Harassed by Police for photography on playground. (Memory card confiscated and harassed by police)

I was shooting in a playground in a public park which to the best of my knowledge is still legal. My parter

and I were enjoying the day, talking to parents, shooting pictures of kids at play. No one seemed to have

a problem. We decided to move on and about 30 seconds after we drive off the police pull us over and

start grilling us. They take our cameras and leave us sitting in the car for a good 25 minutes-half an hour

we are then informed that our cameras are being confinscated because we have images of children and an

investigation will be opened.

 

We get directions to the police station which turned out to be WRONG sending us through 3 miles of the

worst area of Detroit when we realized hey we're headed in the wrong direction. We turn around and

arrive at the police station; before we even reach the front desk a detective comes at us "let me save you

some time if i EVER SEE YOU TAKING PICTURES AROUND CHILDREN AGAIN I WILL PIN SOMETHING ON YOU

AND FUCK YOU OVER."

 

We did get our cameras back but they refused to return our memory cards "pending investigation."

 

To the best of my knowledge my partner and I were well within our rights I beleive the general rule is

"Anyone in a public place can be photographed without their consent except when they have a reasonable

expectation of privacy" (Bert P Krages, Rights and Remedies when Confronted for Photography 2004)

 

Am I wrong? Has anyone had similar problems? What course of action would you recommend? (i dont

want to sue or anything i jus want to make sure i dont end up in any legal hot water or be labeled a sex

offender or something along those lines.)

I recently attended a nature preserve that had a newly opened really fantastic play area for children.

 

My wife nad I went to the exit area of a rope bridge and I wanted to photograph the children coming off the the bridge. The group`s teacher went nuts. You would think I was tying them up and drowning them.

 

My wife, who is a teacher, informed me this is a big NO NO. Rules at her school too.

 

My granddaughter and classmates have had some man photographing the kids on the school playground. The local police got real serious about it.

 

I think the problem is the pics are used to advertise children who may be kidnapped and sold. The dirty deeds of a few reflect on rules being imposed on all. All sad the way are freedoms are going, but IF that is what pics are used for, we will have to forgo it.

"Am I wrong? Has anyone had similar problems? What course of action would you recommend? (i dont want to sue or anything i jus want to make sure i dont end up in any legal hot water or be labeled a sex offender or something along those lines."

 

You need to be talking to your attorney(s), not us. If you were in a public space and not committing a crime, and what happened to you per your accounting is factual, you should be pissed off. Call yer goon. It's his job to sort it out. Might want to contact local press as well.

 

Next time, do not give up your camera. Let them beat it off you if they want, but do not volunteer a thing, not even if they threaten to book you - let 'em. Go peacefully.

 

C.

Vincent, get an attorney.

 

Ronald, that's BS. The 'rules of the school' have no bearing on YOU in a public setting. Now, the 'nature preserve' may have rules governing photography, and you have to abide by them - it is up to us to know the rules of private property - and parks, etc also - when we go out to shoot. However, if it was public property, then their 'school rules' don't mean jack to you.

 

And no, I will not forgo my rights. Photos of kids who may be kidnapped and sold? Are you kidding? Name ONE TIME that has happened in the US. ONE TIME. ONE EXAMPLE of someone posting a photo of a child as an advertisement who was then kidnapped and sold.

 

That's flat-out unacceptable.

"I think the problem is the pics are used to advertise children who may be kidnapped and sold. The dirty deeds of a few reflect on rules being imposed on all. <b>All sad the way are freedoms are going, but IF that is what pics are used for, we will have to forgo it.</b>"

<p>

Fook. That. Where does it end? I take a photo of a bank, bank gets robbed, I'm responsible for having posted a clear image of the bank on-line which provoked a crook to find it thinking to himself, "Ooh, what a hot little bank... I wanna violate him...."?

<p>

Utterly ridiculous. Totally fallacious - banning photographing of kids-not-yours in the public space will NOT stop child-pornography, kidnapping, murder, rape, etc. Won't even dent it.

<p>

C.

Thanks to those who have replyed thus far, I've left a message with my Laywer already and

expect to hear back sometime tomorrow.

 

I'm sure you understand I was shaken up and very very angry when I finally returned home

today as I stated before I was operating with the knowledge of Mr.Krages pamphlet and

common sense when it comes to photography in public. The ultimate irony is if anyone

had asked us to not photograph their children I would have happily obliged, all the parents

I talked to during the day were perfectly fine with the situation.

 

We'll see what the laywer says tomorrow.

Careful - you might be declared an enemy combatant.

The reality is that a lot of parents object, absent their consent, to their children being photographed.

 

Your position, Vincent, is that that they consent unless they catch you at it and object.

 

Are you serious?

 

For those of you who don't understand this, and especially those of you who are American and have a tendency to lecture the rest of us about freedom, the fact of the matter is that there are big signs in every Manhattan public playground area that prohibits adults from entering unless they are accompanied by children.

 

I would be very interested in hearing on this subject from someone who disagrees with that bylaw and especially from someone who says that he has actually vioilated it.

 

In my view, it is truly extraordinary that every time this issue comes up, participants in this part of photo.net, and the Americans in particular, immediately turn the discussion into a debate about the American constitution.

