Help with unreasonable portrait client

<p>I have a question regarding an unhappy portrait client. She has some issues (personal and with her plastic surgery) and I knew she was going to be a tough customer.<br>

She was referred by a friend who did warn me, but I did the best I could and the photos came out pretty well, I have had another photog look at them and agree there are some good ones.<br>

I travelled 3 hrs (rt) and spent 3 hrs with her (listening to her whine about her plastic surgery also), hates her smile, etc.<br>

Anyway she liked many shots that I previewed with her day of the shoot, but when she saw them full screen shes unhappy with her looks (wanted to look the way she did BEFORE surgery oh well).<br>

She paid me $200 and now wants a refund cause shes unhappy.<br>

I feel like i spent way more time than paid for, I should just cash the check and send her a CD.<br>

She needs a good shrink not a better photographer.<br>

I used Portrait Pro to clean up a few images to remove wrinkles etc and she did NOT want me to do that, she said she should look good based on all the work she has had done etc.<br>

So the issue is really NOT about the photos, its her and her issues.<br>

How would you all recommend I proceed, do I give her any money back?<br>

I am gonna wait a few days and see if she cools off and sees things any clearer.</p>

<p>Thanks for your advice.</p>

<p> </p>

[Link deleted by moderator]

<p>As McCoy might say, 'damn it Jim, I'm a photographer, not a magician"</p>

<p>You delivered a good set of images and fulfilled your contract. It's not your fault the surgeon didn't do a great job nor are you a shrink. On some level, I think her desire for money back is desire for tacit acknowledgment that her surgery didn't meet her dreams.</p>

<p>Mark,</p>

<p>Run away from this one like an Olympic sprinter! </p>

<p>Immediately record all correspondence in paper form (no emails as they can be altered) and have it on file with your attorney or in a lock box at your bank. Write down your recollections of everything that has happened up until now and keep that with the rest of the documentation. Keep copies of all checks either way. Refund her money NOW so you are behaving in a timely way and keep a hard copy of the proofs in case you are ever challenged. Be sure you have current contact info on the friend who warned you and make notes on the complaints the client said about her surgeon.</p>

<p>This woman is running scared from her own body and the aging process and may well blame anyone for her disappointments...real or imagined. You are in her sights right now and the ONLY smart thing you can do is get out of the way. Trying to reason this out or argue it out would be like baiting a pit bull. Put it behind you and send the refund check (certified for better records through the bank) in a nice card expressing your sincere hope that she will find what she wants with another photographer. Make a copy of the card before you mail it by certified mail so you have a delivery receipt.</p>

<p>By the way, she already gave you a hint of her past problems referencing all of "work she has had done before". She has never been satisfied, never will be satisfied and you need to move on to other customers who are better grounded for your own happiness. </p>

<p>Finally, be very grateful that his is the digital age so you are basically only out your time and a little bit of travel expense. In the days of film and proofing, you would have had possibly $100 or more of outright expenses plus all the extra mailing and lab time to have eaten.</p>

<p>In the future, for all clients, you might have a brief interview before the date of the session in which you discuss with the subject what they like best and least about their looks. Then play up the good stuff and down play the bad in you posing and lighting.</p>

<p>Good luck with this.</p>

<p>Tim</p>

<p>It looks to me like you've posted all the photos from the entire shoot. Some of these are slightly out-of-focus (including the 1st and 2nd pictures in the set).</p>

<p>It may be your policy to be completely open with your clients and share all of the shots, even the outtakes, but your problems might be alleviated if you comb through your shots and eliminate the blurry takes before posting for the client to see them. Some non-photographers expect that professional results are 100% perfect 100% of the time. What they don't understand is that part of being a professional is knowing what to show, and what to throw away. Trash the blurry pics, and it will give the entire body of work the appearance of improvement.</p>

<p>Also, you might want to take the 3 or 4 best poses and clean up her skin so she doesn't look so....imperfect. You're not a magician, but a little flattery can go a long way. Put the 4 really good ones first, so that when she looks at the online gallery her first impression is, "This photographer is a genius!"</p>

<p>I'm with Tim...$200 just isn't enough money for all the hassel she could put you through. Give her back the money and fix up a contract for future use that includes a fixed non-refundable shooting fee. You may not want to use such a contract all the time, but if you have any indication that a future client might be a problem, get it signed.</p>

