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Help with issues getting going on my Graflex 4x5 Speed Graphic


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Hey all

 

OK not sure if I should have posted this in the beginner section but this a newbie here with 4x5 and need help getting things working.

 

I have recently bought a graflex 4x5 speed graphic which seems perfect but when I took my first 2 shots they came out transparent so wondered if I could get your help here. I'll list what I did and what happened below to see if theres anything missing. I checked a couple of youtube videos but not sure if I did everything as cameras seem to vary somewhat. Anyhow this is what I did.

 

I set the camera up moved the lend forward and locked it into place.

Focused the camera on the subject matter using the various devices other than the ground back, i couldn't work out how to get that to work)

Took a light meter reading and set the F stop and shutter speed according to that reading on the lens. (I have a light reading of 5.6 and 15 so set the camera accordingly, I have numbers 10 and 25 on the lens so put it somewhere in the middle, that correct)?

I used a dark-bag and put the film into the holder after watching the video, made sure I could feel the notch in the film and it was in the top right. I did wonder if top right meant the notch faced the top of where the dark-slides get entered into the device or the clip side.

Put the dark-slides in and then secured them, took them out of the bag.

Put the holder into the camera, it seemed to be in correctly

Checked the settings again and then cocked the lens and then pulled out the dark-slide nearest the lens

Took the shot

Put the dark-side in and turned the holder around took another photo same as above.

Put film into development canister in dark-bag

Developed the film and the images are clear.

 

My camera has these settings on the side I have no idea what they are but I've been using front, the other options are back and trip with a turn knob above it.

 

Theres a couple of other lens things, a slider to the right of the shutter cock if looking at the camera as a subject which seems to open and close something in the lens, what should I set that to do you think?

 

Any help much appreciated and so sorry for the looonnnggggg post.

 

 

Best

 

 

Scott

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The slider is to cock the self timer probably. What film are you using? Check on line with manufacturers data sheet that you have the film in the correct way round. I’m using FOMA at the moment and the notch is top right of the short side with the emulsion facing you. It doesn’t matter if the notch is top or bottom of the film holder, but it must be the correct way round. Your process sounds about right. Have you checked the shutter opens without film loaded?
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If your camera is a Speed Graphic, it has a focal plane shutter in addition to the leaf shutter that seems to be built into the lens, if I read your description correctly. If the focal plane shutter is closed then no light should get to your film which could account for the blank frames. If there are no edge markings, then processing could be at fault--either really ancient developer or more likely, starting with fixer instead of developer by mistake. The knob on the top that you mention on the side of the camera is how you wind the focal plane shutter. The choice of trip, front or back refers to using the focal plane shutter (back), the leaf shutter (front) or using the body release on the same side of the camera either to release the focal plane shutter or the leaf shutter in the front with the lens. If you want to use the leaf shutter in the lens, make sure the focal plane shutter is completely open. If you set the side control to back and release the shutter until it no longer fires the focal plane shutter shutter should then be open. Then switch the side control to front and the between the lens elements shutter will make the exposure. As for in between settings on a leaf shutter, that might work but I wouldn't count on getting an exact speed that way. Good luck!
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Hey all and thanks for all your help.

 

OK so there are no markings on the film at all and yep clear. I use a monobath and with 35mm and 120 never had any problems so doubt its a developing issue, although I am still prone to mistakes haha. The film is an expired ???? which came with the camera, it was an open box but fully closed with the film in the envelop, plstic bang and the inside box correctly but who knows for sure, I have a new box of film that I can try if the next ones don't work.

 

To check the films in right, when feeling the film which side should face the camera? The one that feels more slimey so to speak or the other one? I think I have it right but should check.

 

OK so AJG i am going to try and take photos with the lens leaf shutter, it seems to open and close correctly. I am going to set the switch to back and then cycle through until it no longer fires then go back to front so let me try that to make sure I have it set right. I will also use a perfectly aligned shutter speed.

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Hey all and thanks for all your help.

 

OK so there are no markings on the film at all and yep clear. I use a monobath and with 35mm and 120 never had any problems so doubt its a developing issue, although I am still prone to mistakes haha. The film is an expired ???? which came with the camera, it was an open box but fully closed with the film in the envelop, plstic bang and the inside box correctly but who knows for sure, I have a new box of film that I can try if the next ones don't work.

 

To check the films in right, when feeling the film which side should face the camera? The one that feels more slimey so to speak or the other one? I think I have it right but should check.

 

OK so AJG i am going to try and take photos with the lens leaf shutter, it seems to open and close correctly. I am going to set the switch to back and then cycle through until it no longer fires then go back to front so let me try that to make sure I have it set right. I will also use a perfectly aligned shutter speed.

