Hasselblad CFV 16 Problems

<p>I picked up a used CVF 16. It's giving me quite a few problems, but I have another two weeks to return it. I was hoping to get some input on whether anyone else has had these problems as well. I've tried calling Hasselblad-Bron (USA) service, but I'm guessing they're closed today as no one is picking up the phone.<br /> <br />The back came from a very reputable seller--they will take it back. The serial number suggests it was made in 2006. It has 1006 actuations and "on time" of 3 days, 20 hours, 9 minutes. <br /> <br />Here are the problems I'm having (I have the instruction manual--it, as well as a forum-search, have not been helpful)<br /> 1) The back is not saving <em>any</em> images. CF card is brand new. I ordered a replacement CF card in case it's the problem. When the back boots up it reads "no media" at the top right, but this changes to "card." I'm not sure if that's the normal booting process. It always reads "empty batch" when it finishes booting. Often randomly it'll say "bad image" when I try to delete the image I took. <br /> 2) For a short while the back wasn't even capturing images. It's tough to tell, but the screen would change just as when I took a photo, but it would be blank. I could still get to the menu. This went away after I removed the battery and put it back in. Just seemed a little odd. For all I know it was capturing the image, but because of problem #1, there's no way to actually tell. <br /> 3) The alarm sounds terrible. I gather it used to be a chime sounds, but now it sounds like a speaker on it's last leg. I turned off all sound, but it will still go off at what seem to be random times, like if I try to zoom in on an image, etc. A few times the alarm would not stop--the only way to get it to stop was to remove the battery.<br /> 4) The red warning light will often flash at those times and won't stop--often with a "low exposure warning" and a random blip every so often. I can't turn the back off at those times--the only way to do so is to remove the battery. <br /> 5) The fan seems rather loud--is that normal? How often do you find the fan comes on in normal usage?<br>

<br /> I have tried taking about 50 shots, all to no avail. Not a single one has stored.</p>

<p>I do know the speaker is dying. That part is pretty clear. I tried restoring default functions. I will get a new battery to try out today (in addition to the other CF card), but I doubt that's the issue, as mine is fully charged. Just wondering if anyone else has had issues like this and if they were easily remedied. I get this is an aging back, but if it can't actually capture images and makes a terrible sound at inopportune times, it's definitely going to get returned.<br>

<br /> I am using the back on a 501C. I have it set for the 500 series. Exposure time at <1/8th second. Firmware revision 168.</p>

<p>The CF card may be mis-formatted. Format it as FAT32, using a computer, then format again in the camera to set up the proper registry.</p>

<p>It is not reliable to use the mechanical exposure coupling in anything other than a late model 501CM or 503CW body. The most reliable method is to use a sync cable from the lens to the back (3.5 mm to 2.5 mm TRS), and the appropriate setup.</p>

<p>If you set the exposure time to 1/8 second, you cannot exceed that value without causing an error. Furthermore, every shot will have a minimum spacing of 1/8 second, up to 32 seconds, depending on the setting. If you use the sync cable mode, there are no limitations on exposure time (up to 32 seconds).</p>

<p>Make sure you have the latest firmware installed in the back.</p>

<p>These "solutions" are non-destructive. Ultimately your best option may be to return the back. </p>

<p>How/where do you get the latest firmware? And is there any way to install it from the CF card? My firewire cable is too thick to fit into the back.<br>

<br />I will try formatting the CF card and see if that helps. I get a CF reader today as well (I didn't realize the back wouldn't work with my firewire cable, and it didn't come with the Hasselblad one)</p>

<p>Why is using the mechanical exposure coupling less reliable in a 501C compared to a late 501CM?</p>

<p>That the back first reads "no media" and then "card" when booting is normal. I have used my backs mainly on 500C/M, 501CM and modiefied 203FE. None have given problems. My only real problem with the CFV-16 was that it produced only stripes at temperatures around 40 °C. haven't had that with my current CFV-50.</p>

<p>It took a while of searching, but it looks like the firmware is here:<br>

http://www.hasselblad.com/support/manuals/medium-format-firmware/<br>

I take it that I need the R270 firmware for "CF-22/MS, 39/MS, CFII-22/MS, 39/MS, CFV, CFVII, CFV-39, 503CWD" correct? The CFV and CFVII refer to the 16mp backs?<br>

