Getting out there finally. Are my old images useful?

<p>Hi All, I've signed up to modelmayhem, because, well, I don't have friends to shoot anymore; everyone I know is a lawyer, accountant, married, or otherwise not interested.</p>

<p>I've uploaded some of my old photos, in an effort to attract new models/actors/dancers. Am I doing myself a service or disservice here by showing my old images?</p>

<p>http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=1090844</p>

<p>On modelmayhem, I've had 2 models who want to work with me. That's a good start. But I also have a bunch of photographers saying my work is crap, or old, or boring. So I'm not sure if I should be showing my old work?</p>

<p>Suggestions, please and thank you?</p>

<p>Shawn</p>

 

<p>I would say that if you want people to see you in a certain way you should make sure that's what they see. If you don't care, show them everything. On the internet you can control your image to a certain extent. If something about it is attracting attention of a type you don't want, fix that, I'd say. Think of your visible photos as your portfolio, because that's what they are. Trim it up to be an effective presentation of how you want to be perceived.</p>

<p>Thanks Michael. I don't edit myself. I prefer to show my warts and shining images. I suppose today in an e-world that might not be such a good thing. Everyone can click on a filter after taking a smartphone pic.</p>

<p>Shawn</p>

<blockquote>

<p>On modelmayhem, I've had 2 models who want to work with me. That's a good start. But I also have a bunch of photographers saying my work is crap, or old, or boring.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>So I take it you're going to control the opinions you received from other photographers you know nothing about not even whether they're making real money?</p>

<p>You decide what is best of what you think is best in your work and not take advice from people you don't really know. That basically applies to the entire internet. The internet has a way of making its participants feel like the entire world cares and is paying attention which couldn't be farther from the truth.</p>

<p>The person who decides on what is best in their work is going to rely on the same person to make those decisions when another party thinks those decisions are valuable enough to pay money for.</p>

<p>If you like pandering to imagined market forces you'ld better be REAL GOOD at it and consistent otherwise stick to what you know, Shawn.</p>

<p>Tim - I am consistent and capable of professional and beautiful work. I don't doubt myself. Just sharing what I've heard from people I don't know.</p>

<p>Shawn</p>

<p>If you don't want to change why are you asking if or what you should change?<br>

Confused!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Tim - I am consistent and capable of professional and beautiful work. I don't doubt myself. Just sharing what I've heard from people I don't know.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I didn't say you doubted yourself. I'm saying you're putting too much faith and authority in stranger's comments you read on the internet. It appears the reason you posted this topic is due to doubts you may have on the efficacy both personally and professionally posting worts and all gallery of your images.</p>

<p>Not sure. Or maybe you're just wanting to hear other's experience posting to Modelmayhem. But do you really think you'll get the whole truth that includes both good and bad. Many folks like to come across as winners to strangers on the internet so they tend to omit or gloss over details that may point to their poor judgement. </p>

<p>You raise an interesting point on whether it's a good idea to post images to "well known" photography sites in an already saturated market where maybe all the attention you'll ever get is the shallow comments you've received.</p>

<p>Or maybe that's a marketing ploy by the staff of Modelmayhem to garner sympathy for the newer seasoned photographer getting back into the game. Good or bad at least you're getting attention.</p>

<p>You wouldn't believe how many people don't care about my photos until I post them to an FB site that's not about photography. Like! Like! Like! Like! ...oh just shutup will ya'?!</p>

<p>Well let's be frank here. Clearly I'm not very confident after having just a few photographers say my work is out of date or sucks.</p>

<p>But I've never been one for 'likes'. I'm not even on Facebook or other social media.</p>

<p>I would never bash someone's work; if I had something negative to say, it would be constructive.</p>

<p>I've met with a couple of MM models, and they like my work for what it is, old 90s attempts at fashion. We are going to work together, so I'm very happy.</p>

<p>I suppose I'm asking, is it more important to have a few models say they like your work, or is it more important for a bunch of unknown photographers to say you are outdated, or boring, or bad?</p>

<p>I think I know the answer to that question now, and I should just continue being me. I think. Who knows...</p>

<p>Shawn</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I suppose I'm asking, is it more important to have a few models say they like your work, or is it more important for a bunch of unknown photographers to say you are outdated, or boring, or bad?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>In my view - neither. If the models like your work enough to say "yes" to collaboration, then that's mighty useful. But their opinion as such, it's about as valid as those who say they don't like it. There are always a bunch of alpha males who loud-mouthed tell others what is right and wrong (typically with little argumentation), and no photo site will be any different. You'll always come across those brash comments.<br>

I guess the real question, and one to which you know the answer, is: does good quality work every get outdated? How important is it to me to go with the latest trends? To me, being yourself and not-so-fashionable is a better creative starting point than the other way around.</p>

 

<p>>>I guess the real question, and one to which you know the answer, is: does good quality work every get outdated? How important is it to me to go with the latest trends? To me, being yourself and not-so-fashionable is a better creative starting point than the other way around.</p>

