Hassy 202FA shutter problem?

Discussion in 'Medium Format' started by kat d., Jul 20, 2015.

  1. Hello Hassy experts. I just got two rolls of film back which I shot with my Hassy 202FA. On first roll, the first three frames were fine. Then, on the fourth frame, there is a diagonal streak across the frame. For all the successive frames on that roll and all the frames on second roll, the top 20% of the frame is missing. There's a jagged edge where the image disappears.
    Attached are photos of negatives to show you what I mean. (I shot these on a light table, with negs in sleeves, so please ignore that vertical bright area on the left, that's just the neg sleeve.)
    You can see that frames are normal until the one with the streak. Then frames after that are cut off on top.
    Is this a shutter problem? If shutter problem, any idea what the repair would be? Replace shutter? Or could it be electrical? (I put new battery in camera just before shooting these rolls.)
    I can send to Hasselblad/Bron, of course, but wondering what I'm in for. It cost $500 to repair stuck aperture blades on 110/2 lens a couple years ago :(
    Thanks.
    00dOqd-557694584.jpg
     
  2. I think it's a flap of material that lines the inside of the camera body that may have come loose. Remove the back and the lens and cycle
    the camera several times while looking through it and see if you notice any obstructions. I think a shutter problem would appear square
    with the frame which this isn't.
     
  3. Also check your film back. Might have a loose light seal that is sometimes falling into the film plane area.
     
  4. What a brilliant idea -- take a look! How silly of me to not do that. I will look in the morning and let you know what I see. Thank you, Terry.
     
  5. There's a plastic baffle that bends with the mirror as it moves, it may have broken off and be sitting on the bottom of the mirror chamber. Depending on where it sits, it'll cast a shadow at the top of the image. Or maybe some baffle material on the bottom of the mirror chamber has lifted.
     
  6. Tom Chow is right in my opinion, the baffle is an easy replacement for an experienced technician.
     
  7. Okay, set the shutter to "bulb", and as I was turning camera every which way to look inside, this fell out (see attachment). It looks like it's deteriorating, little pieces of it falling off. Is this the baffle that you mentioned, Tom and Douglas? Hasselblad/Bron would still have replacement for this, I hope.
     
  8. Sorry, the image didn't go through. Trying again....
     
  9. Emailed Hasselblad/Bron. Said what fell out is light seal and it will cost $300-350 plus shipping to repair, as long as nothing else needs to be repaired. Seems awfully expensive for this little repair. But what can I do...
     
  10. Kat, that is indeed the light baffle / light seal that I was talking about. The flexible rubbery part at the top that looks ripped (is indeed ripped) originally connected to a thin metal strip that is glued (double sided tape) just above the shutter opening up near the base of the mirror. The rubbery piece flexed with the mirror as the flap moves with it, blocking light from entering through the view screen between the mirror and the body when the mirror is down.

    Mine did not quite break off, and jammed the mirror. I removed it, and continued shooting with the camera for another year before replacing it. I did not see any problems, but the light leaking between the mirror and body can a) affect the meter reading when the mirror is down, and b) fog the film when the mirror is up and shutter open. When I checked my camera body (a 203FE, not a FA) the foam seals were still blocking most/all the light when the mirror was up, so I was just careful not to let too much light fall into the viewing screen when metering (I usually use the WLF - if you use a prism, this is not much of an issue).
    I eventually replaced the flap. I was able to order the part from Hasselblad New Jersey, it cost $50(!!!) - which is why I did not replace it earlier - I was thinking of just fixing, or making a replacement. I did not have to disassemble the body to do this, you can lock the shutter open by tripping the camera on B, and while holding the shutter open, remove the battery. Then it's pretty easy to carefully remove the other half of the baffle from the body (you have to separate it from the double sided tape/glue), clean that surface, and install the new baffle (or re-manufacture the old one - or just leave it off).
     
  11. Hi Tom. Thank you so much for all of that information. Though $50 seems like a lot for that little flap, it seems like a real bargain compared to paying Hasselblad/Bron $300-350 to do the repair (plus shipping). I'll ask if I can buy the flap from them and how much it is currently. I will also see if the camera works okay without it. I never use the in-camera meter and I always use the PM45 viewfinder. From what you're saying, maybe it will work okay without the flap.
    Thanks again....
     
  12. Hi Kat, I'm pretty sure you will not notice the missing baffle, maybe with fast film and the sun shinning directly into your PM45 (while on a tripod), you might notice a little fogging at the bottom of the picture. I would just use it first and decide if you need it.
    I do find it interesting that you do not use the built in meter, as that is what that body was designed around (and what you are paying for - there is a cheaper meterless version). The built in meter is the reason I shoot the 203, when I was using a hand held meter, I preferred using the 500 series.
    (PS the part# is 105 133, "Light seal foil". In 2013 it cost $42.40 plus shipping $30 and customs $20, so it was almost $100 by the time it arrived)
     
  13. Hi Tom,
    I'll run a roll of film through the camera and see what happens.
    My first Hassy was 501CM (which I still have and love). Then I discovered the 110/2 lens and bought one. The 200 series cameras available at Keh at the time, where I almost always buy my used equipment, were 202FA and 203FE. I didn't need the extra features of the 203, so got the 202. About a year later, I saw a 201F at Keh and got that, in case something happened to the 202FA, I could still use that awesome 110/2.
    I have a lot of cameras with meters in them which I don't use (the meters, I mean) :)
    Thanks again for all the info. I've asked Hasselblad/Bron how much they would charge for the part. Will be interesting to hear their price.
     
