Graflex 6x9 Plastic Handle Film Back Rare?

I've seen plenty of Graflex 6x9 film backs with wind knobs but rarely do I see any with the red plastic wind handle. At the moment I have a 6x7 on my customized Mamiya Press Standard which has the mount for Graflex backs. I'd love to fit a 6x9 back with handle wind but finding it difficult to secure one in good condition. Just wondering why they're so rare on eBay?

 

This pic shows one I have already but it doesn't wind properly and pretty much beyond repair

You don't see them on eBay anymore because A) the knob-wind backs far outnumber lever-wind backs to begin with, and B) everything Graflex has suddenly flipped into a collectible frenzy, so whatever "rarities" pop up get bought off-line ten minutes into the auction (before you ever see the listing). Its rather unfortunate your Press is a Graflok version: the more common Mamiya "M" mount backs are also in short local supply, but at least always readily available from Japanese sellers. As a recent Press convert myself, I'm a bit perplexed by the much higher prices fetched by Graflok bodies and adapter plates: G backs are limited to RB 6x7 or whatever 6x9 Graflex backs can be scrounged. The reverse-curl G backs are more compact, but the big ugly M backs hold film much flatter, and allow easier eye position at the viewfinder. Hobson's Choice, I suppose.

 

OT: I deeply regret not picking up a nice complete Graflex outfit five years ago when you could snag a clean body with lens and flash for $300 or less. Today, the flash guns alone go for $500+, driven by insane demand from truly demented 30-50 y/o Peter Pans who simply MUST rip them apart to make "authentic" light saber props for their Star Wars cosplay. I'd like to strangle the idiot LucasFilm prop designer who originally came up with the idea of dismembering these antiques: chances of putting together a complete "WeeGee" Graflex outfit for under $1000 are rapidly dwindling to zero as more and more flashes get destroyed by superfans.

 

The bodies, lenses and backs are being pulled along in the wake of this idiocy: cosplay twits overpay for complete Graflex outfits to harvest the overpriced flash, then try to recoup their costs by reselling the unwanted parts at inflated prices. This in turn spooks true Graflex enthusiasts, who are hoarding what they have against the onslaught. Another recent strand of cultists was snapping up Graflex for Polaroid/Fujiroid or 4x5 experimentation: as peel-apart instant film evaporates and they get disenchanted with the reality of 4x5, they get interested in roll film and go after 6x9 backs. Five years ago you couldn't give away smaller-format 2x3 Graflex, today its hot stuff.

As an alternative, you might consider the motorized Mamiya 6x8 back made for RB67 (totally compatible with your Press G mount). The actual negative size of the Graflex 6x9 back is closer to 6x8 than 6x9, so you don't lose any film real estate at all. The Mamiya 6x8 backs hold film as flat (or flatter) than the late lever-wind Graflex, and are fairly easy to find. Film autoloads to frame 1, then motor winds to each next frame when you push a button after exposure (or you can use the manual wind knob).

 

 

Or, look into a lever-wind Horseman "8 EXP" 6x9 back. Very slightly wider housing than Graflex or Mamiya RB backs. These were the highest quality Graflok mount 6x9 backs ever made, keeping film as flat as the larger S-shaped Mamiya M-mount Press backs. Today very iniexpensive because they need a slight modification to fit hand cameras like Mamiya Press or Graflex XL. You need to unscrew and remove (or simply file down a bit) the Horseman left hand light baffle, and make some notches in its slide locks. Japanese eBay sellers always have these available for approx $79 apiece.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by orsetto

Oops, sorry: the modifications are made to the Mamiya G plate, not the Horseman back itself. The little raised locating bar on the G plate, held down with three screws, is removed and the bottom (unfinished) surface filed down a bit to make the bar thinner (otherwise it pushes the Horseman away from the film plane on that side). The silver slides the back latches onto must also be filed/modified slightly for a Horseman back to fit correctly. I lost my bookmark to the site that had complete pics and instructions for the mods, but IIRC the modifications don't affect use with Graflex or Mamiya backs: all three flavors should be interchangeable after the mods.

That's excellent information orsetto, thanks

 

"Starwars" superfans, geez you can't believe it, destroying our much loved photo gear, what the heck?

 

That reminds me of ornate antique sewing machines being trashed to save the table with draws to use as phone tables in hallways. Utter sacrilege

 

I think I'll order one of those 6x8 motorized backs as another piece of equipment for my customized Press kit. I wasn't aware they were compatible with the G adapter.

