Discussion in 'Portraits and Fashion' started by Wilmarco Imaging, Sep 29, 2018.
I can see that. I suppose a sort of social amusia.
Hmm... I'm a female, but I
don't mind being called a
girl. Makes me feel young
Boy, Is more needed to prove my point?
I understand the theme to be a "girl" on the beach so here is another one with my model/friend T. this summer
The consistent association of “girls” with titillation makes a kind of sense, though an unfortunate kind. The open book represents not just a sexual cliche but a sensibility discernible from revealing pics, icon included.
Yes Fred, very feminine, very charming and well aware of her sensuality and appeal. I don't think she regards it in any way as titillation, both photos were un-posed. However, some may see it so, though others certainly will not.
I wasn’t questioning or discussing the woman’s femininity. I was discussing my impression of your body of work’s portrayals, not the women themselves. Please let’s not confuse the two, which are very different matters.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this were the case. Nevertheless, I think it’s that for many of your viewers. Thankfully, how the model or subject of a photo sees and interprets the photo and how the photographer sees and interprets the photo may or may not carry some extra weight but certainly does not necessarily dictate how I or any viewer sees and interprets it. I made no claim as to how the woman portrayed regards the photo and however she may regard it is not necessarily more influential than how anyone else does. I’ve made enough photos of people to know how differently they may see themselves and the photos than I do and than other viewers do. I even find that, sometimes (repeat, sometimes) the person pictured is less likely to be in touch with the portrayal than others for obvious reasons having to do with objectivity and other factors of involvement.
No Fred, you were not, but it is a key feature of the work and I am confident that others will be sensitive to this and the other qualities I mention, and will continue to judge the work accordingly, as in the past.
For reasons that I suspect I know, and others possibly too, you have returned to PN under an alias, do please ensure that it is more than a shadow of your previous self.
What I see as a key feature of the work and the greater body of work is one man’s specific and narrow take on femininity. Many photos of people, my own included, say as much about the photographer and the photographer’s view as they do about other things. They may also say something about the subject’s own view of him or herself and I have no reason to believe your photos don’t do all these things. Thankfully, when a photo is shared with a viewer, a viewer is allowed and might be welcome to react to all these views as well as giving his or her own view on the photo and the handling of the subjects or content of the photo. Photo criticism is not usually directed by the photographers of the photos being viewed, though in some settings, including that of PN, having the photographer weigh in can be an added feature in discussions of photos and can help provide insights into the photographer’s own understanding of the work. These discussions which can make evident varying tastes and understandings can be of great value.
in the same paragraph: " Many photos of people, my own included, say as much about the photographer and the photographer’s view as they do about other things" ... nothing changes!
PN is special in that it allows for more self critical input from photographers and that can be enlightening, and not always in the ways we would expect. No matter what you or I may say about our own photos and no matter how much insight our own words may add, we are not ultimately the final say on what our photos mean or stand for. As strongly as any photographer believes in and may voice his own perspective on his work, sharing ithe photos means giving up control of the many and varied reactions there will be to them. I do think that, sometimes, the more power we give to certain criticisms, the more that may say about our own view of our work and that can even sometimes call into questions certain protestations to the contrary. A viewer’s reaction to a photo can be as telling about the viewer as it is about the photo, and I know that’s the case with my own viewing of photos. A photographer’s reactions to viewer response can also be quite telling.
Don't call me a "boy" 'kay? Nothing to do with "political correctness". Would you actually call a picture of a man "Boy on Beach"?
Let's dial it back a bit - Dietrich singing The Boys in the Backroom, The Boys in Company C, Boys Night Out, Boys in the Hood, BoyToys e.g. Pickup trucks, Hot rods, Motorbikes, Snowmobiles, UTVs, powertools, etc. A compliment - being "one of the boys", Boy meets Girl and so on ad absurdum. An accepted language convention in regard to both sexes - even today when there are more distinctions. Nobody gonna convince anyone on this argument. Heck, there's even a student who chose "Your Majesty" as his personal pronoun.
Dietrich sang The Boys in The Back Room in Destry Rides Again in ... 1939, a mere 19 years after women got the right to vote in the U.S. and a quarter of a century before the Civil Rights Act took effect. Ahh, yes, those were the days. But it’s good to know the cultural reference points of those who still think of women as girls. By all means, though, let’s dial it back, right after we make anachronistic references to the good old days when men were boys. Listen to the song carefully some time and you may get some idea of what Dietrich was actually singing about, not to mention the persona she was creating for herself which was a far cry from the portrayals of a couple of these girls on the beach.
Maybe Dietrich summed it up well when she said,
After all that has been said, I still think that "girl on the beach" should have a "female" as a subject!
[QUOTE="Sandy Vongries,.......... Heck, there's even a student who chose "Your Majesty" as his personal pronoun.[/QUOTE] must have been Cristiano Ronaldo
Is that one of those sea lions?
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