good starter plate camera?

ok, Christmas is coming and I need to find a present for myself :)

 

...and really getting into the whole folder thing lately and I'm wondering about a small plate camera. What would be

your recommendation for a good not-too-expensive light weight plate camera? I'm thinking 9x12, but would consider

other sizes. (9x12 seems nice because if I don't want to use Efke I could cut down 4x5 film... and it's almost as

large as 4x5 too). A movement or two would be nice as well... and easy to find plates.

 

Any thoughts, comments, example shots would be greatly appreciated!

 

PS I already have a Speed Graphic, but want something smaller and lighter... and of course I love old completely

obsolete cameras.

I have (and have used) a Zeiss Ikon Maximar. You can't go wrong with this popular, "prosumer" plate camera. Most

contemporary plate film and rollfilm adapters fit, it has double-bellows extension for close focusing and the

build-quality is pretty high.

 

In the end, the most important thing is the condition of the camera (lens, shutter and bellows)... if everything

is all right I don't think that you will be disappointed with any decent model regardless of the manufacturer --

although Agfa cameras are pretty notorious and often have verde gris issues. Look for lenses faster than f/8 (or

f/5.6) and you will automatically avoid the low-end consumer gear.

Most important thing is a supply of plate holders! Much much harder to find than the camera.

 

The Kodak (Nagel) Recomar 33 is a very fine 9x12 plate camera, and the plate holders are possible to find with patience. I think they fit quite a few other plate cameras. These holders also take film without film sheaths -- a big advantage. Camera has front rise/fall and swing. Very good lens, highly reliable Compur shutter.

 

Another approach is a Pony Premo. Some are single-extension, others are double extension. Front rise/fall, back tilt is all the movements. A working rig is far lighter than the 9x12 plate cameras. The existing lens or shutter may be kaput, but the threaded bushing on the front standard will take many better lens/shutters for 3A Pocket Kodaks. If you shim the ground glass, you can use standard 4x5 film holders. Otherwise you'll need Premo plate holders with film sheaths. (Plate holders were not universal.)

 

I have one each of the above, and while the Recomar 33 is the more capable and quality camera, the practicality and light weight of my No. 4 Pony Premo endears it to me more.

The more popular ones are the Zeiss Maximar and the Voigtlander Avus (Skopar lens). But, my personal favorite and

on my "must have list" is the Certo CertoTrop. It had bayonet off interchangeable lens/shutters and was produced

until 1941 so it had all the "modern" features. Already have a Kodak Recomar 18 (the 33 is the bigger model)

produced by Dr. Nagel Werk and they are good. If you want compact get the Kawee (also known as the Patent

Etui). Nothing thinner than that one. There are a whole bunch of these things so the "good" list could go on and on.

Exakta made some under the Ihagee brand. One was named Duplex because some models had a focal plane

shutter besides the usual one.

 

In any case you want one of the newer models of whatever you are buying so that means getting one with a rim set

shutter and not the dial set type. The rim set has the speed numbers on the ring around the shutter. A dial set has

the round speed dial above the lens. And go for a decent lens which means anything f4.5 or better. The only

alternate would be an f6.8 lens which would be a Goerz Dagor in disguise usually written Doppel Anastigmat on the

lens. Anything with a good lens will almost certainly have the double extension bellows as standard.

 

The best way to use these cameras is to get a roll film back. Usually made by Rada or Suydam and some others.

 

Oh, and look at the aperture scale. Some of these lenses are convertible. The scale has two sets of f stops on it.

Unscrew the front (or back?) lens and it coinverts to a longer focus lens like a telephoto. Some of these lenses do it

anyway even if the scale is not double. I recall someone trying that with a Skopar lens and it was "acceptable" in

image quality.

Voigtlander Avus gets my vote, have 2 Avuses? in 9x12 and 1 6.5x9 and a Voigtlander Vag in 6.5x9

Sorry, Mark, I don't have any suggestions in answer to your question. Just have to say, after scrolling through endless queries about 'Which is better, the DX30 or the D30X?', the title of your post made my day!

 

Hope you have a very Happy Christmas!