The G adapter was quite deliberate, I transplanted it, bellows and all, from a rough body. The bellows and G adapter however were still in good condition.

 

Compactness is what I had in mind for this camera, plus trying to achieve less weight to carry around. The Graflex red handle 6x9 back combined with the G adapter saves 220grams in weight over the "S" Mamiya back attached to it's "M" plate

 

It looks like I'm faced with the daunting prospect of repairing my 6x9 red handle back if I want to keep using it. It's also one of those that lack the needle rollers that assist film flatness, which perhaps is another reason why they're scarcely listed. Expensive too, the defective one I bought. Wrongly described but I decided to keep it because it seems there's not many left

 

The Horseman back, I know about, and the modifications necessary to fit to the G adapter. I considered it but will try all other alternatives first, included having patience waiting for listings for good 6x9 Graflex backs to appear. There is an abundance of 6x7 backs, one of which I bought as a stop gap, but I much prefer 6x9

Apologies for getting your hopes up: it appears my recommendation of the motorized 6x8 back as being totally compatible with the Press G plate was in error. When I saw how affordable they've become earlier today, I started looking further into it for myself. It seems only the original pre-1974 RB backs are totally compatible as-is: all the later Pro S and Pro SD backs require some modifications. The Pro S mods mostly concern defeating the added dark slide and wind-on safety interlocks: since the G plate has no way to interact with these features, they must either be permanently defeated or we need to somehow trick the back when first mounting it (this works on actual Graflex camera bodies, but not sure if "tricking" the Pro S backs succeeds the same way on a G plate).

 

I haven't yet been able to nail down what precisely needs to be done to ProSD backs like the motorized 6x8. In old posts here and elsewhere, Mamiya Press fanatic and legendary modifier Tony Sansone cryptically mentions physical mods to the ProSD magazines (not the G plate) are required, hinting there may be something beyond simply defeating the safety interlocks. But he doesn't offer specifics, nobody else seems to have posted on ProSD<>G Plate, and these days Tony is only theoretically reachable thru his wine company website (it isn't clear if he's still involved with the Press system).

 

I still think the ProSD 6x8 back has great potential to replace the troublesome Graflex backs, its simply a matter of finding out exactly what minor mods are required to use it. As you noted, most Graflex backs have poor film flatness and are repair-resistant due to riveted plastic construction (not to mention parts availability issues). When they started selling for silly money recently I sold off a couple 6x7 Graflok backs I had collecting dust from a bulk lot package deal: it helped pay for my new-to-me Universal Press body.

Edited March 7, 2019 by orsetto

Rare? Hardly. Keep on looking. I just took a look on ebay. com, found > 60 Graflex roll holders on offer, some for 2x3 cameras, others for 4x5. Some lever wind, some knob wind.

 

The later Graflex Rapid-Vance roll holders all have lever advance. They are color coded. Red lever, RH-8, 2 1/4 x3 1/4. Blue lever, RH-10, 2 1/4 x 2 3/4. Green lever, RH-12, 2 1/4 x 2 1/4.

 

The levers are part of the insert. RH shells have pin rollers at each end of the gate. These are supposed to improve film flatness. RH-8 shells, not the others, have slightly shortened gates to make room for the rollers.

 

Inserts and shells of all vintages of Graflex roll holders interchange. I've seen lever wind inserts in older shells without pin rollers, knob wind inserts in RH shells with pin rollers. An early shell with lever wind insert is now on eBay. To add to the fun, late shells with old-style designations on the back have pin rollers.

 

I have a 2x3 Linhof Super Rolex roll holder to fit 4x5 Graflok backs. The OP can't use this, but the manual lists 6x7 and 6x9 Super Rollex backs to fit 2x3 Graflok backs. I don't have a Toyo roll holder, do have the manual. Toyo made 6x7 and 6x9 roll holders that fit 2x3 Graflok backs.

 

Mercury Camera published a long discussion of film holders for 2x3 cameras. Name notwithstanding, it is incomplete. See Complete Guide to Graflok 23 Backs – Mercury Camera

 

Orsetto, don't agree with your comment about a collectible frenzy for everything Graflex incomprehensible. There's no frenzy visible on ebay.com

Rare? Hardly. Keep on looking. I just took a look on ebay. com, found > 60 Graflex roll holders on offer, some for 2x3 cameras, others for 4x5. Some lever wind, some knob wind.

