Help? I shot my first wedding and I'm being threatened?

<p>Hello everyone. I need your advice and help. I shot my very first wedding and I made a ton of mistakes. I had "friends" who wanted to use me and I said I had never shot a wedding before. What I guaranteed were 10 fully edited (LR, Photoshop) photos an hour. I would not give them poor quality photos and they agreed to my conditions. I charged them $1200 total. Being that I did not have a DSLR, I spent the money renting a Nikon D800, SB900, and lenses. I wanted to create a contract but they did not want a contract. They would only pay cash. This should have been a red flag for me and I should've backed out. I did receive all of my money but here is what happened. Instead of 10 fully edited photos per hour, I was surprised that I was able to get 20 fully edited photos per hour. Other than this there are a lot of junk photos. Just 6 weeks after the wedding, the groom tonight threatened me. He is demanding every single shot that I took. I do not want to give him the poor quality photos. What should I do. Yes, I know I blew it on many levels but what do I do now. What do the pros agree to when shooting weddings? Do you provide the bride and groom with every single photograph that you shot. I was told not to do this as these photos could come back to haunt me.</p>

<p>because people own a DSLR...they claim to be Pros.<br>

even worst... you rented one! and charged more money that the "mom with a DSLR wedding"....</p>

<p>Good Luck !</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I never claimed to be a pro. They knew very well my position. I was up front with everything. </p>

<p>He's threatening you in what way, exactly?</p>

<p>David, you weren't clear about whether you've delivered the photos yet.</p>

<p>I think you have fulfilled your contractual obligations if you have delivered the 10 (or more) fully edited photos per hour. I don't think the groom is entitled to alter the terms of your agreement after the fact. </p>

<p>Zane, I was approached at my job and threatened physically. I too don't think he is entitled to any more photos than our agreement but he is so pissed and abusive, I think I should just send him all of the photos and call it a day. There was no physical contract, only a verbal contract. I want to know what other photographers who are professional (unlike myself) would do in this situation. </p>

<p>David:</p>

<p>a) Had you agreed to give them every shot, or had this not come up in conversation? My guess is that the reason behind their request for all your shots is that they probably have completely lost confidence in your photographic skills and they may think that there are some gems hidden among your rejects that someone more skilled in post processing could "save". From that POV, their request is not as unreasonable as it might first appear.</p>

<p>b) In what way did the groom threaten you? physically? to sue you? bad-mouth you on Internet forums? etc.?</p>

<p>c) How much of the $1200 went towards equipment rentals? Do the B&G realize that equipment rental costs $$$?</p>

<p>d) To defuse the situation and extricate yourself from this mess, would you consider returning all of their money that didn't go to out-of-pocket expenses and just give them all your images?? IMHO, at this point, you have little to lose.</p>

<p>e) I'm sure you now realize this and don't need to have it rubbed in your face, but I am utterly flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive that they would assume they could rent a camera as complicated as a d700 and immediately get good pix out of it. I've owned two d700s since they first were introduced, use them for lots of event work, and I'm still learning how to best use them.</p>

<p>The best of luck,</p>

<p>Tom M</p>

<p>Yes you made a ton of mistakes and you know that now. We'll leave that alone but it certainly is a message to all.<br>

I assume you delivered all the photos you feel were 'good' and omitted the bad shots? If that is so, you've done your job. No one delivers the out of focus, poorly lit or mistake shots. No one. If he physically threatened you, do you have a witness? If so, take some of that $1200 and have a lawyer send him a letter that you will seek a restraining order if he contacts you ever again for any reason. </p>

<p>Soon as you have the letter sent out, go back to your day job.....</p>

<blockquote>Help? I shot my first wedding and I'm being threatened?</blockquote>

<p>Statements or questions?</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>If so, take some of that $1200 and have a lawyer send him a letter that you will seek a restraining order if he contacts you ever again for any reason.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /><br />I wouldn't bother wasting any money on a lawyer. Just send a letter stating that you have taken legal advice and you will be persuing a restraining order if he continues harassing you. I think 'contacting you for any reason' is going a bit too far.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>" If he physically threatened you....have a lawyer send him a letter..."</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Peter, the police will do that for free. </p>