Hi, Mark My five bob's worth would be to stay away from the Big Name stuff like the Zeiss Maximar,

Ngael/Kodak Recomar, Voigtlander Avus & Bergheil. Why? Well, they're all very collectable, that's why, so the

prices of a good condition working "user" model will be way above what you should pay for a less-famed camera with

equal optical and mechanical attributes.

 

Plate cameras are strange beasts. Generally, they all look much the same, with maybe the exception of the AGFA

Standards (which somebody has already correctly mentioned as having frozen gunge problems, especially on their

helix focussing) and the KW Patent Etuis. Avoid those too. The AGFAs are real B******ds to ungunge, and the

Etuis are coveted as examples of engineering minitiurisation so they go for big $$$s.

 

Your best bet would be to go for an "unnamed" model, of which there were many made during the 1930s.

Photographic dealers round the world back then clearly did deals with this or that German manufacturer to make

Brand X cameras, unmarked but not necessarily with basic trimmings. So you can find such high-spec cameras

going on Fleabay for relative peanuts, with lenses like the Schneider Xenar f4.5, rim Compur ahutter, double

extension bellows, rise-and-fall adjustment, spirit level, dual lantern VF and sports VF - the only thing is the lack of a

maker's name. Possibly these were made by Welta, Wirgin or Ihagee - but we'll likely never know. The main thing

is that they can have all the fruit, bells-and-whistles, be still working just fine, but go for a song because of the lack

of a maker's name. You clearly want a "user" rather than a "displayable" with a well-known name, so go for the

bits and bobs rather than the Name On The Top. (Pete In Perth)

 

PS - I should also mention that I have a Kodak Recomar 33, a Zeiss Donata, three AGFA Standards (two of which

have permanently stuck focussing), a GOMZ Fotokor - plus several "Brand X" jobs too. But then again I'm an avid

collector ..............

thanks all! I'll keep my eyes open... looks like the biggest problem is getting one with plate holders.

 

Peter, how do you like the Fotokor? As an hopeless FSU addict, I had already been thinking one of those (just to add to my overall FSU frustration I guess).

 

Mark, yup, digital is completely boring at this point... I'm not going back to digital till either film more than doubles in price and full frame digitals are $500.

Hi, Mark My Fotokor is a late one, probably made about 1939, so the GOMZ factory had plenty of experience making them by then. It's definately a bit cruder and more agricultural than say, my Zeiss Donata or Kodak/Nagel Recomar 33, but it's got all the same bits-and-bobs that they have, like double-extension bellows, rise-and-fall, spirit level, dual "lantern" and sports VFs.

 

The f4.5 13.5 cm "Ortagoz" lens is reputedly excellent, although the apertures are a bit strange for the late 1930s - ie f4.5/f6.3/f9/f12.5/f18/f25/f36. Never saw that sequence before!

 

The GOMZ-made leaf shutter is IMHO the camera's weak point, being very basic, with only B, T 1/25, 1/50 & 1/100 sec speeds. I guess most of these Fotokors were used for those beloved Commy political pics of Worker-Of-The-Month Comrade Ivan at the tractor factory, alongside the Millionth Tractor produced, so a more ambitious speed range wasn't needed. Princelle has some interesting background on the development of these shutters in his "Russian Cameras" book, by the way.

 

One other interesting aspect is the sheer number of these Fotokors produced. If Princelle is to be believed, and I cannot see any reason why he shouldn't seeing he's the No 1 Man on FSU stuff, there were about a million made between 1930 and 1940. However, with that huge volume you'd expect them to be as common in the FSU as Box Brownies are in the USA - and they're not. That may be because most Fotokors were allocated for "official" propaganda use to governmental agencies and departments, and therefore they stayed within the "system" or disappeared during the Great Patriotic War.

 

Hope these ramblings of mine are of some help, mate! (Pete In Perth)

Hey Marc,

 

If you get your stock paper and film in 5x7, you will get two shots for the 9x12 (3 1/2 x 4 3/4) and cut in four for the 6.5x9 (2 1/2 x 3 1/2). You can have fun with all kinds of film and paper negatives and direct positive paper photos too. So get a plate camera of EACH size to maximize the fun quotient ! I like the Zeiss Maximar myself. Here are two of the 6 1/2 x 9 for making medium format stereo.<div></div>

P.S.

 

Better yet...Get two of each!