 

Yes, rare: I just ran the same search and came up with the same >60 items you did. Of those >60 pieces, only ONE matches the exact item kmac is looking for, and it clearly has parts missing. 95% of the Graflex roll film backs currently available on eBay are 6x7 format, and/or knob wind with flatness issues, or permanently bonded to 4x5 adapter plates. kmac is looking ONLY for the final RH8 (lever-wind 6x9 format) backs with improved rollers, standard roll camera mount, and intact color-coordinated innards. For awhile now, these have been scarce or in poor condition, and usually more expensive than the better-made Mamiya or Horseman equivalent. Nobody would bother with modifying those to fit Mamiya Press cameras if the "good" Graflex version was at all plentiful.

 

don't agree with your comment about a collectible frenzy for everything Graflex incomprehensible. There's no frenzy visible on ebay.com

 

Perhaps "collectible frenzy" was a poor choice of words. How about "wave of misguided people with buyers remorse spiking resell prices on common/decent Graflex gear to exorbitant levels out of all proportion to historic demand". eBay is fluid, prices fluctuate in cycles: luck, timing, voodoo and specific item you're searching all come into play. I just sold two prehistoric Graflex Graphic knob-wind "23 on 4x5" backs for what I consider silly money (a couple years ago I'd have been lucky to get $15). Hopefully the Graflex trend shifts downward again for some pieces: i.e. theres no flashes or 6x9 lever wind backs anymore, but quite a glut of picked-over cameras now at unsustainable asks).

Edited March 7, 2019 by orsetto

Rare? Hardly. Keep on looking. I just took a look on ebay. com, found > 60 Graflex roll holders on offer, some for 2x3 cameras, others for 4x5. Some lever wind, some knob wind.

This is the back I'd like to buy (below), the one with pin rollers for film flatness, but I haven't seen one listed on eBay in the 18 months I've been searching. The one in my OP photo is the only red handle 6x9 I've seen, I bought it, but it lacks pin rollers and was defective from the get go. I'm facing the fact there's no more available for sale and I'm now looking at trying to repair the one I have

 

It seems they are rare. That Mercury link explains "They are definitely less common than the "23" Graphic 6×9 backs as well as all of the Graflex 6×7 backs"

 

 

Graflex RH-8:

 

http://mercurycamera.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Graflex-RH-8-1-1.jpgThese are later backs that are lever wind, and usually contain the pin rollers to hold the film flatter. These are high quality backs. They are definitely less common than the “23 Graphic” 6×9 backs as well as all of the Graflex 6×7 backs.

Found this at a fairly recent (2017) thread over on another forum: seems like the Mamiya RB 6x8 electric back will definitely fit the Press G plate. Looking thru the history of owner Balpin, it appears he built himself a custom Super 23 with G plate instead of the usual embedded M, but has mentioned several times the G plate itself is stock (ordinary optional G plate sold for the Universal). So its reasonable to infer the Mamiya RB 6x8 ProSD back shown mounts in the same manner as the older ProS (from yet another thread, re using ProS backs on generic Graflok plates):

 

"RB67 Pro-S holder fits the camera - but the safety interlock that prevents double exposure must be disabled. This is done by pulling the dark slide out a fraction (about 3 or 4 mm) until you see the small triangle cut into it. It will not pull out, however, until you depress a small lever (at the bottom of the rectangular bit that fits into the camera back) with your fingernail. Also, until you pull the darkslide out a little, it will not fit on the camera. Once it is in place on the Graflok and the locking bars are shut, the darkslide can no longer be pushed fully home - the body of the camera stops it - so the safety features of the back are disabled and you don't have to pay attention to this anymore. To wind on to the next exposure, you must move the small lever directly under the end of the wind-on lever so that a red tab appears in the winder window - it will not wind on without doing this."

 

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by orsetto

That's helpful orsetto. There's quite a few 6x8 electric backs listed for sale. I'll get one and have a go at getting it to work as per those instructions

Today, the flash guns alone go for $500+, driven by insane demand from truly demented 30-50 y/o Peter Pans who simply MUST rip them apart to make "authentic" light saber props for their Star Wars cosplay.

 

While I'm equally baffled that hordes of overgrown children idolise a series of 2nd rate Sci-Fi fairy tales, I'm almost as baffled, as I'm sure those cosplay fans are, that anyone would still want to use a bit of old aluminium tube to hold an extremely short-lived light bulb.

 

Anybody would think the speedlight had never been invented.