<p>I think sometimes I will have a model, and sometimes a model will say 'no', based on my style. I don't think I'm particularly fashionable right now, but I don't let that stop me from being me. </p>

<p>I'm an old fart now, 46 years old. When I started with PDN I was young, in university, confident, attractive and in-tune with the day.</p>

<p>I'm learning that people who want to be models are above the iphone/instagram thing, so that's good.</p>

<p>But I'm still an old guy who wants to be in bed sleeping long before the models want to go out shooting.</p>

<p>I feel like models who like my work want me to meet with them and chase them around while they live their lives on a Friday night. When I was young, that was good. I was always willing to do Nan Goldin shots. But now, as an old person, I'm not so sure I can chase models around anymore.</p>

<p>Shawn</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I feel like models who like my work want me to meet with them and chase them around while they live their lives on a Friday night. When I was young, that was good. I was always willing to do Nan Goldin shots. But now, as an old person, I'm not so sure I can chase models around anymore.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's not being old, that's being out of shape, I assume from leading a sedentary lifestyle. And 46 is still pretty young now that life expectancy has increased to a little over 80. In fact I have a retired friend who's a bit of character who likes to walk around town collecting aluminum cans and picking up lose change while recovering from back surgery and fighting and beating pneumonia at the age of 92. I've seen him kick open a stuck door like he was 17. Didn't affect him. He just likes to keep moving.</p>

<p>I'm 56 but still feel and look young compared to others my age who enjoyed too much sun, booze, drugs and tobacco throughout their lives. For some reason I've been way too sleepy in the past several months and it appears seasonal according to cold fronts and maybe allergens in the air. I believe I have a sleeping disorder that affects my motivation but I can't be sure. I just role with it and don't worry about it.</p>

<p>If you're getting people who like your work enough to have you along as their lifestyle photographer AND ARE YOUNG WOMEN! consider yourself VERY lucky!</p>

<p>Good luck, Shawn, but I don't think you'll need it.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>This is what one is able to do at 87 and you think 46 is old?...</p><div></div>

<p>Shawn, I think you pictures look great. At worst, they are professional level portrait/fashion work, and many have an artistic edge. So don't let anyone tell you they're not. And based on this work, I see no reason why anyone wouldn't want to work with you to create new work.<br /><br />Some of the images are showing up soft, but from the look of it I'm guessing they are bad scans and that the actual images are fine. You do need to rescan those and repost them.<br /><br />As for thinking you're old, I'm 55, so you're way too young to play that card. And as far as alleged models making demands that you meet up with them too late at night, that's not their call. As the photographer, you are the employer, the are the employee, even if they're not necessarily being paid. The photographer is in charge. So you tell them when and where they need to show up if they want to have the opportunity to work with you. They are the ones who are apparently trying to get a break and end up as professional models. You have a portfolio of work that shows you're already there. If they behave unprofessionally they don't get that break. (Even if you're really only shooting on the side, you need to take the attitude that "the photographer" is what you do and who you are.)</p>

<p>As the old saying goes... Your only as good as your last job (photo shoot). I personally do not make it a habit of showing old work that is more than 4 years old unless it is a shot that is still selling my style. I am always looking to improve and evolve. Your photos are fine for now but start to change them as soon as you get new updated photos from your new shoots. Your style is fine, you just need to take new images on a digital camera in todays locations. Good luck.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Some of the images are showing up soft, but from the look of it I'm guessing they are bad scans and that the actual images are fine. You do need to rescan those and repost them.</p>

</blockquote>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Your photos are fine for now but start to change them as soon as you get <strong>new</strong> updated photos from your <strong>new</strong> shoots. Your style is fine, you just need to take new images on a digital camera in todays locations.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I can't help but feel the two quotes above seem like a rewording of this...</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>But I also have a bunch of photographers saying my work is <strong>crap</strong>, or <strong>old</strong>, or boring. So I'm not sure if I should be showing my <strong>old</strong> work?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p> </p>

<p>"I can't help but feel the two quotes above seem like a rewording of this...</p>

<blockquote>

<p>But I also have a bunch of photographers saying my work is <strong>crap</strong>, or <strong>old</strong>, or boring. So I'm not sure if I should be showing my <strong>old</strong> work?"<br /><br />I did not mean to say that at all. Other than the apparent scanning glitches, I think Shawn's photos are mostly fine. I have no problem with showing older photos -- a good photo is a good photo. Adding newer images is just part of the normal process.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, Craig, but don't you think Shawn has enough experience under his belt made apparent in the rest of his images to know if he needs to rescan some of them?</p>

<p>Besides he didn't ask for a critique and he may have intended them to look like that as some type of aesthetic statement.</p>