If anyone has the most recent firmware, can you tell me what it reads when you check it? I'm assuming it would read "270" as opposed to the "168" mine says, but I just want to double-check</p>

<p>Use firmware for the CFV16 you have, probably version I. The easiest way to load it is with an otherwise blank CF card. Instructions are included with the download from Hasselblad.</p>

<p> You can buy cables with smaller FW800 connectors. If you don't have a FW800 card in your computer, get a FW400 to FW800 cable. There is no problem with compatibility, just speed of transfer of 400 v 800.</p>

<p>Mechanical synchronization is activated by an extension of the shutter release which protrudes into the back. Accuracy depends on the timing and consistency of the camera, which are more consistent in a newer model. In timing, the mirror must go up, shutter and diaphgragm close, auxillary shutter open, and the shutter open and close for the exposure. Everything is reset when you wind the camera. You have no direct control over the timing, other than settings in some versions of the CFV firmware (not the latest).</p>

<p>With a sync cable to the lens, the contact closes the instant the shutter is fully open for the exposure, then opens when the shutter closes again. It's simple and direct, with the inconvenience of a separate cable which must be re-attached when you change lenses. The CFV came with a coil sync cable, which I abhor. I bought a short (1') non-coiled cable (and spares) from Paramount Cables.</p>

<p>I prefer to use a 555ELD motorized body, which has electronic contacts to sync the CFV back. The downside, it's a 3 pound brick to carry, nearly 6" tall with a prism. Model 200 bodies can be factory modified to electronically sync too, for about $400 at Hasselblad New Jersey. That buys you use of the focal plane shutter (still needs a cable for the lens shutter), auto exposure control, an electronic self timer and an instant-return mirror.</p>

<p>I'm going to have to special order the FW800--the one I had is too large. According to the firmware instructions you need to plug it in, so I guess I can't transfer the firmware via the CF card.<br>

Can you confirm if I was looking at the right firmware for the back? the R270 firmware. <br>

I'm going to try to call Hasselblad on Monday, but I don't think I'll be bringing my camera to work, so all I can do is troubleshoot a little over the phone, then try the updates when I get home. Most likely I can't get a FW800 cable that fits until Mon/Tues/Wed at the earliest. It looks like TetherPro makes a 15ft cable they say works with the CFV 50, but it's 15ft long. I'll probably just try to expedite one of the short Hasselblad ones from B&H</p>

 

<p>I tried a new battery, new CF card (formatted--on the computer and camera), and used a 203FE. Still no luck--the images still aren't saving. <br>

<br />That leaves just updating the firmware (unless Hasselblad has anything else to say on Monday). Hopefully most of the problems I'm having the the alarm/freezing up are due to the card not fully syncing, which will hopefully be resolved by a firmware update. <br>

The speaker isn't going to be fixed by that as I assume it's just the speaker has aged/broken down so it cannot produce the correct notes anymore, but if the firmware fixes the problems then hopefully I won't hear any alarms in the first place. <br>

<br />I ordered the Hasselblad FW800 cable. It's expensive, but I figure it's worth the shot since I felt I got a good deal on this back considering it's condition--but that assumes that it works!!</p>

<p>Final update: I tried calling Hasselblad today but unfortunately I didn't get off work in time and they just closed. I did get to talk to the seller though--they said if for whatever reason the back gets bricked during a firmware update (I figure that's the only option left at this time) then it would not be covered under their return policy or their warranty. It may be the exact thing they try when they get it, but given the cost of the back and how much I had to stretch my budget to get even a used CFV 16, it just isn't worth the risk of doing it myself. </p>

<p>That's the best choice. The noisy fan and buzzy beeper, plus failure to record images may indicate a rough life. I still wouldn't expect good performance with a 501C except with a sync cable. It is a bit of a nuisance, but that's what I did for nearly 8 years, lugging it around along with a large tripod, for travel and landscapes.</p>

I was fortunate enough to have another chance to acquire a CFV at a good deal from a nice guy locally. Fortunately this time it works--no issues with capturing the image, with a dying speaker, endless alarm sounds, etc. For reference, I use it with a recently CLA'd 501C.