  14. The 110mm f/2 is on my bucket list, but I have not ponied up for one yet. Recently I've been playing/learning to use a modified 120mm f/4.5 Imagon - kind of the opposite of the 110mm Planar...
    I would use the 201F as my main body and keep the 202 as a backup after you've checked that it still works satisfactorily. The 201 will be less demanding on the battery (longer life) with a mechanically set manual shutter ring that can sync with the aperture.
    The 201 has the same mirror baffle flap that the 202 has (all the GMS bodies have it), you can see where it is and how it is attached, so you can decide if you want to do your own repair.
     
  15. Just googled your Imagon lens. That looks interesting....
    Yeah....I was thinking of looking inside the 201F to see if it had the same baffle that fell out of my 202FA. Seeing it there would definitely make me more confident about replacing in the 202FA.
    I did hear from Hasselblad/Bron in NJ this morning. They don't sell parts anymore. Guess I could see about getting from Sweden as you did. I'll see how the camera works without it first....though it kind of bothers me to not have my camera in tip-top shape. On the other hand, $350+......
    Thanks again for your help!
     
  16. Today it happened to me too on my 203FE. The piece of plastic jammed with the shutter curtain but after I removed it the camera apparently started working again (finger crossed! I will discover when I will have my film processed).
    The strange thing is that the official Hasselblad Italian Repair Center changed this part on my request 3 and half years ago, after I read this thread and this one too:
    Hasselblad heartbreak
    Apparently it is a common problem. I wanted it changed and checked because I bought this 203 FE camera body second hand from KEH as a back-up of my primary 203FE body and noticed that the flexible foam was cracked. Since then I shot less than 150 rolls, not much, don't you think? Strange enough I never had problem in the previous 11 years of use of my first 203FE body bought used in 2005 (in that occasion that body too was serviced and that part have been changed but since then I never used, only exercized once in a while).
    I will have it replaced again (€€€) by the Hasselblad repair center (the repairman in the past told me he would not sell me the spare part) but I fear to have the problem again in the near future, also because I don't know if the spare part he uses is the old one or the new one (Hasselblad at one point changed the material).
     
  17. It is clear to me that one part of the baffle is connected to the thin metal part glued just above the shutter curtain and the rubbery piece flexes; what is not clear to me is: does the baffle (the plastic part that came apart) is attached to the mirror too? If yes, how is attached to it? If not, how does the baffle lift up when the mirror goes up?
     
  18. Hi Diego,

    Post #39 of the thread you linked (Hasselblad heartbreak) shows the entire piece - old broken and new installed. The replacement part comes with double sided adhesive on the plate that attaches above the film gate. The flap is bent up against the back of the mirror, and gets trapped by the secondary mirror/ GMS arm when the mirror goes up. It is not fastened to the mirror in any way.

    The flexing part was thin rubber foam material, which got brittle when it aged, and since stock of that part has not been made in a few decades, all the NOS foam parts are brittle. For later versions, Hasselblad replaced the foam with shutter curtain material which had better aging properties, but the part Hasselblad NJ send me was the old stock foam, and it lasted a few months before breaking off (again!). I did not replace it again, I was going to re-manufacture the part with shutter curtain material as I have 2 broken ones... but I have not done that yet. The camera works fine without the baffle, and I have seen no evidence of light leaks. If the sun was angled overhead and shining down onto the back corner of the screen, I could potentially see some light leakage on the bottom of the image, but I don't and I have not.

    I would not recommend having it replaced, the current parts stock is likely old foam, so it won't last. If you really must have it replaced, then make sure the repair is done with a V2 part that did not use foam.
     
  19. Thank you Tom for your replay.
    If I find a cloth shutter material (even from others cameras shoul be ok, isn't it?) I could try to make it myself, in this case wich kind of glue do you recommend to use?
    Do you know other kind of cloth that are ok instead of shutter curtain cloth?
    Probably it is possibile to glue the baffle on the metal plate without removing it from the body (it seems to me it is firmly glued on the body and I fear to damage something if I try to detach it), isn't it?
    Thank you.

    Diego
     
  20. Any light tight flexible material should work, shutter curtains were designed to flex on every actuation. The raw rubberized silk/synthetic cloth is available from repair supplies or that auction site, and probably craft stores.

    The double sided adhesive is probably a 3M product, just gently pry it off with a thin medical spatula or knife blade. Trigger the camera on B, and remove the battery (or a similar sequence of operations), and the shutter should stay open. Warming it up helps soften the adhesive. For gluing the cloth, I'd probably use a polyurethane adhesive, but a decent contact adhesive would probably work better.
     

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