<p>Not all images have to be technically perfect as if they're made by a machine or computer. Imbuing an organic feel to images with all their idiosyncrasies is a form of artistic expression. The only time when that approach doesn't work is when that "look" is the only thing going for it and ends up drawing attention to itself. I don't see that happening in Shawn's gallery of images.</p>

<p>Thanks all. I'm still old-school with the quotes ">>"</p>

<p>>>That's not being old, that's being out of shape, I assume from leading a sedentary lifestyle.</p>

<p>Hey, I resemble that insinuation:)</p>

<p>>>I believe I have a sleeping disorder that affects my motivation but I can't be sure. I just role with it and don't worry about it.</p>

<p>I'm certainly no expert, but have known many people who have sleep+motivation problems, and everyone of them is diagnosed with a different 'thing'. As long as you are willing to roll with it, that's a good thing. Much as I am a huge fan of science, I think medical practitioners usually are just human, and are making educated guesses for all but the most obvious conditions. "Oh, that's a rash, here's a bottle of leeches; apply one a day, and drink plenty of goat urine. You'll be fine in a month."</p>

<p>>>If you're getting people who like your work enough to have you along as their lifestyle photographer AND ARE YOUNG WOMEN! consider yourself VERY lucky!</p>

<p>Age range of models who have AGREED (i.e. not actually shot them yet) ranges from 16 to 63. If/when I work with the 16 year old, I'm going to ask her to bring someone older with her, and I hopefully will have an assistant. I just wouldn't be comfortable otherwise. Actually, I'd be perfectly comfortable, on a professional level, but not at all on a "this is 2016 - the Internet rage age". I've already told her I'm 'old' and have asked for permission from her guardian/parent. She didn't reply to that, so at some point I will bring it up again, before we meet.</p>

<p>The 31 year old is an experienced model and artist, and has been very helpful, shooting her next Thursday:)</p>

<p>The 63 year old wants me to shoot her like Freud might paint her (nude), and Freud is one of my favourite artists, so I'm looking forward to that. </p>

<p>>>And based on this work, I see no reason why anyone wouldn't want to work with you to create new work.</p>

<p>Thanks Craig. The softness is a combination of 3 things: out of focus (unintentionally); bad scanning (my fault); and post-processing tilt-shift etc. (intentionally, I always wanted to be Paolo Roversi with a huge view camera lol)</p>

<p>>> So you tell them when and where they need to show up if they want to have the opportunity to work with you. They are the ones who are apparently trying to get a break and end up as professional models. </p>

<p>My biggest concern is no-shows. I work 9-5 weekdays in a great career, so that will always come first as far as when I am available goes. No getting around that...</p>

<p>However, I can only budget around $600/month for photography, and that includes equipment, studio/rental space, and all participants (models, MUAs, etc.). So if I book a studio and the model doesn't show, I'm in a pickle.</p>

<p>>>Your photos are fine for now but start to change them as soon as you get new updated photos from your new shoots. </p>

<p>That's the plan. I've already moved all my images on ModelMayhem into a folder called "1997-2005" and state very clearly in my Bio that this is older work. I also state that, while I've not worked with models for a long time, I am an AV Specialist at work and do photography, video, and audio on a daily basis, as well as having done paid jobs (on the side) for events, anniversaries, etc. for many years.</p>

<p>>>Besides he didn't ask for a critique and he may have intended them to look like that as some type of aesthetic statement.</p>

<p>No worries, Tim. I always expect critiques (and thrive on constructive ones even if the first sentence is "I think this sucks" as long as it's followed by "and here's why...blah blah blah...and that's my opinion" I'm fine with it, even if unsolicited.</p>

<p>Which I suppose brings us full circle. I suppose it makes a lot more sense to follow my own lead, and not worry so much what current 'professional' photographers think. I suppose professional photography is not much different than dish soap advertising. Everyone is going to say they are the squeaky-cleanest and their competitors can't get butter off a boiling glass.</p>

<p>Time to man up, as they say:)</p>

<p>Shawn</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Am I doing myself a service or disservice here by showing my old images?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Tim, you probably missed this part of the OP, where Shawn ASKS about his old images. If someone asks me whether he'd be doing himself a disservice by showing certain photos, and I felt they were not scanned well, I'd surely mention it if I wanted to be helpful and not just a sycophant. I applaud Craig, just as Shawn has done, for respectfully giving Shawn some constructive thoughts in response to the question Shawn asked. Craig's been nothing but generous and insightful.<br /> <br /> Shawn, I have a particular affinity for storytelling shots of people, shown in their environment, and seeming to be in the middle of life or some activity, so I particularly like the one of the two women playing pool. You've handled the second woman subtly but in a way that really adds something to the photo. I'd love to see a few more of those wider shots that are as much story as pose. And I agree that adding some newer work is a fine goal. I think a lot of potential clients like to see current work to know that you're still on the go.</p>

<p>And, hey, man, you're 46. I think that's like the new 25. The reason I think that is I'm 62 and that's the new 35! ;-)</p>