Destroying thousands of Graflex flashes for silly SW cosplay bragging rights tears a hole in our archives of historic photography gear. Its the principle of the thing: aside from the rare one-off special need for the blinding blast of a large Edison-base bulb, of course no one is actually using these flashes to take photos anymore. That doesn't mean they should now be considered fair game for "flash genocide": imagine if this attitude spread to other iconic "no longer practical" antiques. What if these same dimwits were ripping apart 1966 Mustangs to make "authentic" copies of Luke Skywalker's Land Speeder, or Philco Predicta televisions to make "authentic" Death Star Command Consoles?

 

The flash is a large (if impractical) factor in pride of ownership. One buys a Graflex today to use as a portable or inexpensive 4x5 or roll film view camera, and to hack around with lenses that can't be deployed easily on any other camera. In day to day use, no, the flash doesn't enter into it. But between projects, when its just sitting in the house, it should have a proper flash on it. A Nikon F without a flash is still an iconic Nikon F. Ditto a Hasselblad 500cm, Rolleiflex, or Leica. The Graflex press cameras, OTOH, were almost never seen in their working heyday without their signature baroque flash handles and reflectors attached. Stripped of the flash, they're a bit lonely and pathetic-looking. Like Hardy without Laurel.

This is the back I'd like to buy (below), the one with pin rollers for film flatness, but I haven't seen one listed on eBay in the 18 months I've been searching. The one in my OP photo is the only red handle 6x9 I've seen, I bought it, but it lacks pin rollers and was defective from the get go. I'm facing the fact there's no more available for sale and I'm now looking at trying to repair the one I have

 

It seems they are rare. That Mercury link explains "They are definitely less common than the "23" Graphic 6×9 backs as well as all of the Graflex 6×7 backs"

 

Y'know, its a real shame that camera shows have dried up and blown away.

 

One of the problems with buying used Graflex roll holders is that inserts have often been swapped between backs. At shows, I used to find knob wind inserts in RH (so marked, and with pin rollers) backs, lever wind inserts in old style backs without pin rollers and, yes, know wind inserts in late old-style backs with pin rollers.

 

What you really want is a shell with pin rollers. The type of insert is much less important.

 

If it still works (should) this https://1drv.ms/b/s!AggQfcczvHGNkGG_P2z8Qiyc8Qo- link will take you to a set of links to all sorts of LF related pages. The roll holders sections has links to Linhof and Toyo roll holder user guides. A 6x9 Toyo holder should fit a 2x3 Graphic with Graflok back, and they're around.

One buys a Graflex today to use as a portable or inexpensive 4x5 or roll film view camera, and to hack around with lenses that can't be deployed easily on any other camera

 

Speak for yourself.

 

In Graflex-speak, "Graflex" means SLR. These beasts are effectively one lens cameras. Graphics (press camera, not view cameras) have only one generally usable movement, front rise.

 

I bought a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic to be able to shoot 2x3. That camera is a bit hostile to wide angle lenses. The shortest relatively easily found lens that will focus to infinity on it is the 80/6.3 Wide Field Ektar. I wanted wider, so got a Century Graphic, functionally equivalent to the 2x3 Crown Graphic. The shortest lens that can be used on it is the 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon. I have one. also other w/a lenses that can't be used on my Speed.

 

About barrel lenses on Speed Graphics. On the one hand, a Speed's focal plane shutter makes using a barrel lens easy. On the other, for most applications -- I ignore just screwing around with barrel lenses and lenses in dead shutters even though I've done that -- lenses in shutter are just as good. I have a number of barrel lenses with adapters to fit #1 shutters. Adapters aren't cheap, make sense only if several lenses can share one. A lens in shutter is usually less expensive than the equivalent lens in barrel and an adapter.

 

I have only three lenses in barrel that work on a 2x3 Speed and can't be replaced by lenses in shutter. 1.75"/2.8 Elcan, which doesn't cover 2x3. 4"/2 TTH, which covers, is very heavy and is not better than a much lighter plasmat at the apertures I normally use. 12"/4 TTH telephoto, the longest lens that's comfortable on a 2x3 Speed. The TTH lenses are very uncommon, usually quite expensive.

A couple years ago, I downloaded the very comprehensive PDF report you posted regarding the great many lenses (of every vintage) you've adapted and/or experimented with. An incredible resource: there aren't many other concentrated collections of user info that so exhaustively break down performance facets, shutter compatibility, particular Graflex lens board and bed considerations, etc. etc. I can't find my bookmark to your PDF or I would link to it in this thread: seems as good a place as any for people to discover it.