Sounds as though you are in the Detroit Metro Area. You should consider communicating with <a href=http://www.aclumich.org/>the ACLU of Michigan</a> as well. <p>

 

Your counsel should be able to determine what, if anything, is being "investigated" and on what basis your memory cards have been seized. <p>

 

Reports such as yours, while they are by no means daily occurrences, are cause for concern.<p>

 

Please let us know how this turns out.

In case what I am saying is not crystal clear:

 

Not every issue in life is a legal issue; and

 

Parents who happen to have guardianship over their kids don't necessarily appreciate their kids being photographed by every self-appointed street photographer on the planet.

 

I want to add something else. There are cultures, such as in the Middle East, that take serious objection to Americans doing whatever the hell they want photographically on the basis that their laws, as photographers (if not parents) perceive them ought to apply universally.

Mr. Edge,

There are no signs or notices prohibiting photography of any kind at this location.

 

 

Michael S,

 

Thank you for the suggesting, pending my lawers advice.... we'll see what happens.

Well, Robert, I was typing as you were posting, but I'll plead 'guilty' to being one of the Americans here who truly believes that the U.S. Constitution has a First Amendment and a Fourth Amendment, and that both of them have genuine meaning.

 

Sure don't mean to be one of those misguided photo.net "lecturers" you're complaining about, but that's my position and I'm unlikely to abandon it anytime soon. :-)

Hey Vincent, go ahead, turn this into a legal issue and take it all the way to the US Supreme Court. I mean, it has to be right up there with the major political issues facing the US, right?

Robert - he's in Detroit, not in the Middle East. I don't care how they <i>do it</i> in the ME.<p>

Not appreciating something does not warrant having another individual harrassed by law enforcement. Period. The individuals I photograph who are in the process of being arrested for whatever reason have no more leg to stand on than the parent who objects picture-takers at the park.<p>If the poster is on the level, then the cops have some explaining to do. They should enforce laws on the books, nothing more, nothing less.<p>

C.

Michael, yes they have meaning. But you know, there is such as thing as perspective. Running off to the ACLU about this, given that there are real-life human rights issues in the US (as there are in every country), strikes me as kind of silly. I don't know, I guess I'd just like to think that the ACLU has better things to do with its time.

Civil rights issues ARE major issues, ARE human rights issues. If yer not a US citizen, then what is your beef? You've no dog in this fight. As to what the ACLU or any other legal group has time for is up to them.

Here are a couple of issues that the ACLU is concerned with that are perhaps more important. Whether the US is going to join the rest of the civilized world (leaving its co-religionists, such as Iraq, Iran, North Korea and Chinea) and abolish the death penalty. Or, whether the US is going to join Europe and other English-speaking countries like the UK and Canada in letting gay people serve openly in the military. Or whether people are going to get a universal right to medical care.

 

As someone who has spent many years in the US and elsewhere, I find that a lot of what Americans say on this site about freedom, much of it based on the idea that there couldn't possibly be anyone here is not either American or working under an inferior legal system, and the immediate resort to "call your lawyer", just plain bizarre.

Nelson,

 

You are assuming a lot, wrongly, about my status in the US.

Alot of Detroit is made up now from folks from the Middle East. I went into a Kmart a few years back on US24/Telegraph and about 95% of the folks inside were from the Middle East. Detroit is considered the Arab capital of North America by many folks, with about 400,000 folks there.

The fact is, a lot of parents, probably the majority, probably even a vast majority, don't want strangers photographing their kids.

 

Sure, you can respond to this by treating it as nothing but a legal issue about your rights. If you wanted to take it far enough, I guess you could even sue a parent for damaging you or your camera while preventing you from taking a photograph of his kid.

 

But you know, maybe that isn't the most intelligent response, however legally correct it may be (unless one happens to be in a playground in New York).

My suggestion to call counsel was due to my not being an attorney. My remark about your nationality was based on your "and especially those of you who are American and have a tendency to lecture the rest of us about freedom" comment which I felt meant you were not a US citizen. Makes no difference to me either way. If you are an American, then you have a leg to stand on with me. If not, what you think about American's concepts of freedom matters little.

 

As for your take on the ACLU agenda, I think there are plenty of issues for the ACLU to tackle, and they take on what they decide to pursue. You seem to think the ACLU just falls face-forward onto any case shoved under its nose. Not so.

 

Such an issue as the one put forth for our consideration is to my mind of the utmost importance, for it has much to do with our ability to address other, larger, more severe social problems. Freedom of speech and expression are paramount in my opinion; allowing either to be destroyed by paranoia would be tragic.

 

C.

Kelly,

 

Interesting. Go to Amman and start exercising your First Amendment Rights by photographing veiled women without permission. Or for that matter, go to Jerusalem and photograph an Arab kid. Watch while he places his arm over his face, and feel proud of yourself. I'm speaking from experience.

"The fact is, a lot of parents, probably the majority, probably even a vast majority, don't want strangers photographing their kids."

 

Then let them build private playgrounds for their cherubic young and hole themselves up in enclaves for the paranoid.

"Interesting. Go to Amman and start exercising your First Amendment Rights"

 

Yer out of yer mind, buddy. Here, I'm gonna down another 20mg of Adderall just for you.

 

C.

<i>if i EVER SEE YOU TAKING PICTURES AROUND CHILDREN AGAIN I WILL PIN SOMETHING ON

YOU AND FUCK YOU OVER."</i><p>Sounds like an entirely professional and well adjusted

officer of the peace to me.