"Guest" Photographer???

Here is just a small recap of what happend to me today, and pleas let me know

if this had ever happend to any of you. I was hired by the bride and groom (the

bride is my cousin) to do their engagement, guestbook and wedding photography.

Everything had gone really well untill the wedding today when a guest from the

grooms side shows up with his Canon D20,EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM lens, and I

kid you not...his assistant... aghhh what a frustrating day. Normaly I would

have walked off the job the second he steped in from of me as the bride walked

down the isle but it was my cousins wedding so I stayed and he shot over my

shoulder every second of the day. I even asked him as I was shooting the

formals if he would like his go at posing the 30 people when I was finished so

he could take his own, but he declined and kept shooting in my way for the rest

of the day with his "assitant" following close behind... agh... I dunno I guess

that is why you dont mix family and business. what is done is done now but i

cant shake this fusterated angry feeling! Any advice on what I should have

done? I try not to be too confrontational but in this situation I almost felt

the need for some violence....... jk jk.... well maybe not....

sorry above that was a 20d ( im just angry and typing exhausted)

I've not had a situation like that but during formals when people are standing next to me and everyone is looking everywhere else but the photographer, I've put my camera down, made an announcement that I will continue when everyone is finished but I cannot work like this. I say it in a calm and relaxed voice, not threatening or nasty, just a simple statement of fact. If I can make a joke out of it I will, in packages where I give the negs I reasure them that they will be able to make as many copies of the pro pics as they want for next to nothing and there is no need for the phalanx of people photographing alongside me.

 

Usually solves the problem. Most people waiting in the group could care less about the millions of p&s's and don't put up with the waiting. They understand that I cannot work like that.

 

Trick is to always talk with a smile in your voice and on your face, protects your reputation while still mastering the situation and avoids the 'pushy' photographer tag that wedding photography is so often saddled with.

 

When I see a family member who is working up close with an SLR or the like I take them aside and ask them as a favour to keep behind me during the ceremony. Chupa ceremonies are stupidly tight and it's almost impossible to do if there is someone else there with an SLR trying to get the rapidly changing must have shots and moments, it's bad enough with a videographer though with them we work out a strategy beforehand to keep out of each others way during the chupa.

That wasn't your only typo! I can't type very well myself! Was there a contract? Was anything written in the contract about other shooters during the formals? If not get a contract made. Even bookstores have simple ones. Instead of getting angry and sooo upset ask the bride/groom that there photo's will greatly suffer because of the people being photographed will be looking at all sorts of other cameras, and NOT yours. Do a search, this was just talked about a week or so ago. There is no reason for you to put up with this. Good luck.

Any chance the "guest photographer" feels the same way about you? Sounds like the bride found her own photographer, and the groom went out and found his. If he was truly operating without the blessing of the couple it should have been easy enough to explain the problem, and ask that the guest stay out of your way. Do it politely and calmly, and if anyone loses their temper you look cool and professional, and they look like an ass. If it turns out they hired him too, then refund their money, get some food, and sit down and enjoy the party.

Kelly,

 

You have to be confrontational. You can be nice, but you have to manage any problems

that come between you and getting the job done.

 

In a difficult situation that cannot be managed by you, go to the top. Be blunt and ask the

bride what she wants to do as soon as you notice anything hindering your work. Be very

direct in your communication so there is no confusion about what you need to get the job

you were hired to do done. If this joker was getting in your way and you were unable to

get the expected images, then there is nothing that you can do or say afterwords to make

the bride understand your position. However, he will stop shooting if she is upset with his

antics during the wedding. At the least he will stay out of your way.

 

The worst idea is to be silent during the shoot while getting increasingly angry about the

intruder. You have no idea who he was or why he was there, and this could have been

remedied with a quick conversation with him. Again, be direct. If he does not stop or give

you room to work, go to the bride.

 

And you are right, don't mix family and business. Let them hire another photographer,

and you can be the nuisance story that we are reading on Sunday.

You simply need to "hire" one assistant, about 6' 5" and 250 pounds in girth. He (or she) stands behind you and refuses to budge until you are finished. If the other photographer complains, so be it.

This is a tricky situation and must be dealt with carefully and with respect to all parties involved. Remember that the "guest" photographer is (most likely) either a member of the family or a friend of the bride and groom - so treat them well!!! My sister-in-laws photographer gave me a VERY hard time about having my camera and a few lenses at her wedding. It changed my whole perspective about being the "other" photographer. My family lives all over the country so when we are all in one place I want to take TONS of photos.

 

When I have "guest" photographers at weddings I like to talk to them about why they LOVE taking pictures and about the GREAT photos they want to get that day. I let them be excited! I talk to them about what I can do to stay out of there way and I let them know what things will help me get the WONDERFUL photos I was hired to take. Just because I am the OFFICIAL photographer does not mean I have to be the ONLY photographer.

The wedding is done it was a family job don't worry about just forget about it.