<p>Thanks to all, she did NOT like several photos i retouched (not on here) and didn't want that.<br>

I did speak with her ahead of time and didn't promise I could work miracles. She was comfortable with me during the shoot, we had fun and she initially DID like some of the shots.<br>

I guess i should have walked away knowing she was expecting a miracle of some sort.<br>

I am not worried about being sued, I may just return her check and be done with it, thanks.</p>

<p>Mark -</p>

<p>1. Do as suggested above - send her a check for the $200.00 (certified check) and sent it return receipt / signature required. Yeah - it will cost you about $10.00 to do this, but will save you in the long run.</p>

<p>2. Request that the moderator pull this thread. Your issue is now saved for all Googledom to see - along with photos of a client that isn't happy with them.</p>

<p>3. Pull her photos from your site. Burn a copy to dvd and send to her with the check. Burn another copy and save it someplace. Delete the photos from your hard drive. Don't use them in any way shape or form.</p>

<p>4. Tighten up the contract to avoid this in the future. Be clear on a non-refundable sitting fee.</p>

<p>As others have pointed out -she is trying (in vain) to fight Mother Nature. She is not happy with the surgery or the results - or has a different mental image of herself than the camera shows. There is no way you can keep the money and make this person happy.</p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

<p>Really? I would have said she deserves half at best. She needs to understand a refund would imply you didn't show up or didn't take pictures--sounds to me like you did your job and it is unreasonable of her to expect you to make nothing for your time.</p>

<p>Thanks Theresa, thats how I responded, giving her some time to think it over, hopefully she will chill and negotiate a compromise. <br>

David - why would I still send her a CD if she demands a refund?</p>

 

<p>It's $200 and I don't think either way is an issue--small claims court on her part at best and then she would be "seen" in public! I am not saying I wouldn't send her money back, but good Lord, this isn't a cause for great concern!</p>

<p>I think sending her her money back would be a humane gesture, let her live with her own stuff and extricate yourself. And if she has any issue, it will be posting her photos anywhere--so yes, have the link here removed and take down any shots of her elsewhere out of respect. I think the rest of the thread here could be instructive to others and her name or identity doesn't exist except through the photo link.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>Mark,</p>

<p>Those of us who are advising you to get this woman's refund to her NOW, are not on her side. We are on yours! </p>

<p>If you respond to this immediately and as described for all the reasons being for your own protection, you are being very pro-active and getting out of the way of a potential train wreck. If you try to wait her out, hoping she will somehow see reason, you are being hopeful and foolish and giving her ammunition to use in the highest court in the land....public opinion. Don't worry about small claims court, or circuit court, or a kangaroo court. It's the public who make the judgments that can kill your business and she could easily get their ear. If you don't believe me, watch a few episode of any of the daytime talk show and see the poor pitiful wronged people who screwed themselves up and who are now blaming everyone else in sight for their woes....and getting all the sympathy.</p>

<p>You hold off, she has reason to complain to family and friends who may have the ear of others who could be your potential clients somewhere down the road. She will have their sympathetic ear because they know her and may not know you. You are just the guy who isn't being responsive and therefore you are the bad guy....true or not....you wear the label. That kind of rumor tree grows faster than you might imagine and it is remembered.</p>

<p>It's up to you to put her in the only position that will favor you and that is to GET THIS BEHIND YOU! The money is almost irrelevant. It's your reputation you have to worry about. You are in business, so protect yourself like a good business person should. The sooner you do this, the safer you are and the quicker you get it off you mind and your back.</p>

<p>Get it done so you can move on. If you don't get it done, it will eat at you internally if not externally until you almost can't let it go. It's time to move forward. It's the only way you will win.</p>

<p> You should refund her money and walk away. Give her the pictures and ask to have this thread taken down immediately. Learn something from this for the future.</p>

 

<p>MODERATOR - please remove this thread and link</p>

<p>Thanks to all for your support and input - is there a more formal way to ask for this to be removed?</p>

