Help, Developing Streaks on 4x5 film

Discussion in 'Black and White' started by brian_minnich, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. Hi all,
    Wondering if someone could offer some insight on these streaks on my 4x5 negs.
    Here's the info:
    2 min pre wash
    1:1 microphen 12.5 mins, 68 degrees
    1 min water stop
    8 mins fix Ilford
    water wash - 8 cycles, 1 min each
    Using an 8 reel patterson tank, with Mod Photographic inserts, 12 sheets a tank. These a run on unirollers that provide constant multidirectional rotation.
    I have had encountered developing streaks before, but it was resolved with the presoak. Usually I have really consistent results but previously was using JOBO 3010's with 4x5. Roll film is fine with the same process is fine.
    Also, I only seem to notice the streaks on images that are back lit, so at first I was thinking it was some sort of lens flare signature.
    Here's a link to 3 images from the same processing batch that have slightly different streaking:
  2. Here's another
  3. And another, less backlit, less streaking....
  4. Morgan has stated that his MOD insert is *not* usable for rotary agitation. Inversion only. The artifacts on your film appear to be a result of the insert.
  5. What are all the white circles and black smudging from?
  6. I make crude contact sheets with a digital camera off a light table. These images were just quickly cropped from those. The circles, black smudging and lines running through the bottom are probably from the plastic sleeve.
  7. Can't find any info about rotary agitation not being suitable other than some having sheets fall out. I emailed Morgan. Hopefully he'll get back soon.
    I am not sure why rotary agitation would cause the streaks as the chemicals are always moving. Any insight?
  8. I am not sure why rotary agitation would cause the streaks as the chemicals are always moving. Any insight?​
    It's turbulent flow from the middle two supports that hold film edges.
    Morgan's FAQ clearly states that the adapter " not designed for rotary systems."
    Scroll halfway down this page:
  9. Pricey little gadget.

    Anyone else use it properly with success?
    He has a tutorial video with proper agitation technique on his site.

    How do you find it better or worse than other development methods?

    I am just about to start developing 4x5 and was going to try the 4 sheets in a reel tank "flower" method, but something
    tells me that that's going to be miserable.
  10. It's turbulent flow from the middle two supports that hold film edges.​
    Not to sound picky, but it's likely more of laminar flow phenomenon. If the flow was turbulent, there would be adequate mixing.
    In any event, inversion appears to be critical due to the structural supports.
  11. So, is it just the design of how the sheets are held in the mod45 and the way developer rolls around in rotary processing? Why do I only have the streaks on some images and not all? Right now, I am using 800ml of 1:1 developer. Would using more developer help with even processing?
  12. Could it be some sort of flare or light leak? It's only on the image, not through the edges and only on images that have the sun either in the image or close of the side. The setup is a toyo a, 75mm sw w/ b&w slim filter and grafmatic holder.
  13. A light leak will spread out in a different pattern. Place one of the streaked negatives back into the Mod holder and see if the streaks align with the retainers or support ribs. I think they are in line with the retainers along the outer edge of the holder. The retainer being on the side will cause a different chemical flow rate around them which is causing the streaks.
  14. Thanks Charles, that makes sense. Do you think there is a way to keep my current workflow using rotary developing by using more chemistry, flipping the tube every minute or something else? I wonder if it's with the inner, middle, or outer retainers or all three. It also doesn't seem to happen all the time, so maybe there is a way around it.
  15. Get some cheap film and experiment. A slow rotation speed may help.
  16. Hard to say why it affects some but not all. Agitation can sometimes be a funny thing. I even get slightly different results with 1 versus 4-reel tanks, even though I agitate in the same way. Bottom line is to be consistent once you have found an effective method. In this case, I'd take the inventor's word and not rely on a rotary processor.
  17. Just received a response from Morgan at Mod 45. His reasoning for not using a rotary method was in his words "the sideways effect of the chemicals on the sheets, pushing them out of their Slots. Obviously this is not happening". Hand processing would eliminate the streaks. Although, he also mentioned coming up with a solution, so maybe MOD45 mII? For the record, Morgan is a great guy, always on top of it and the MOD 45 is a genius piece of ingenuity. In the meantime, I'll experiment with chemistry amounts and different inversion methods within my rotary workflow.
  18. Hi Brian,
    I may as well answer you questions here, will help everyone.
    Your using an 8 reel tank, an absolutly massive tank. As i recommend 1000ml for a 3 reel tank, then i think that 800 ml is never going to be enough, even with the rotary process. I'd try doublling it to 1600 ml and seeing what happens.
    The cost of the chemicals is so small compared with the whole process it sort of doesn't matter how much you use, well apart from any ecological considerations you may have.
    Hope that helps,
    Morgan O'Donovan.
  19. I read something printed around the lid of a gallon can of paint, ... 40 years ago?
    "When all else fails, try following the directions." :)
    It's an excellent product Morgan.
    Cheers, Kevin.
  20. Update: Yup, More Chemistry. 1500 ml worked well for 12 sheets in a 8 reel tank , rotary development.

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