<p>Hi Tom, <br>

Thank you so much for your advice and questions. I will attempt to answer them the best I can. <br>

a) No, I had not agreed to give them every shot. It was very clear that they would only get the edited photos. Furthermore, they canceled the pre-wedding shoot and they did not give me any time during their wedding ceremony. In fact, the groom asked me to park his car when they pulled up to the venue and then when I got back inside the venue, the wedding already started. After the initial ceremony, the B&G elected to visit with friends and family rather than to take photos. I was basically an auxillary part of the wedding. With that said, I still got some terrific photos. Your point about hidden gems is well taken. <br>

b) The groom came into my place of employment and threatened me physically. I am a bartender in a restaurant. <br>

c) $1100 went to the cost of camera equipment for two weeks. I spent another $500 taking one on one lessons from a pro for two days with this equipment. I rented a Nikon D800, 70-200mm lens, 50mm 1.4g lens, SB900 speedlight, and other ancillary equipment. I told the B&G that I needed the $1200 up front to pay for this rental equipment. I would not agree to the wedding unless this was done. On the day of the wedding I received the last payment. I also custom designed their CD folio and spent more money for the folio (cover and back shown here). I also have my own printer (Epson R3000) and have spent the last few weeks making sure the printed quality equals that of the photos on my monitor. The paper and ink has cost a fortune. When all is said and done, I spent another $1000 on top of the camera rental equipment. The B&G do not care what my expenses were. That was made clear tonight.<br>

d) I do not have any money to give back. The money was used on the equipment and other expenses. <br>

e) Thank you for not rubbing it in my face and for being respectful. No, I was not naive enough to think I could get great pics from it but I did a fairly good job considering. I even shot in full manual mode. The venue, a restaurant, was yellow with yellow light. The grooms face was red and I had to mask off his face in every photo in Photoshop and desaturate his face. I have also since learned that the 50mm 1.4g is soft at its widest apertures.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Do you provide the bride and groom with every single photograph that you shot.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

I shoot around 800 - 1,000 images at each wedding and out off these would discard around a dozen shots for one reason or another. The remaining images are all edited in Lightroom and a few dozen of the better images are copied and edited in Photoshop for a range off different effects.<br>

If you can only offer your clients 20 images from each hour of shooting, then seriously you should never have agreed to do this in the first place. $1,200 for what - approximately 100 - 160 images (working on 5 - 8 hours). <br>

<br>

Tom is spot on when he says that <br>

</p>

<blockquote>

<p>be so naive that they would assume they could rent a camera as complicated as a d700 and immediately get good pix out of it. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>Ok it was a D800. Which is probably even worse. All that said though the couple are just as much to blame for hiring you when they knew that you had very limited experience. <br>

<br>

I shot a wedding earlier this year where one of the Bridesmaids approached me and asked if I could have a look at her wedding images that one of their friends had taking. She sent me the images and we agreed on a price. I am now editing images that are shot on a reasonable camera by someone that obviously had no idea on how to use it. Images shot at 1/20sec and others that are shot at ISO3200. The only thing in their favour was thankfully the so called photographer shot all the images in RAW. I suspect that was the setting when he was handed the camera from whoever he borrowed it off.<br>

<br>

I agree with Michael, if he physically threatens you then contact the police especially if he entered your work place, you would have witnesses. <br>

<br>

Good luck.<br>

</p>

<p>Thanks John for your input. Yes, I told them that I never shot a wedding before and I was going to use a camera that I never used before. I warned them and that it why I set my guaranteed output so low, at 10 images an hour. They agreed to these conditions. I was fortunate to get 20 images an hour. Just to satiate the groom, I'm thinking about just giving them all of the photos, even the blurry and out of focus ones, just to get them off my back. Then I wonder if he will sue me for bad photos? </p>

<p>David, I love your CD cover excellent work. Proves that you so have some skills.</p>

<p>The fact that the groom asked you to park his car is crazy what are these people on... I would remove any image that is out of focus or have any motion Blur in them. Edit the rest the best you can, sometimes editing / cropping a picture can create a great image out of something that was going to be rejected on first glance. I would then give them these images and say you don't want any further contact with them. Have them sign something as well to free you from any further action they may take against you.</p>

<p>Hi John, <br>

Thank you for the compliments on the cover. I sent them 30 edited photos for the cover and they were not happy with any of them. Not even this one. I can not go back and spend hundreds of hours editing more photos, especially after they spurned any photographic opportunities that I presented to them. They even asked me to photoshop two different photos together for the cover. They did not pay me enough for this and it was not included in our agreement. Here is the thing though. He threatened me physically. If I remove a burry or out of focus photograph, he will still be upset. If I don't remove the photograph, he can use it against me. </p>

<p>It is unfortunate that you have already supplied images. I go through my images and flag any rejects then renumber the remaining images so that they are no gaps from any image that I have removed. The client is then non the wiser that any image has been removed.</p>

<p>It appears that your clients are being unreasonable. You might need to get a third party involved to mediate between both parties. This will at least give you a witness of what happens from now on. </p>

<p>Depending on how serious he threatened you physically, might give you some leverage that you will lodge charges against him if he doesn't accept what you have done to date.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>"He threatened me physically. If I remove a burry or out of focus photograph, he will still be upset. If I don't remove the photograph, he can use it against me."</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>David, you seem quite intimidated by the groom; I don't blame you since most of us are used to others behaving in a more civil manner, but you are on good legal ground since you've fulfilled your end of the bargain as they have. <br>