 

Back on topic, am I reading your last post correctly: that a Toyo/Horseman film insert would fit and operate properly in a Graflex pin-roller back shell? That might be be a great hybrid solution for kmac. Horseman complete back prices have cratered in the past decade, form $300 to under $100, making this a more economically viable option now than it might have been then.

Here's the link: http://www.galerie-photo.com/telechargement/dan-fromm-6x9-lenses-v2-2011-03-29.pdf

 

Super Rollex (Horseman holders can be seen as lighter copies of Super Rollexes) and Toyo roll holders are completely incompatible with Graflex roll holders. But and however I believe they can be used on 2x3 Graphics that have Graflok backs. If the OP is fixated on using a Graflex roll holder, I think he/she/it has a severe problem. What matters is the images captured on film, not the device that held the film.

 

I don't know why the Mercury list doesn't mention Super Rollexes or Toyo roll holders.

If the OP is fixated on using a Graflex roll holder, I think he/she/it has a severe problem. What matters is the images captured on film, not the device that held the film.

 

I'm open to any and all suggestions. I ordered the Mamiya RB motorized 6x8 last night, it'll take 2-3 weeks to arrive, then the fun begins getting it to work on the Press. These backs are costing small fortunes, I thought film was phasing out, the Super Rollexes on eBay are US$175 AU$250 or more + postage for reasonable ones, and not much less for Toyo 6x9 backs

 

The Toyo looks to be a good proposition, but does it fit the Grafolk adapter back ? These Toyos come with a large plate screwed to the front of the roll holder, and once removed, will the film holder still fit my camera ? Or were some made without the large plate, in which case that's the type I should get ? (see pic)

 

Pic of Toyo without large plate attached, and appears to be very scarce as well, don't like my chances of getting one any time soon, if indeed it does fit my Press

 

 

Believe it or not, a red handle 6x9 Graflex back with pin rollers, has just come up on eBay but the seller doesn't know if it works or not and the dark slide is minus it's handle, broken off, some dark slides were made of fragile material I believe. To make matters worse, the shipping cost is out of this world (A$121.00), however the bidding price so far is only a few dollars. Not sure what to do about it, it's high risk and in the end, would be high total cost

 

I'll be back with news about fitting the 6x8 RB motorized back to the Press, and anything else I come up with regarding alternative film holders

kmac, I gave you directions for finding a Toyo roll holder user manual. Follow the directions, download the manual and read it. It will tell you how to recognize one made to fit 2x3 (6x9 in metric) Graflok backs. You don't want the 69/45, you want the plain 69.

 

Not to be a complete idiot (that's what I am, please be polite and don't tell me) or anything, but why are you so attached to your Mamiya's G-frame? It can be replaced with an M-frame, which will accept Mamiya's own roll holders.

Not to be a complete idiot (that's what I am, please be polite and don't tell me) or anything, but why are you so attached to your Mamiya's G-frame? It can be replaced with an M-frame, which will accept Mamiya's own roll holders.

 

Let's go back to the beginning. I'm customizing a Mamiya Press Standard and the original plan required compactness with 6x9 format, reducing weight plus various other changes

 

I have three Mamiya Press cameras in my collection, two of which are fitted with Mamiya "S" type film backs. One is a Super 23, the other is a Press 23 Standard, these cameras will remain as they are. The third is a Press Standard, which I decided to customize to suit my taste in a Press Camera. An exercise in vanity if you like

 

For compactness, ease of use, and reducing weight, I went for a Graflok back plate with those chrome sliding locks which are easier to manipulate than the Mamiya turning knob locks on the Mamiya back plate. Then I went for a Graflex 6x9 film back, but acquiring a good one proved to be a problem, hence my curiosity as to why they're so scarce and consequently my openness to suggestions for alternatives

 

I've researched the Toyo and my verdict is it's too large, has double stroke film winding and the plain 6x9 version may also be just as rare as the Graflex 6x9 with handle film wind

 

To try out on the camera, I've boiled the film backs down to the red handle Graflex 6x9, Mamiya motorized 6x8 and as a last resort, the Horsman 6x9. In the meantime I have a 6x7 Graflex back on the camera to get me by, and I'll keep it for the times when I want to shoot 6x7. It looks pretty neat, it's loaded with 220 160ASA, I must get off my lazy ass and expose it

 

Thanks for reminding me what you're trying to accomplish.

 

You'll be as well off with a knob wind insert in a shell with pin rollers as with a lever wind insert in a shell with pin rollers.

