photographers. Learn what you can from one, then take that experience and get a job with another one and learn some more from them -- two good apprenticeships should be adequate (unless one or both of them are deficient). You need to learn how to take a photograph and how to make a photograph; but most importantly, you need to learn the business. The smartest thing I heard a photographer in one of these forums say is that to be a successful photographer you need plenty of lighting and a good business plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliot1 Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 There is no 'right' way to do it, but If I were starting out today and wanted a quick, good start, I would contact local photographers, explain your situation and offer to be a 2nd (or 3rd) shooter at no charge. After you get your feet wet and get good at it, you will have a better idea of what direction you need/want to take. Read the wedding forum on photo.net - you can pick up a lot a information there. As far as equipment goes, if you have a low budget right now, you need to add two items - a wide angle zoom and a flash. For flash, you want the sb-800. The 18-55 will get you started and actually give you really good results. If money is not an issue, get the 17-55 2.8 and the sb-800. There is obviously more that you will need, but you have to start somewhere. The d200 and d80 basically give the same results. I just bought the d80 as a backup to my d200. I had my 2nd shooter use it for a wedding I shot last week. I tried it out for a brief time during the reception and found no difference in pictures from the d200. The d200 has a few more features than the d80, but most are features that you may not use for a wedding. The new Fuji S5 may be your best choice for your next camera. There was a post about it by Anthony a few days ago with some really good information and links to a helpful review. Best advise is don't give up your day job for a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 There's an entire forum on photo.net dedicated to wedding photography. And within that forum is a section devoted to questions by newcomers. Here's the archive: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a?topic_id=2021&category=First+Timer+and+Newcomers+to+Wedding+Photog%2e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifer_durand Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 I agree with John. Get an unpaid or paid job with a wedding photographer for a start to carry his/her bags. Don't present yourself as an aspirant wedding photographer you might not be that well received or get the job. Watch and learn. At the same time you might want to take a photography course at your local college. So many wedding photographers use Hasselblad medium format as one of their cameras and have a digital SLR as a second. Don't buy equipment until you know what you are getting into. Wedding photographs are usually the most precious. They can never be shot again and you only have moments to get the different shots required which means you need to be able to think and act quickly. Knowing your equipmenet is vital. Wedding photographers go out with back up cameras in case of failure. Extra batteries and ability to recharge on site is a valuable asset. Many brides want you to be able to e-mail images from the reception and some may even want prints at the reception. To do a wedding properly and grow from referrals you need to be very good and not disappoint. Many brides want video and still photography are you prepared to work with a videographer standing in your way or having to constantly ask him to move. To avoid situations like this its best to have aa good working relationship with a videographer. As soon as a wedding photographer sets up a shot the guests then grab the same shots with their point and shoot cameras. They go home and before you have even taken your shoes off send these images to the bride and groom. The happy couple often then compare the guests photographs to the wedding photographerrs. Wedding photography is difficult and frustrating for many reasons. The bridal couple are far more picky after they have spent themselves on honeymoon and your photos arrive. If you haven't been very professional you could find outstanding monies are hard to get. I had a thriving business for years taking unhappy couples for "re-shoots" of wedding photographs at dreamy locations or in the studio. This only possible if she is able to get into the wedding gown. I provided them with something they could show family and friends with confidence where her facial expression was good each time. I used to spend a half day getting these photographs - wedding photographers do it on the hop so there is no contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 "Get an unpaid or paid job with a wedding photographer for a start to carry his/her bags. Don't present yourself as an aspirant wedding photographer you might not be that well received or get the job." Just exactly how would one present themselves then? As someone who likes to spend Saturdays volunteering, for no apparent reason, to carry other people's bags for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_erwin1 Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 You don't mention what photography you currently do, so I would suggest shooting other events--less critical--on your own, too, so you could develop the feel for pacing and working with people. Family reunions, kids' birthday parties, renaissance festivals, county fairs, or any such events that interest you. Learning to document those kinds of events will make you a better wedding photographer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennifer_durand Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 John, as an assistant. There is nothing the matter with offering your services in lieu of experience. This type of apprenticeship is common. There is also nothing wrong with volunteering your services either. In the UK this is an accepted method for gaining experience and many people volunteer part time and full time to assist themselves - having something to do, or to help others. It's not all about money. Ron's idea is excellent too. You should start modestly and work your way up to where you want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Gee Jennifer, I didn't say or imply that there was anything wrong with trading services for experience, volunteering in general or that money was even an issue. I only asked