<p>On another note, is there anything in particular she isn't happy with in the images. As pointed out, some aren't in focus, others have too shallow a DoF, and for me the skin tones could be better. I am not saying that isn't her natural skin tone, but people seldom want to see themselves how they look, they want to see themselves as they imagine they look! I might have done a CWB using a warm card. On the black backdrop we even go from a very cool tone to a very warm tone which is very distracting at least. The lighting overall seems pretty flat to me. I might have wanted very soft lighting to smooth things out, but I would still want a direction of light for some shaping. You traveled one and half hours for a portrait shoot, what did she want? A 16x20 for the living room, an 8x10 for the bedroom? What was the goal? When I look at the images I really get a sense that we were trying a little bit of everything. I am not sure how much time was spent, but for me to get all of those looks/poses would have been several hours worth of shooting and setting up lights and so on. I bring it up because it hints at throwing mud against the wall and seeing what sticks. Where you paid $200 to come out a get a specific portrait or where you paid $200 to come out and take pictures? There's a difference. It also sets a certain tone/expectation. I suppose what I am suggesting is to see it through the eyes of the client and think what could I have done to make it better? And maybe the answer is nothing, I don't know. If it were me, and I wanted to keep the $200, I would offer a reshoot. But I would firmly establish the goal of the shoot, the purpose of the image(s) (large print framed on the wall? etc).</p>

<p>And I do agree that I would take the images down. Your name is searchable in Google and this thread could come up!</p>

<p>After I posted last, I did go back and look through all the work you posted, all of it not just the first one as I had done already. There are probably a handful of images that really flatter her and several that are very bad as to either lighting, focus or expression etc. Some of the flattering ones really need some hair clean up and maybe some other work as well, just to make them that much more. I don't say any of this as a criticism (as we all get bad shots because we try something that doesn't work!) except that I think you should, in general, reconsider what you post for clients to see. Become an artist and post only those you think really represent you in the best light, which will also be those that show your client in the best light as well. Two things are accomplished, first, the client doesn't see the duds--and there are duds in the group and they will be their focus(embarrassment). Second, you can honestly and enthusiastically present your photos to the client--any hesitation or doubt about any image on your part just sinks you with the client's confidence.</p>

<p>I read way too much here on these sites about "having" to show the client all the work, that is totally ridiculous as you will only be as good as your worst image in the eyes of the client. I certainly am not saying that you could have pleased this client, but it would be a good practice to get into, showing only the best!</p>

<p>PS I also think that some of the better shots really leave her no room to complain, she looks great in those!</p>

<p>Agree with David about what you should do now.</p>

<p>In the future, heres some helpfull idea;</p>

<p>1_make clear that transportation is base on a .40$/km (or 1$/miles) that should already get thing moving</p>

<p>2_client appointement should be also bill, define yourself what you worht per hours for a shoot (let say 125$/hre) and charge 50% of this or a flat rate.. like 250$ to meet a client.</p>

<p>3_never talk about retouching with a client who your about to take picutre of.. they dont need to know that you use this or that software. If they ask, simply answer that in your basics images capture no retouching other than minimal fix will be done for free, and color density / contrast will be done..basically you will give them a nice well exposed shot.</p>

<p>4_if they want retouching other than that, lips fixing, eyes fixing, pimple etc.. you should charge the client for that, define your own price depending on how good you think you are.. many photographer i know charge per image a flat rate of 20$ but dont do extensive chirugical amelioration.. portrait professional could be a quick recipe to get 20$ per final images.</p>

<p>5_Youre right, you are not a magician or a therapist.. so next time, make sure you clearly define what you can and cant do with a client. A client that come to me with a unhappy plastic chirurgy done, and ask to make her look like she was before will be politely return to the door, or a clear discusion about why i cant put her back like she was but make her the best out of what she is now is possible.</p>

<p>6_200$ is nothing for all that, you could and should have charge her at least 200$ just to move yourself to her, another 150$ for the talk, or charge her 150$ more than what you tought of charging her for a 2hres session (being around 250$ normally, so 150$ more ) so something around 400$, no retouching included. So around 500$ should have been ask, 50% before any click to cover your a** and a non refundable one of course. Then on delivery the other 250$.</p>

<p>You think 500$ is way too much for what you have to offer.. well you can also start selling shoes for 10$/hre in that case.. truth be told, you have equipment to pay and house to pay.. by doing a 200$ gig you are not helping yourself or the market.. and this is why you end up having client like that .. not ready to spend more than 200$ on portrait, but ready to fight you till the end of time to get it back.</p>

<p>Walk away with your pride, give her the money back, dont give her anything else (certainly not the image) advice her that you will get all the image destruct so she doestn have to worry about that since she dont like them they are of no use for you or her. and continue your journey ; )</p>