 

Here Graflex 23 Graphic 120 Roll Film Back Holder | eBay is a lever wind insert in an old-style shell with pin rollers.

 

Here Graflex 6 x 8 cm Roll Film Back RH8, for 120 film, 8 exposures is a knob wind insert in an old-style shell with pin rollers.

 

Here Graphic RH8 120 8 Exp 6x9 Roll Film Back For 2 1/4x3 1/4 Cameras w/ Graflok Back | eBay is a knob wind insert in an RH-8 a shell. Inside of shell not shown but RH-8 shells have pin rollers. You have to know what to look for.

I went for a Graflok back plate with those chrome sliding locks which are easier to manipulate than the Mamiya turning knob locks on the Mamiya back plate.

 

Yep. The more I use my "new to me" Mamiya Universal with standard M plate and flat S-shape backs, the more I'm understanding why the optional "G" plate is such a hot expensive accessory on eBay. Its pricey not just because its rare, but because Mamiya's circular M locks are an utter joke in the field.

 

What a ridiculous, klutzy, time-consuming kluge the M mount is. It takes anywhere from one to ten minutes for me to wrestle a film back into the slots, depending on luck. How the hell wedding pros managed this without cursing and blowing the ring shot is beyond me: its actually way faster and easier to release the entire M mount from the camera shell, with the magazine back still attached to it. Of course, that entails buying a separate M mount for each magazine. Curiously, non-film-back M-mount accessories like the ground glass hood snap on and off with ease, apparently due to their more tapered mounting tabs.

 

Assuming one can pull together a few good Graflok type magazines with flat film positioning, I can see the advantages. The only drawback is eye position: I can't get mine close enough to the viewfinder with anything thicker than the M backs. Mamiya once offered an extension eyepiece tube to solve this exact problem, but I've never once seen it on eBay or in used camera shops.

Assuming one can pull together a few good Graflok type magazines with flat film positioning, I can see the advantages. The only drawback is eye position: I can't get mine close enough to the viewfinder with anything thicker than the M backs. Mamiya once offered an extension eyepiece tube to solve this exact problem, but I've never once seen it on eBay or in used camera shops.

 

I've seen only one for sale, in 2018, but I think it was a "Japan only" sale, I could be wrong, but it wasn't the right one for a Mamiya Press Standard, and I wasn't interested in it for my Super 23 because my Super has the original M back plate taking the "S" type Mamiya film holders and I don't intend to change that configuration. Therefore I never did any translation from Japanese to English nor do I know what the final bid was, more than the same weight in gold I should imagine. For my customized Press, I might use one of my spare black 65mm viewfinders clipped into the top flash shoe where it normally goes, also there is enough recess in the front of those viewfinders to fit some neat homemade masks for different focal length lenses

 

Photo.net Link ...

Adapting Other Lenses to Mamiya Press Cameras

Thanks for reminding me what you're trying to accomplish.

 

You'll be as well off with a knob wind insert in a shell with pin rollers as with a lever wind insert in a shell with pin rollers.

 

Here Graflex 23 Graphic 120 Roll Film Back Holder | eBay is a lever wind insert in an old-style shell with pin rollers.

 

Here Graflex 6 x 8 cm Roll Film Back RH8, for 120 film, 8 exposures is a knob wind insert in an old-style shell with pin rollers.

 

Here Graphic RH8 120 8 Exp 6x9 Roll Film Back For 2 1/4x3 1/4 Cameras w/ Graflok Back | eBay is a knob wind insert in an RH-8 a shell. Inside of shell not shown but RH-8 shells have pin rollers. You have to know what to look for.

 

Thanks for the links. The first one I'm interested in. I have my heart set on handle wind. I could have bought any number of knob wind backs if I wanted to go that way

 

The "RH" info is very useful though, I've only learned about that in recent weeks, they have pin rollers. What does the "RH" stand for, "Roller Holder" perhaps ?

 

In the past, I've cursed sellers for not showing a photo of inside the outer case to see if there was pin rollers or not. Now I know to look for the "RH"

The "RH" info is very useful though, I've only learned about that in recent weeks, they have pin rollers. What does the "RH" stand for, "Roller Holder" perhaps ?

 

In the past, I've cursed sellers for not showing a photo of inside the outer case to see if there was pin rollers or not. Now I know to look for the "RH"

 

Roll Holder. Graflex Inc's nomenclature is usually more confusing than that.

 

I've cursed sellers for that reason too. Thing is, and don't forget it, some old-style shells have pin rollers. I have at least one such.