Help me solve the shutter failure on my Pilot Super and Great Wall cameras!

I cannot believe it! It seems that both my old KW <b><a

href="http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00PX8K">Pilot Super</a></b> and my newly-arrived Chinese Great Wall

DF-4 suffer from exactly the same problem!

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(These two <abbr style="border-bottom: 1px blue dashed;" title="single-lens reflex cameras">SLRs</abbr> are

pretty much identical in construction, with the Chinese camera being a 1970s copy of the pre-WW2 German original.

There are minor differences, though, the Great Wall is larger, uses a 49mm instead of a 32mm lens mount and has a

different <abbr style="border-bottom: 1px blue dashed;" title="waist-level finder">WLF</abbr> and back design.

Besides the top speed of 1/200 sec the shutter speeds are in the modern designation 1/125, 1/60 etc, although I

do not know if this an actual modification.)

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Both cameras show a severe shutter issue: The second curtain of the guillotine-style shutter immediately follows

the first curtain (which is part of the mirror), resulting in no light hitting the film. This is the case at all

speeds. The Great Wall does this EVERY time, so it is a completely useless camera for now, while the Pilot Super

does this erratically, making picture-taking a hit-and-miss (about ½ to ¼ of the frames are not

going to be exposed). Though I did check and experiment a lot, there seems to be no reproducible pattern what

might be the source or reason for this.

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Has anyone here had the same problem and knows how to fix it?<div></div>

I have exactly the same problem with my Super. I took it apart and tried a few things. Still NFG.

I thought the Wall has a 39mm Leica screw monut. That is what I heard in a review by Jason Schneider.

 

Sounds like your cameras need a shutter cleaning at least and, if that doesn't clear it up, maybe a new spring.

 

I had the Pilot. Loved it. Sold it. Saw one two years ago at a flea market but was 30 seconds late and the other guy got to buy it for $20.

Where did you get the Great Wall? Awesome camera.

Gene, did you manage to take the right side panel off? How do I remove the shutter release knob?

 

 

Joseph, my mistake, the screw mount is 39mm of course (but it is not really compatible to Leica). Which spring do

you mean? How do I get there? The Pilot Super is literally a black box for me, and my camera repair skills are

virtually non-existent.

 

 

Ken, I got this one at that infamous internet auction site. If you are still interested, make me an offer and it

could be yours.

I don't remember. The camera is sitting on my "I hate you shelf."

Don't be a hater, Gene! The Super is worth fixing. I manage to get the side panel off. There are six screws to remove plus the screw of the shutter speed dial. Last I carefully unscrewed the release knob with pliers.<div></div>

First it was hard to reproduce the problem to see what goes wrong, because things are happing too fast to see.

However, I took some pictures of the shutter mechanism in its three states -- (1) wound and ready to shoot, (2)

fired with the second curtain still open, and (3) fully released with the shutter closed again.

 

Playing around with the camera I noticed that when I press down the shutter release slowly, everything works fine

and the stopper mechanism (I am not very proficient in technical English, so please don't be confused) catches

the 2nd curtain interlock and everything works as it should. But when I press down the release quickly, it looks

like the 2nd curtain interlock lever moves faster than the stopper, resulting in a non-opening shutter.

 

The shutter is a very simple device, so at first I was at a loss why this failure happens, but I noticed that the

interlock was a tiny little bit sticky when I moved it by hand. All springs are in good order so it was just that

a miniscule amount of gooey residue was making this interlock moving slower than it was supposed to do.

 

I simply put a very small drop of "lock oil" under this interlock lever and now it moves freely. It seems that

the issue is fixed for now as the closing 2nd shutter issue doesn't occur anymore, no matter what I try.

 

It is probably something minor with the Chinese camera, too, but the GW is much harder to open as all screws are

hidden behind the leatherette and other things. I am not sure yet if I should try to remove the side panel or if

I just sell it again where I bought it...<div></div>

Cool cameras and good job on the diagnosis and simple repair on the Super, gotta love that! The Great Wall looks like a

chopped Rollie. I've had no problems using rubber cement or even white glue to reattach leather. Often, you only need to

loosen it up at the corners where the screws are. Just be careful to remove the leaher from behind slowly, so not to stretch it

out shape by pulling it off from the front like a peel-off label.

 

-Ed

Thanks, Ed! The (fake) leatherette looks pretty tightly glued on the camera, I have no idea how to loosen it. I'm afraid that I will damage it, ruining the pristine look the camera still has for it. And I have absolutely no idea how to remove the shutter dial and the release button, both don't show any screws or "edges" where I might begin working. I also lack the tool for the self-timer lever.<div></div>

<p>May I revive this thread? I have just bought a Pilot 6 with shutter problems. The shutter did not work at first, but after the customary working it repeatedly, it worked perfectly for a few minutes. Then, sadly, it seemed that the second shutter was closing by immediately following the mirror/shutter. That is to say, it effectively did not open at all or it opened instantaneously and for a very short time. The photographs are wonderfully helpful and I am confident that I can repair the camera once I get the side panel off. What I am not clear about is how the shutter speed knob and the shutter release knob are removed. If I were making the mechanism, I would make it so that the release knob unscrewed conventionally in an anti-clockwise direction and the speed knob unscrewed similarly once it was lifted. Is that correct?</p>

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