about how one would explain themselves as wanting give away services for free to a wedding photographer other than the obvious reason that they want to be a wedding phtographer themselves one day. It would be a perfectly normal occurance in the UK for a total stanger to approach a wedding photographer and ask to carry their bags and perform other work at their shoots for free just to have "something to do"? OK, if you say so. Just about everywhere else the only normal reason would be obvious which is because it is a way to gain experience. If the volunteer presented themselves as having other reasons, they would be seen as decietful (which would be an accurate conclusion if your suggestion is followed) or as being a potential psycho. Either way they would be shown the door. In the real world, when people volunteer hours of work merely to help others, they help freinds, needy causes, community events, political figures and groups and so on. Wedding photographers? Pretty much never. If anyone wants to volunteer service to a wedding phptographer in order to gain experience don't try to do so under false pretenses because you won't trusted and will be turned away. Except in the UK apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshranwest Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 My advice, and advice I have heard from a lot of photographers, is pick one. Photography OR design. Not both. If you do web design and photography, it makes you look like a web designer with not much to do. Just my opinion (and a lot of others). My advice on actually breaking into the business, is assist like a lot of people have done. Get your feet wet and after you are confident in your abilities, go solo. I would also do a few free weddings after you go solo, just to make absolutely sure, then start charging. Word of mouth is your best advertisement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neinlives Posted July 7, 2007 Author Share Posted July 7, 2007 Thanks for sharing your opinions, everyone. I really do appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_s. Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Michael, I would say these are the areas you need to work on becoming proficient at: * Photographic skills * Computer skills (digital darkroom, workflow) * People skills * Business skills If you're starting from scratch I would guess that 6-12 months is not enough time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie_caswell Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 If you are good, chase Craigslist brides while getting the needed experience working for a pro (the biggest key IMHO to gaining the needed experience) you could in 12-18 months. It's taken me a little over two years from start to my bridal fair next month. Honestly have you considered second shooting for extra income? Running a business (my real job isn't photography) is tough enough. Getting into weddings has been expensive, time consuming, and there is no end in sight to either. Personally if I had to do over (and I'm considering a different direction) would be portraiture, and second shoot for a studio or three. Less gear requirements, more money per hour. To net $1000 per wedding, I need to charge $3000. Your looking at 40 hours from start to finish, which only a quarter of that is actual photography. Digital has led to a growth in photographers and made it something of a commodity, open to negotiation and the whims of people who think they are making money undercutting the competition doing shoot and burns for $500. A quality second shooter (or primary shooter for an established studio) making $50+ per hour could likely net that without all the headaches of running a business. You are young and in a prime position to leverage time. Keep your day job, save for a house, live within your means, and stuff every dime into 401K and IRA's. By age 45 you would be a millionaire with lots of options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg jansen Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Robbie, you are so right on all points. Digital has more than doubled the amount of time post-processing. Many don't take that into consideration. Yes, charge $3000 to make $1000 sounds about right. It is right in line with the PPA studio survey. Last year was interesting at tax time. My assistant actually made more money than me when you break it down into hourly rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_thielen Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Break into wedding photography - first step, get to be real good with your camera shooting everything else. In other words - if you need to come to a site like this and ask what camera lens combination to use, you don't know enough about basic photography to even begin considering doing weddings. So that is where you start - learning your equipment. How do you learn your equipment - easy - take it out and use it, and read BOOKS, real honest to goodness books, on photography (not the crap you can pick up on the internet). Not just on wedding photography, but on lighting, on exposure, on composition. Everything you can get your hands on that deals with photography. Shoot exclusively in Black and White for at least a year. Black and white teaches you to see light and contrast in a way that color never will. Read and study Ansel Adams Look at photographs, and try and figure out how they were taken, what lens was used, where where they standing, were there any additional lighting, and if so, where were they and how were they used. And this one is going to bring screams of terror from most - don't try and fix it after the fact in photoshop. Learn to get it right the first time in the camera. Also work on your timing - a split second can make the difference between great, adequate, and crap. Best way to practice timing is to shoot sports. No matter where you live, you should be able to find kids sports teams - baseball, hockey, lacrosse, soccer, basketball. All of them need split second timing to catch the peak of the action. When you can do consistemly well exposed, well composed, well timed sport shots, they you can confidently go do any wedding you want with whatever equipment you have at the time, and know that you will come back with keepers. How long should it take - the only answer to that is - As long as it takes. For some it might be days or weeks, others years, still others, never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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