<br>

I see two choices - give him what he wants in the hopes that he'll go away, or assert your rights and ignore him. The law will be on your side either way. However, the police will not get involved if the matter is contained to a civil dispute, but it becomes their duty to protect you if it escalates to physical threat. </p>

<p>Hi David -</p>

<p>Thank you for answering my questions. In the interim, it looks like a lot of folks have already responded to the points I made and your answers, so about the only thing I would add is that I agree completely with everyone who suggested not giving back any out-of-pocket expenses and not giving the clients any OOF or otherwise botched shots.</p>

<p>BTW, your CD cover is beautiful. I'm really glad you posted it. It gives us all a point of reference in that we now know that we are not talking to some clueless newbie in photography. If you can produce something like that, I think you are being vastly too modest about your photographic (and graphic art) skills. Since you said that this was your 1st wedding and your 1st DSLR, may I ask what sort of camera and subjects do you normally shoot?</p>

<p>Cheers,</p>

<p>Tom M</p>

<p>John, <br>

I have not supplied any images so far so I can renumber the photographs. Hmm, this sounds like a good escape route; a narrow one but an escape route nonetheless. Michael, thank you for your advice. Unfortunately, I think I just may have to give him what he wants. I agree the law would be on my side but my restaurant does not look kindly upon skirmishes either, even if it is his fault.</p>

<p>DO NOT give them all the images. Under no circumstances. You will open yourself up to a day in small claims court. He'll claim all sorts of promises never kept, broken contract etc etc. He knew what he was doing from the start and he set you up for what you are going through now. That's why he didn't want a contract. Verbal contracts are worth the paper they are written on and he could claim all sorts of stuff you never agreed to. Any judge would most likely side with the consumer where there is no contract and you can't prove your side of the story. It's happened before.</p>

<p>This will only get worse. Do not go back over the shots to find hidden gems. This only opens the door to getting a few more and a few more and a few more. In fact if he harasses you again, delete all the poor shots and be done with it.</p>

<p>If what you are saying is true, this guy would be described with words I can't post here. He treated you like dirt at the wedding, he feels entitled to everything and will not stop pushing if you give an inch. I earlier suggested you get your lawyer to send him a letter. I meant that. The letter should contain a part that all agreed to items have been delivered and no files beyond these remain. If there is any further contact over this matter, you will get a restraining order. In the mean time, if there were any witnesses to the first threat, gather the info such as phone numbers. <br /> Honestly I can't understand why you've spent so much money (what 4x the fee?) to do all this. Were you considering going into photography? Stick to you current job. Let this be a big lesson.</p>

<p>Oh and if they don't like that cover shot or the design work. Tell them to stuff it. It's a good shot and a nice design. Way over the top for a shoot and burn job.</p>

<p>Oh BTW, the Nikon manual clearly shows which lenses are suited to the D800. The 50mm f1.4G isn't one of them. I'd go back to the rental company and ask for a refund on the lens rental. They should know better (this is common knowledge to Nikon shooters who have gear at this level) and have rented you a different lens. Namely the 24-70mm f2.8</p>

<p>Edit: Oh that last post changes everything. YES RENUMBER, pros all do this. Delete the poor shots and that's the end of it.<br /> Edit 2: Again to your follow up post. I am dead serious about the lawyer and restraining order. If he does anything again at your work, back off, say nothing and take firm action. Type A fools like this need to be dealt with in the firmest fashion possible.</p>

<p>a) BTW, are the folks on the cover of your CD the B&G or the parents?</p>

<p>b) You may not want the B&G to see this thread, especially with regards to them finding out that you publicly posted a photo of them (or someone else in their wedding party). Hopefully, "David Ross" isn't your real name, so this thread won't come up if they do a search on you. If this actually is your real name, you may want to get in touch with one of the moderators and have your on-line alias changed and have that photo deleted.</p>

<p>Just my $0.02,</p>

<p>Tom M</p>

<p>Tom I agree. Once David has the info he needs, he should contact Nadine (moderator) to have the name changed and the photo removed.</p>

To keep from a physical attack get the restraining order and worry about the rest after. This guy is way out of line.

 

Best of luck and keep us posted under the name of JOHN DOE or something.

<p>Hi guys. Thank you for the sound advice. Yes the folks on the cover are the B&G. I will take your advice contact Nadine, have the photo removed, and change my username. I think all that I'm left with is I'm going to have to cave in to the groom and give him most of the photos. </p>

<p>Thanks Peter for your considered advice too. I do not have a lawyer nor can I afford one. The worst thing too is that this guy can complicate things at my job. He already did by coming in and threatening me. How do I contact Nadine, everyone? </p>