<p>Oh by the way..</p>

<p>a_never take a woman that age so close up, specially one that doestn like her face.</p>

<p>b_dotn take a portrait of a female from above it make them gain weight.. not good for you and her.</p>

<p>c_a lot of your image are out of focus, not just soft, major red cast, block shadow.. be carefull of the basic before thinking charging someone for your service.</p>

<p>d_make sure she is well make up and that her hairs are brush correctly, on many image she look like a tornado have past over her before you click.</p>

<p>e_a woman of that age need to be taken more sofisticated.. she is not 20 and she doestn look 20.. so just be carfull with the sleeping on her stomac with feet bend .. it give her a cheap look and the feet look like 2 rabbit ears.. not good looking.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Get to know a professional makeup artist. They can work wonders with difficult clients - especially ones that are very concerned about their face & skin. Work the cost of the makup artist into your contract and if you want pursue more work of this type, you'll find they're worth every penny in client relations and the final work. Your work was fine there are 3 or 4 that are really good.</p>

<p>Mark -</p>

<p>My answer to provide her with the images and a full refund was based upon providing her with the best possible customer service and hopefully salvaging something out of the relationship. </p>

<p>If there are sides to be chosen (and I don't think there are really) I with you... Sometimes we get clients that are just not happy - no matter what we do. I had one of them recently... No matter what I did - she was not happy with her children's photos - I reprinted 3 times - last time I even sent them to a lab to be "lab" corrected for color - I got a phone call from her saying that their skin tones where still not right and she wanted a full refund. I provided that to her, in addition telling her that she could keep the "bad" photos and do what she wanted with them... didn't hear from her again - but I sleep better at night knowing that I did all I could to make it right for her.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I suggested she contact her hair dresser and a professional makeup artist, she declined.<br>

She wanted these for an online dating site and the more formal head shots for her business card.<br>

These are NOT edited, I wanted to give her a quick look but obviously that was a bad idea.<br>

I did NOT use a contract cause shes a "friend of a friend" and I didnt think this would become contentious.<br>

Writing it off and moving on, thanks all.</p>

 

<p>Refund immediately. The Lady may/is difficult..The pix I see though are not what I consider good portraits.I am not talking about colors or focus. The lack of definite poses.They all look kinda very casual.Maybe thats what was ordered.With digital shooting one can do so many more things.Change poses, backgrounds, outfits,lighting.It costs no more, except time. You are to close to the tree to see the forest. We don't all shoot good all the time.I had a difficult client some years back. If "it" starts badly, it will end worse. Chalk it to experience..Photoshop not a cure. I did a portrait for a brochure(film days) and the neons in the background, were stronger than my umbrella flash.Green,green. I phoned the client, organized a re-shoot. Fitted into the time allowed.My first shoot sucked! Look at Kirk Tuck's "The Visual Lab" and definitely Jeff Asgough.Better luck next time.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I knew she was going to be a tough customer... ...She was referred by a friend who did warn me... She has some issues (personal and with her plastic surgery)... ...I travelled 3 hrs... ...$200... I suggested she contact her hair dresser and a professional makeup artist, she declined... ...I did NOT use a contract cause shes a "friend of a friend"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>We don't know the client's version of the story or whether your version is accurate. If you believed all this to be the situation you were getting yourself in to, you should have declined to go forward.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Mark:</p>

<p>I'd reiterate the advice about not showing all the photos. I didn't go through all of them, but the first several I looked at should have hit the figurative cutting room floor. Most people don't need a hundred portraits of themselves. They really only need one great one. Maybe a great one and a handful of really good ones. </p>

<p>The first few (starting at the top) are not at all flattering. Take the first one for example. Most people don't want to see veins in their necks or sitting slouched over, looking sad. Put another way, would you take these pictures and use them for your own advertising to show off your photographic skills? Any photo that you wouldn't use should be tossed before showing the client.</p>

<p>Eric</p>

<p>$200 is a cheap job. Refund half and move on.<br>

For your own good in the future be much more selective in the culling of photos to show - I wouldn't show that gallery as-is to anyone.</p>

<p>$200 is a cheap job. Refund half and move on.<br>

For your own good in the future be much more selective in the culling of photos to show - I wouldn't show that gallery as-is to anyone.</p>