Shooting for family/friends can be a recipe for extreme weirdness. Did you have a contract. Were you paid to shoot the wedding? You charged your own cousin to shoot their wedding? Who was this guest that showed up with an assistant,....did he have a contract? How do you put up with a situation like this all day?

 

No,.....I've never had this happen and there's never been any confusion on who the primary photographer was when I covered all my weddings.

We seem to be getting this particular issue more and more here - it sounds like it's something that needs to have the B & G's attention drawn to in the contract - along with an agreed protocol that will be implimented in the event of this term being breached.

Keep this simple Kelly:

 

This was family; process your photos, say nothing, let it go.

 

When you see the other photos just oohh and aahhh with everyone else and smile. Be above it all.

 

Let it go completely; there is no other peaceful resolve and only anger if any other route is advanced.

What Colin said: Contract this item carefully; not only what the limits are but the clear consequences of breach.

 

 

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(I won't even start down the road of other visual media in the way ... umm, let's see, the videographer! lol.)

Just an old rookie learning from the pros but my first leason was that all the bumps have to be ironed out in the contract and the pre event meet. When I apprenticed it was made clear that after all the brides formals and group photos are done, If there was time and ok with the bride then you can shoot all you want. She would not shoot if one flash went off.

Howdy!

 

Please understand that I am offering advice in a spirit of cooperation.

 

Let's assume that the photographer was invited to the wedding as a guest and not a professional. Unless you completely ban photographs at all times (which will make you very unpopular), guests can show up with whatever equipment they can carry. If the "assistant" is invited as part of the guests family (or even a date), it's really none of your business.

 

Your only legitimate complaint (and it is a VERY legitimate complaint) is that the guest got in your way. There are many ways to deal with this circumstance, but all involve some sort of confrontation. You must assert yourself as the primary photographer.

 

The best way to do that is to put very specific rules in the contract regarding people taking pictures during the formals, getting in your way, etc.

 

At a recent wedding, I was told that another wedding photographer would be attending from out of town, but she would be there to enjoy the occasion and not take very many pictures. She showed up with a 20D, an EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS lens, a 580EX, and a LightSphere.

 

None of this was a problem for me, and we spent a lot of time together talking shop during the quieter moments. I got great shots, she got great shots, and everybody was happy, including the B&G.

 

Later,

 

Paulsly

Paul T, like your approach.

 

Kelly, take it in your stride...

 

One more reason to be paid (in full) ahead of the day.

Best, D.

Yes, what others have said: Deal with it directly, but politely. Family and friends want to get their photos, too. You have a job to do, but do it professionally with a friendly side-talk to assess and address the situation.

 

I've dealt with this as a photographer on the other side, a few years back at my cousin's wedding. I had a DSLR and was taking my own photos during the ceremony. The hired photog, rather than talk to me or say anything, he just got in front of me to block my view of the ceremony! No problem, I put my camera on a monopod and shot over his shoulder. At the reception, he kept getting in my way, so I gave my DSLR to my cousin (bride's brother) and let him shoot, while I pulled out my film SLR and shot away. Never did we get in his way (we stayed on the sidelines with the rest of the family), but he sure had a headache trying to figure out which one of us to block all night. He sure did look bad, and the family got a laugh out of it.

I was VERY clear (as the Bride) with my main photographer that I would be having a back up photographer at my wedding. He stated that he had no problem with it. What I was unclear about was the role of my "guest" photographer and he allowed himself to be bullied by the main photographer. But the photographer NEVER gave me guidelines as to who could and could not take photos. Yet on the day of my wedding, he took it upon himself to tell my second photographer that he needed to make sure to stay out of his way. Well, the second photographer complied during the ceremony (sadly) but not afterwards and not at the reception. I was soooo glad b/c the first photographer took 37 pictures of my cake and none of people at the reception. I was very clear to him that I would be making a digital coffee table book and wanted a storybook wedding with many candids of my friends and family.

 

Now, from a photographer side, I really try to encourage the B&G to buy a cd up front so then anyone else who takes pics isn't stressing me out because I've already been paid for the services that I'm providing. And David, I DO charge my friends and family b/c my enemies won't hire me! HAHA!

In Response to David S.

There was no contract, she offered to pay me but we never discussed a specific amount. Im no worried about the money I worried about having something great to deliver and when I position my self at the end of the isle to photograph her walking in and a 6'2 man with an 18" lens steps out of the pew right in front of me it really makes me mad... and he litterally stuck that thing right over my shoulder the whole rest of the night. And as for charging my cousin I married into a family where my husbands parents came fomr families of 20 ( atleast) and 10 kids, all who turned around and had familys of ten them self and cousins range in age from 3-80 and most have kids themself who are also of the age of getting married so there are hundreds of relatives... I could have weddings every day of the year and not make a penny if I gave them away. ( but this was a special cousin so she got a deal) but it will bum me out if this guy hands them over a copy of all my work that he shot over my shoulder....