 

I'm hoping someone can help me with a few questions. None are critical problems, and my hunch is to leave things as they are.

 

I am using a firwire cable to both try to charge the internal battery (in case it still works at all and can hold a charge). When I plug it in and open Phocus, Phocus asks me if I want to register it. I answer "yes" and then the back alarms and lists error firewire #9002, restart back. I try and it doesn't fix anything. I also don't seem to be able to upload any files from the back into Phocus, nor can I upload them from the CF card into Phocus anymore--I was able to upload via CF card prior to updating Phocus, but after I uploaded it Phocus doesn't show any thumbnails. I don't see any "dummy" error causing it, but I'm sure I'm doing something stupid. Once the back charges I can also try to reinstall Phocus if there's no easy fix.

 

Any idea on the error code? I did get the error once or twice when trying to access the CF card via Phocus. Now when I access it I just don't see any files in the folder. (Note, I can upload files fine through a CF card reader using Lightroom. Is there any reason to use Phocus instead of Lightroom? Does Phocus allow you to cancel out dead pixels or anything?

 

Right now I'm running firmware 267, which is the second-to-last one release (270 is the most recent). It doesn't look like 270 had that much of an update (it looks like I can just user a bigger CF card, but 16gb and 32gb are way more than enough for me). I don't want to updated the firmware because there's a warning saying if the camera comes unplugged you basically risk bricking the unit. Seeing as I'm getting this error code and the back works great and isn't easy to replace (or repair--if even still serviced), it doesn't seem worth it to risk updating the firmware for what appears to be a minor improvement that I wouldn't use.

 

Last question-the back fits tightly (as did the one I tested out prior). I assume this is quite normal. Do those of you who use a CFV typically have a dedicated body for it? I'm just curious over the long-term if it increases the risk of damaging my camera body if I'm swapping backs out, since I still plan to shoot B&W film.

Do you no you have to slide the safety release before attaching the back. It's the one you have to slide to release the main latch. Otherwise the latch won't retract enough to engage the body properly. It will seem to be a tight fit, but it's not safe. (Don't ask). AFIK there are no adjustments to the fit with the camera, either the camera or the back. Te latch is tapered slightly to take up any slack.

 

Firewire is unreliable on a PC, slightly better on a Mac. In a PC, you must go into the Device Control applet and select the legacy driver. Otherwise, Phocus may not be able to establish a good connection. Fortunately, FW800 is backwards compatible with FW400, using a simple adapter or cable. Don't attempt a firmware update. 2.67 is just fine, and what I'm using.

 

The error code, 9002, is related to the Firewire connection. It may be a damaged cable. Even a kink or pinch is sufficient. Try a new cable, or use FW400 instead of the fussy FW800.

 

I think you can update the firmware from a memory card. It's been years for me, so check it out. That's safer than a cable connection (especially with a PC).

 

The menu specifies whether the back is tethered or stand-alone. Other than early experimentation, I've always removed the card for transfer to the computer. Phocus is a PITA. The few lens corrections it offers are duplicated in Lightroom. Phocus may have an option whether to generate thumbnails. Lightroom does it automatically.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Ed_Ingold

The back does have the safety--it's just a very tight fit so it's hard to remove the back, particularly with having to manipulate the safety release in addition to the standard release.

 

I am using a Mac, and I purchased a brand new firewire cable from B&H. There are no visible kinks or problems with the cable. Given the back's age I wonder if there could be a problem with the firewire connection on the back? Though it works well enough to charge the internal battery and establish a good enough connection to tell me Phocus in controlling the back (when Phocus is open).

 

I tried installing the firmware on the CF card--that worked ok. Previously when I tried it asked me to connect the firewire, which I didn't want to do because I interpreted that to mean it was still going to update via the Firewire. When I tried again just now (with it connected to the firewire to charge) it worked fine--it looks like the back just wanted to be powered by the firewire, as Phocus wasn't even open.

 

I still get the same firewire error when I try to register the product through Phocus. I also still can't see any of the files in the CF card through Phocus. But the back still otherwise works fine.