I'm going to attach a few photos to clarify--_IMG3598.jpg.f7a485a5a0cf1a3a1b62dfa9a6f35b70.jpg

This is the back showing the Graflocks and rangefinder window._IMG3598.jpg.f7a485a5a0cf1a3a1b62dfa9a6f35b70.jpg

 

_IMG3600.jpg.141f1e62afe91fa4e90491f736a16e5f.jpg

This shows the focal plane shutter open.

This shows the focal plane shutter closed

 

._IMG3601.jpg.44d07c9a23dcb616d3e29cf194e80b10.jpg

This shows the release to open the hood for the groundless back

_IMG3603.jpg.08875e01ecee673c957ea97192f051ad.jpg

_IMG3598.jpg.f7a485a5a0cf1a3a1b62dfa9a6f35b70.jpg

Back with rangefinder window on the right

_IMG3604.jpg.c42e67f3a851aec3b028e79092e435b5.jpg

Viewing hood open to use the groundless back.

If you push in toward the camera back on the serrated chrome pieces you can remove the groundless back so that you can see the focal plane shutter to be sure that it is open or closed.

 

Sorry for the extra images of the whole back of the camera--it isn't as easy to delete images as it is to post them...

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There are no intermediate speeds on your leaf shutter. If the meter calls for 1/15 you either set the shutter to 10 or 25 and adjust your aperture.

Setting between speeds could break the shutter and it might not have opened.

If your film is completely clear it did not receive any exposure.

Take your lens off your camera, cock the shutter. Set the aperture wide open, set the shutter speed to 1/25 look through the lens and trip the shutter.

If you saw light it works. If you didn’t you need it repaired.

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There are three levers on the lens of a Speed Graphic. - (1) The shutter release, (2) Cocking lever for the shutter and (3) A lever to hold the shutter open for focusing. If (3) is engaged, the shutter will never close, and your film will be overexposed (black).

 

Since your film is clear, it is likely that the film was never exposed. Assuming you removed the darkslide from the film holder, the most likely cause is the focal plane shutter.

 

A Speed Graphic has two shutters, one in the lens and one in the body, a focal plane shutter. The shutter consists of a strip of opaque, rubberized cloth with 4 (?) openings. When you wind the shutter, progressively narrower slots are readied for exposure. The shutter curtain moves at a constant speed, and the smaller the slot, the quicker the exposure at any given point on the film. When tripped, one slot at a time travels from top to bottom. Wind the shutter fully for the fastest speed, or leave it in its fully discharged position for wide open. If it is wound to any position other than fully open, the film will be covered, and the exposure will be blank (clear).

 

This is easy to determine by direct observation. You have a Grafloc back, which can be removed by pressing the grooved silver spring bars on the top and bottom of the back, unhooking the bars from the body, and sliding the back to the right, If the shutter is closed, the opening will be covered by the shutter cloth. Short of removing the back (which you should know how to do anyway), popping the focusing hood open and opening the front shutter, you should see an upside down image of what the camera is seeing.

 

There is a slide switch on the right side of the body which selects which shutter will be engaged by the shutter release button. Move it to the FP position, and you can trip the rear shutter shutter until it remains completely open.

 

There is another lever on the bottom right which selects the high and low speed range for the FP shutter. This changes the speed it travels by a factor of two. The shutter speed is displayed in a small window above the speed selector.

 

If the FP shutter hasn't been used much, it may need some coaxing to move to the open position. That's the vicissitudes of owning a 65 year old camera.

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hey all

 

Ok GREAT news. I have now taken some shots are they are working!!!!! WOOHOO! OK so the issue was that although I had the slide set to Front but the focal shutter wasn't set to open. AJG you were right and that was the issue, i needed to cycle that through in Back and then I could take photos correctly.

 

I see about not using in-between speeds so am now using only the ones listed. this is all very exciting for me haha.

 

OK so one issue I have found with the camera, when its set to shutter speed 1 or 2 I don't think its working properly at all, the level seems to get stuck as its moving towards shutting the shutter again but does eventually work but stalls a little. It only seems to happen at 1 and 2, all other settings are fine. Is it worth trying to fix it myself or get someone who is a specialist to do so, maybe leave it? Not sure but I am glad its working.

 

Thanks everyone for all your help. My next task is working out how to better use it so if anyone has a great resource let me know. One questions i had was do I have to allow for distance when taking a shot or will the settings be the same as depicted by the light meter? The bellows can extend a lot and wondered if that had any influence on the settings at all.

 

Thanks everyone again, what would I do with out this forum and everyone part of it

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It isn't surprising that the slow shutter speeds are hanging up on an old shutter that hasn't been used in a long time--a CLA should take care of it. As to whether or not you can do this yourself, that depends on your level of skills and experience. Some people will tell you to just flush the shutter out with naphtha but that probably won't be a long term repair. If you have anybody local who does camera repair this should be an easy job for them.