Kelly, your last post just changed my mind about everything. When you first wrote that you were hired, I assumed that meant you were getting paid. That made you the photographer, the one with a job to do and a responsibility to fulfill. In that case, you would have been well within your rights to politely, but firmly, tell him that you have been hired to capture the images that day and that if he wants to shoot, he'll have to do so in a way that doesn't interfere with what you're being p-a-i-d to do. Sometimes, you have to be forceful about this.

 

But, now you say that there was no contract and that you had no payment agreement. So, you couldn't say, "I'm the paid pro here and I really need you to help me do the best for the couple by allowing me some room." Now, it's a pro bono deal and anything goes. It becomes a paparazzi parade. Grin and bear it - and learn from it.

 

I see more digital point and shoots, as well as DSLR's, at each wedding I do. I make a point of stopping and turning to the group and telling them, "I have no problem with your taking pictures, but you have to wait until I'm done so that the group won't be distracted. After I'm done, I'll step aside and you can click away."

Everyone responds positively to that and cooperates. I add, "If your shots come out better than mine, then we're both in the wrong business."

 

The only photographers I have seen who have really been nasty and adamant about guests taking pictures are the ones who depend on the reprint business from the guests. I've seen some ugly confrontations, and the photographer never wins.

 

Today, there is no way to prevent people from whipping out their cameras and doing what they will do. In fact, I'm often the only one who is not using a flash during the ceremony. Most officiates don't want flash from the pro, but the guests flash away throughout.

 

I'm seeing more and more cameras being placed on the dinner tables for the guests to use. It's the age we live in.

 

All you can do is get the guests on your side so they will do their thing in a way that does not affect your performance. In the end, it comes down to people skills as much as anything else.

Rick, it's clear that Kelly was still treating it as a paid job even if she was not taking any monetary compensation and probably didn't have a signed contract.

 

It was clearly boorish of the other guy jumping in the way. Even worse was hanging over your shoulder. A waste of resources I'd say because all he'd get would be the same shots you were getting.

 

When I showed up at a friend's wedding with a Nikon D1, I sat at the back of the hall and took some snaps there. Sensitive to a pro's attitude, I politely asked the paid photographer if he objected to me taking shots and he was totally cool about it. In fact, he even wanted me to take a photo of him to send to his pen pal! It may have made some difference that he didn't need the income from reprints as he was being paid a flat day rate by the studio. I concentrated on taking candids and staying out of his way by going anywhere he wasn't.

 

Bride and groom were thrilled with the photos I had for them. I never got around to seeing the official album.<div></div>

Kelly, sounds like you've been blessed with a large family. Shooting for family and friends can get real weird. If I shoot family I don't charge anything and it's my wedding gift. If I'm shooting friends, casual or close, I still do my standard contract and show them my prices and give them a % discount so that we are clear about what I am giving them. I've got albums that actually costs more than the wedding coverage, I want to be sure that we are clear about exactly what I'm providing and how I am charging. Guests with cameras can be pushy and insensitive but part of what makes a wedding pro is his/her decorum/demeanor that comes with confidence and experience. I wouldn't tolerate someone jumping in front of me and can generally anticipate someone with an itchy shutter finger. I can also manage happy snappers so that we can joke and keep things pleasant. Shooting weddings is about 50% photography and 50% people skills. I don't know what was in that guys head, he may have discounted you as a photographer because you were family....he may have self-appointed his camera as a safety backup for you....my first guess is that he has aspirations of becoming a Craigslist photographer and was trying to put together some shots for his folio. With experience and training I suspect you'll develop a commanding presence and situations like this will become a distant memory. Hope this is helpful...feel free to ask for more info or to shoot me an email if you'd like. Good luck.

Kelly,

When I was doing weddings, ( did weddings for 30 years) I can remember two incidents where two individuals got in my way.

Before any wedding I did, I would announce to the guests what my guidelines were for the after wedding candids; and they were; I would pose the B&G as well as the wedding party, and I would take my pictures FIRST! then everyone else were free to take theirs. I also explained that since there was a reception after the posed pictures were done, I would not allow any "special" poses to be done.

I also told them since I had been hired to photograph the couples special day, I MUST insist that those who wanted to take photos to respect my rules.

If, after I had explained my gidelines, I had any furthe problems with a guest/guests, I spoke with both the B & G and this always took care of the problem.

In another case, I was retained to photograph a wedding at a wedding chapel that I sometimes worked. On the day of the wedding, I showed up about an hour early to spend some time with the chapel staff, and to find out if there had been any last minute changes.

The bridal party arrived, went into the brides dressing room to get ready.

As I waited for the bride and her party to get ready for the "before shots" in walks another guy with a ton of camera gear, and when I asked if he was a guest of the bride, he said "no, I am here to photograph their wedding."

I then went into the dressing room and told the bride and her mother, that since they had hired another photographer, it would be unethical for me to also photograph their wedding.

Richard Beisigl in California