 

Is it normal for the CFV to not show up as a connected disk when plugged in via firewire?

I think the CFV menu has separate options for remote control and data transfer.

Both the original CFV16 and the second version have a safety release for the main latch. You must press this to one side to release the back via the main latch (which is otherwise identical to the latch on film backs), and also when installing the back so that the latch fully engages the camera body..

 

It disturbs me that you say it isn't there. Not using it correctly would account for the "tight fit" you describe.

 

FireWire connectors are easily damaged. Even though deeply set, the connector on the CFV is still vulnerable. It might be reparable in New Jersey, but in all likelihood they would send it to Sweden.

Ed-- my back does have the safety release for the main latch. What I mean is the back is a tight fit when trying to pull it from the camera body. A12 backs are very easy to attach/remove, whereas the CFV is fairly easy to attach, but requires two hands to remove. It does not feel like I am forcing the back off--it just feels like the back was built with very tight tolerances (probably to ensure proper fit--A12 backs can shift a little around on the body). The back I had tried previously back in January was the same.

 

I will give B&H a call after I try using a re-installed version of Phocus. I am not sure if they would be willing to send me a replacement Firewire cable if I can't say with certainty that their cable is the problem or if it's my CFV, but it's worth asking them.

Something is bent or misaligned. If your film backs fit okay, the CFV needs servicing. The latch on the back is not retracting enough to clear the latch plate (pin) in the body.

 

The FW800 connector on the CFV is deeply recessed. Not all cables engage correctly. Connectors are fragile, and your's may have been compromised.

 

New Jersey can handle some CFV repairs, and will coordinate a return to the factory if necessary.

Are you saying the CFV should be as easy to remove from the body as an A12 back? I feel that would be too loose for such a heavy back that requires such precise alignment. The only other CFV back I tried out was the same--it takes more force to pull the back from the body, but they do disengage. I can't imagine both backs weren't machined well. I do not feel the tightness is at all related to the release latch--it seems more related to the latch prongs themselves are likely thicker than the A12 back, leading to a tighter fit with the female portion of the latch on the body.

 

I will give Hasselblad a call, though I do not believe CFV repairs are cheap by any means, and I may just opt instead to live with the firewire issue, as the back still functions great overall.

 

I am still considering buying a dedicated body for the CFV, as I think that would solve the bigger issue, which is the ease of changing backs in the field (and the risk of damaging the sensor when doing so).

My CFV is no harder to attach or remove than any other back in my possession, nor on any of my three bodies, except for the additional step for safety. If I hold the safety latch, the back attaches freely, with no more resistance than I expect from a film back.

 

There is nothing on an Hasselblad which requires more than the strength of two fingers, much less two hands, to assemble or disassemble.

 

The latch is tapered so that it pulls the back into tight contact when engaged. That's true of film backs too, Lateral play might amount to a few thousandths of an inch, which is inconsequential. A few thousandths fore and aft would change the plane of focus, and that does not occur in my cameras. They lock up tight, but come free easily.

 

If the CFV attaches with difficulty, I suspect that it is misaligned in some fashion, or the hooks on the body have been bent or damaged. If it attaches freely it's possible that coupling between the release button and the latches in the back has been damaged, so that they no longer retract enough to clear the hooks. That could be cause by wear, or forcing the back to engage without releasing the safety.

 

I'm sure that's something New Jersey could repair, or any trained technician. Electrical and connector problems probably go to Sweden. New Jersey did repair the battery connectors on mine, which became intermittent after considerable use.

Thanks. While it is easy to attach the back, it is definitely more difficult to detach. My A12 backs slide off by gravity if I pull the release on them (well, the body would fall off if I hold the back and slide the release lever). The CFV would not do this. I guess the back must have some deviation from the factory tolerances. I'll talk with Hasselblad about it. The back tolerance is the bigger issue for me as it being easier to remove would make it easier to swap in the field. If it doesn't cost much more to repair the electronics then I can ask them to do that as well, assuming the cost to fix the tolerance issue is reasonable.

The latches in the back should retract so that only about 1/2 mm remains visible in the slot. Compare your CFV to one of your A12 backs.

As I'm looking at one of these backs myself, I'm interested to know if you have had any other experiences with yours.