 

As to exposure for close ups, when you get closer you will need to compensate with more exposure. The easiest formula is M+1 squared, where M is the amount of magnification of the object you're photographing on the film plane. For example, if something is the same size on the film as it is in real life then M=1, so M+1 squared is 2 squared which equals 4. That means you would need 4 times as much exposure as the light meter indicates--either 4 times as long (4 sec. instead of 1 second) or open up by two f/stops. This is more of an issue with 4x5 since the film is much bigger than 35 mm or 120. Be aware that is exposure times get long (10 seconds or more, depending on the film) that reciprocity failure can also require further compensation. Check with the film manufacturer for information on the film that you're using.

 

Show us some pictures when you have them.

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If your shutter eventually works at 1 and 2 it may just need a good exercise session. Sit down with the lens and start at 4 (or 5 whatever is next) and cock and fire it a 100 times or so. Then go to 2 and repeat until it completes successfully. Then 1. Whenever I get an old shutter I always do a full exercise session starting with the highest speed and working down.
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Thanks so much for all your help!!! OK so AJG I'll post some for sure! my first two are test photos done in my apartment but I plan to take some this week so I'll be happy to post the results, good or bad haha.

 

Thanks Bob_salomon for this guide, tjis might be a total morons question but how or when will I know if something is 1:1 in size or any variation such as this? I actually don't know how to tell right now so clearly missing something or a trick or common sense. One or all of those things. Total newbie here but keen to learn.

 

chauncey_walden, I actually had to do something similar after consultation with a polaroid SX-70 pro whereby I had to close and open the camera about 100 times to try to solve the issue that the camera wasn't always allow any function when fully opened which it should so the focusing works and spits out the film etc, that actually did fix the problem so I do hope it does here also with repeating the shutter cocking and releasing. If it doesn't work I'll get it looked at by a CLA. I'm based in NYC so when things get back to normal a bit hopefully I can find one. If anyone has any good leads for such a person that won't rip me off please do let me know.

 

Thanks all!!!!

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Put a ruler in the scene and measure 1” on the ruler against 1” on the gg. If the ruler in the scene measures ½” on the gg you are at ½ lifesize. If it measures 1” you are at 1:1 lifesize. If it measures 2” on the gg you are at 2x lifesize.

 

when things get better you should take your camera and lens to FotoCare and have them guide you.

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OK proud to say I've taken a few photos now and I am so freaking happy with this camera. Its all new to me but think I'm slowly getting th hang of it thanks to everyone here. You have to remember it took me longer than I'd ever share with you to just open the thing to reveal the lens haha.

 

It takes me ages to set this up, get it right and make a shot, how on earth did Weegee do it on the fly????

 

Anyway took this shot on my exercise walk in Forest Park, Queens, NYC a couple of days ago. Lots to learn but so much fun!

 

18601189-orig.jpg

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Great! Now you can look up the Scheimpflug principle and see some cool things you can do with depth of field. I'm pretty sure your camera has some limited lens movements. Not as much as a view camera, but enough to enhance certain types of photos.

Scheimpflug lets you control the plane of sharp focus. Not the depth of field. The aperture used and the point focused on along with the CofC control depth of field. They are two different things.

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Scheimpflug lets you control the plane of sharp focus. Not the depth of field. The aperture used and the point focused on along with the CofC control depth of field. They are two different things.

 

You are quite correct. It ends up solving a DOF problem, but isn't the same and can't be applied in opposing planes.

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Ooh that sounds fun Conrad_Hoffman!!! I don't even know what that is yet haha

 

In a normal camera there is a "plane of best focus" in the subject area, and it is always parallel to the film plane. For example if you stand 20 feet from a brick wall, and point your camera perpendicular to the wall, and focus on it, then your "plane of best focus" and the wall are the same; you can have the entire wall sharply focused. But... if you don't point directly at the wall, but rather at an angle to it, the wall is no longer all in the "plane of best focus." One part of the wall, where you focused, will be sharp, but the parts of the wall that are closer (or farther) won't be as sharp.

 

Now, if you can make the lens be slightly tilted, with respect to the film plane, you can actually make the subject area "plane of best focus" tilt. So it is possible to do this such that your brick wall, shot at an angle, can all be in sharp focus. The Scheimplug principle describes the rule for how to get there. For the most part you still have to do it by trial and error, look I at the ground glass, but understanding the principle will help get you there quicker.

 

Your Speed Graphic is relatively limited compared to more specialized cameras, but can still do quite a bit. You can experiment on your kitchen table using things like a cereal box or a set of cans in a row, etc. Just view with the ground glass.

 

As a note, if you've ever seen those photos of a cityscape where it looks like a scale model, they're using the same ideas, but in a reverse direction. They tilt the "plane of best focus" AWAY from the subject, so that only a narrow zone is in sharp focus. This looks to us like the effect we see in closeup photos of scale models, so we tend to see it as such. Have fun playing with the camera.

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